# Fuck HOAs **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 30, 2010, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hoas/545023 "2010-06-30T02:56:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hoas/545023/41 "2010-07-02T02:34:07Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > They take your money every month to ensure that there are no loud dogs and shit in the neighborhood, and that lawns are mowed up good and shit, and that the water and sewer system is all licensed up and shit, and that they have plenty of HOA letterhead. > > Some other shit too, but you get the gist. HOAs sound all super, and shit. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hoas/545023/42 "2010-07-02T04:00:33Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > This is an extreme representation of HOA’s. While I’m not a fan of local government telling me what I do or can’t do with my house or yard, I’ve seen plenty of reasonable HOA’s too, like the one I currently live under. Well, that’s one of the problems. An HOA is not a government, and usually operates on the principle of “one dollar, one vote” rather than “one person, one vote”; but it tries to act like a government in some ways. I submit this is not good for civic life. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hoas/545023/43 "2010-07-02T04:59:23Z")
I don’t see how this is the fault of anyone but the couple. I don’t care what your job is, you have to read any contracts you sign and you can’t be surprised when you get consequences for not meeting your financial obligations. There is no mental/emotional illness where you are too incapacitated to pay the rent, but are also able to live independently. If she is too messed up to put a check in the mail, she is also too messed up to go to the supermarket for food. Someone who can’t pay a bill is going to be unable to take care of her children. I’m sure the military has some kind of program for people whose spouses become severely disabled during service. When you are going abroad for a long period of time- and I don’t care if it is a pleasure trip or a deployment- there are things you have to take care of. I had to defer my student loans, empty my storage unit, make sure I had money in my bank account to cover two years of bank fees, etc. If I didn’t do these things, I shouldn’t be surprised if my loan goes into default, my storage unit auctions my stuff, and my bank account gets closed. He could have put a mentally competent relative in charge of payments, arranged with his bank to do a transfer (easily done on the Internet, which I do believe they have in in Iraq- I do it from China all the time,) payed the fees in advance, etc. There were any number of better options than “don’t pay it.” ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hoas/545023/44 "2010-07-02T09:52:30Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > There is no mental/emotional illness where you are too incapacitated to pay the rent, but are also able to live independently. If she is too messed up to put a check in the mail, she is also too messed up to go to the supermarket for food. She was avoiding the mail, television and telephone, apparently, in order to avoid getting bad news about her husband. There’s no indication, though, that she was going to the supermarket. Or that she wasn’t, for that matter. Unless you’re her shrink, you really can’t say for certain what her ailment was, or how it manifested. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hoas/545023/45 "2010-07-02T10:23:06Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > HOAs sound all super, and shit. Like anything else, they can be good or they can be bad. You normally don’t hear about the good ones and the bad ones are usually bad because they are dominated by one or two complete assholes. Said assholes often seem to be old men or women without anything better to do, probably best described as Mrs Grundy. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hoas/545023/46 "2010-07-02T10:27:18Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Can somebody explain to a foreigner what the HOA is/does etc? > > Cheers. Bad **kambucta**! [Bad!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=565037) Hey, it’s the Pit, I’m supposed to yell at people, right? Anyway, the same question was posed in GQ. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hoas/545023/47 "2010-07-02T11:57:19Z")
Jeppers… a HOA has that much power in the US? That is just nuts. We lived in a neighbourhood with a neighbour hood organisation and they want money for cutting the lawn in the estate… but auctioning the house off, because I didn’t pay the bill? No fucking way… They can go and fuck themselves in the butt. At some stage we left the grass go way, way higher then we should… no work and pay, so the grass was the least of the worries… Sure they came over and did all sort of crap, reply was: “If you want my lawn cut, do it yourself.” Sure, they can take me to court for not paying my fee, at which point the judge will make me pay, but noway are the selling MY house from under my nose for €600… and some douche makes a profit… looks pretty illegal to me. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hoas/545023/48 "2010-07-02T12:13:55Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > Jeppers… a HOA has that much power in the US? Well, no, they don’t. Or they’re not supposed to. That’s what makes this a news story. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hoas/545023/49 "2010-07-02T13:04:26Z")
In Texas they do, except in the case of active military. That’s what makes this one illegal. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hoas/545023/50 "2010-07-02T13:48:08Z")
Here’s a story from the Dallas Morning News that sheds a little more light on this incident. Apparently the guy who bought their home for $3,500, Mark DiSanti, makes a habit of buying houses foreclosed upon by HOAs [http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/city/collin/frisco/stories/062610dnmetsoldierforeclose.1c0dd01.html](http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/city/collin/frisco/stories/062610dnmetsoldierforeclose.1c0dd01.html) > [@](#): > > The Clauers missed that six-month window. So did four other homeowners in Frisco and Garland being represented by attorney Norman Ewert. > > His clients are not protected by military status. He is arguing in federal court that the Texas law is unconstitutional. > > In each of his four cases, the homeowners associations foreclosed on the homes, which were then bought by DiSanti. Certified letters sent to the homeowners went unclaimed. > > “If you don’t claim your certified letters, it can all happen without your knowledge,” Hale said. > > Ewert agreed. The law requires only that certified letters be sent, not that they be claimed, he said. > > “The person who buys the house has a duty to inform the homeowner,” Ewert argued. I also thought this was interesting. > [@](#): > > In spring 2009, Hale said, May Clauer realized she hadn’t paid the homeowners dues and called the management company and made a payment. No one brought up foreclosure. Hale said DiSanti stopped by the house that spring inquiring about the house being a rental. May Clauer told him she owned the home and that her husband was in Iraq. DiSanti didn’t say anything about purchasing the home in foreclosure, Hale said. > > A letter from Aboul-Jibin in June 2009 asking for rent was the first inkling that there was a problem with the home. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hoas/545023/51 "2010-07-02T14:21:20Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I don’t see how this is the fault of anyone but the couple. I don’t care what your job is, you have to read any contracts you sign and you can’t be surprised when you get consequences for not meeting your financial obligations. > > …When you are going abroad for a long period of time- and I don’t care if it is a pleasure trip or a deployment- there are things you have to take care of. I had to defer my student loans, empty my storage unit, make sure I had money in my bank account to cover two years of bank fees, etc. If I didn’t do these things, I shouldn’t be surprised if my loan goes into default, my storage unit auctions my stuff, and my bank account gets closed. > > He could have put a mentally competent relative in charge of payments, arranged with his bank to do a transfer (easily done on the Internet, which I do believe they have in in Iraq- I do it from China all the time,) payed the fees in advance, etc. There were any number of better options than “don’t pay it.” First off, this case is complete bullshit. Texas appears to allow these cases to go to foreclosure in as little as 27 days, according to the NPR story. That’s very little time to recover from missing a bill–which can happen to anybody, much less someone anguished over their husband’s safety in a war zone. And I’ll add that even with the best planning, it’s always possible to miss a bill when you are planning to be out of the country for a while. Back when I was in the Navy, I used to have to plan out my financial life for up to 6 months, and trust that my roommates would take care of everything according to my instructions. I had to guess what the payments would be, and write out checks for all of my bills six months in advance. This included rent checks, car payments, car insurance, credit card bills, etc. I would write out all of these checks in advance and post-date them. Inevitably, at least one bill would go wrong. The roommate would miss a bill, or forget to send a check, or send the wrong check, or send a payment late, and the next payment would not cover the late fee, or I would forget a bill, maybe from a credit card that I rarely used. In one case, my deployment was extended, so I didn’t leave enough checks for my bills. God forbid that my pay would get messed up, or I’d have checks bouncing all over the place for months. (Thankfully, this never happened to me, but I know it happened to other sailors.) Anyway, I’d get back to find a nasty letter from one or more of my creditors, and a followup letter, and another followup letter. It was hell trying to convince them that I had been on a submarine for the past six months, completely out of contact. After 3 years on a submarine, the worst that happened to me was a few late fees and a lowered credit score because of a missed bill now and then. (My credit score is stellar, now.) I think it’s a disgrace that the HOA forced a $300K house to go to foreclosure over such a small amount owed that was just a few months late. Texas needs to make it harder to foreclose on people in general–at a minimum, a court hearing should be required in front of a judge, and this particular foreclosure needs to be reversed, as there are supposed to be protections in place for deployed military. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hoas/545023/52 "2010-07-02T14:25:19Z")
That truly is crazy. I fully agree that HOA fees should be paid, but I in no way agree that they should have the power to foreclose on your house if you miss paying for six months - that’s a penalty all out of proportion with the crime (I note that they can foreclose for _any_ rule violation - have a loud party too late, lose your house? - but usually only foreclose for dues payments). And they’re going to _add_ making a phone call to the homeowners to their foreclosure proceedings? How very modern of you! I’ve never had a house foreclosed on, but don’t you actually have to be involved in the proceedings at some point? Doesn’t somebody have to talk to you and tell you your house is in foreclosure and get you to sign a few things? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hoas/545023/53 "2010-07-02T15:59:37Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I don’t care what your job is, you have to read any contracts you sign and you can’t be surprised when you get consequences for not meeting your financial obligations. On the other hand, penalties for failing to meet contractual obligations should be _proportional_ to the harm caused by such breach. We do do have a concept of unconscionability in the common law. A failure to pay $800 for a period of 60 days or whatever should not be remedied by a loss of $300,000. It doesn’t matter what the contract says; such an outcome is fundamentally unjust. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hoas/545023/54 "2010-07-02T16:12:53Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > On the other hand, penalties for failing to meet contractual obligations should be _proportional_ to the harm caused by such breach. We do do have a concept of unconscionability in the common law. A failure to pay $800 for a period of 60 days or whatever should not be remedied by a loss of $300,000. It doesn’t matter what the contract says; such an outcome is fundamentally unjust. This. I’m aghast that anyone would be okay with the far overreaching power that this HOA has exercised. And I don’t care if the owner was an active military man or a CEO making $500M a year. The punishment doesn’t fit the crime. It flies in the face of common sense and fairness. I’m a law and order girl. Read my responses to people who bitch and moan when they are stuck paying service fees on their overdrafts. However, there’s a big difference between paying a few hundred bucks in fines for your own stupidity and having someone sell your home out from under you at a loss of $300M in order to satisfy $400 in late payments. Can you imagine if the gas and electric company had every new customer sign a similar agreement, authorizing them to foreclose on your home should you not pay within 30 days? There’d be a huge public outcry! The HOA members and management firm in this case ought to be run out of town on a rail. Some people just have no consciences. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hoas/545023/55 "2010-07-02T16:18:22Z")
They were apparently operating within the law of their jurisdiction, but as an office professional, I personally would find it very odd (and morally reprehensible) to find myself participating in something like this - “Wait, this letter I just typed says that we are foreclosing on their house because they owe $600? Are you kidding me?” ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hoas/545023/56 "2010-07-02T16:24:37Z")
Hey, this is Texas! This is a Libertarian utopia and we love it that way! Caveat emptor! Watch your own ass! Love it or leave it! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hoas/545023/57 "2010-07-02T16:26:52Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > T(I note that they can foreclose for _any_ rule violation - have a loud party too late, lose your house? - but usually only foreclose for dues payments). Mine can’t foreclose over a complaint, but if I get a complaint and don’t respond to it (either in writing or by coming to the hearing), then I will get a fine. If I don’t pay the fine, my house can get a lien thrown on it. Like I said before, this is all outlined in my HOA handbook (all 8 million pages of it), so I can’t exactly plead ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hoas/545023/58 "2010-07-02T16:46:03Z")
Another point. Generally your ass can be sued off a thousand ways to sunday, you can declare bankrupty, you can be convicted of serious crimes and STILL you or your family gets to keep the house. Obviously this varies from state to state and circumstance to circumstance but I don’t think I am wildly off the mark here. So why the fuck is the legal system set up for easy house grabbing when it comes to piddly HOA stuff? ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hoas/545023/59 "2010-07-02T16:53:41Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Hey, this is Texas! This is a Libertarian utopia and we love it that way! Caveat emptor! Watch your own ass! Love it or leave it! > > :rolleyes: In a country where the populace so cherishes the concept of “limited government,” I’m flummoxed as to why so many people would willingly choose to live under what is essentially another layer of government - and one that’s far less democratic and much harder to seek recourse through than the real government. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hoas/545023/60 "2010-07-02T17:11:56Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > In a country where the populace so cherishes the concept of “limited government,” I’m flummoxed as to why so many people would willingly choose to live under what is essentially another layer of government - and one that’s far less democratic and much harder to seek recourse through than the real government. This is exactly the kind of “private arrangement” that for libertarians constitutes the free market unfettered by government. Also, it also points out the fact that market forces do not present most people with an array of choices that generally includes one that meets all their personal preferences. Most people submit to HOAs because their other options were worse. That’s why such private arrangements should be subject to rigorous public (i.e., government) scrutiny. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hoas/545023.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-hoas/545023.md?page=4)