# Fuck I want "socialized medicine" and I want it now! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 21, 2008, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846 "2008-10-21T02:32:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/241 "2008-10-22T13:54:48Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > Huh, coincidentally enough, I just ran into a [DailyKos diary](http://www.dailykos.com/hotlist/add/2008/10/21/145517/81/displaystory//) by an economist that illustrates nicely why health care doesn’t fit well into a deregulated “free” market, to wit: > [@](#): > > Suppose a company charges a premium equal to the average health expenses for all citizens. Well, roughly, the sicker among us will think that’s a good deal and sign up, while the healthiest will opt out – that’s called “adverse selection.” Average costs will be higher than anticipated, and the company will start losing money. They will have to raise prices. But now, even more people towards the healthy end will drop out, average costs will go up again, leading to higher prices, etc., etc. Eventually prices will be sky-high, and only the very sick will pay them – the rest will go uninsured. Of course, that’s not really insurance at all. First, even if insurance is effectively divided into tiers based on risk, this _still_ provides the “safety net” benefit of insurance, even if the costs are shared among a smaller (but still significant) group of people. It just doesn’t provide any redistribution of wealth from low-risk people to high-risk people. Second, if you think that health care cannot survive without forcing low-risk people to pay for something they don’t want and won’t benefit from, then perhaps you should consider whether it’s actually worth taking such extreme measures to protect it. ---
**Author:** ![lalenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@lalenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalenin)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/242 "2008-10-22T14:16:31Z")
> [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](#): > > Bloody hell, you’d have to be out working the streets to afford that then. You’d get around 70 months of fearless shagging in the West Indies for that (using the pill) - the health care here is limited of course, being a developing country but socialised non the less. I’m in Antigua but we’ve got a deal with Cuba and we have many wonderful Cuban doctors & nurses - wooooooo communist! Not to rain on your parade or anything, but did you ever stop to wonder if those Cuban doctors and nurses had say in being sent to Antigua to work? Or how much they are getting paid for their work? ---
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/243 "2008-10-22T14:24:30Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Second, if you think that health care cannot survive without forcing low-risk people to pay for something they don’t want and won’t benefit from, then perhaps you should consider whether it’s actually worth taking such extreme measures to protect it. :dubious: Thoughts like this confuse the hell out of me. It’s fucking _health care_. This is something that directly affects a person’s quality of life, and under the ‘free market’ model it’s the most vulnerable who do the worst–the poor and chronically sick. I think that was the whole point of **SmartAleq** ’s post–in the medical industry the free market _works against the interests of the people_. I would gladly pay into a national health care system, because I feel better knowing that not only is it there for me in the unlikely event that I will need it, but because I think the idea of letting people die or go bankrupt because of the cost of medical care is fucking insane. I like knowing that when I’m sick I won’t have to worry about the cost of getting better, but more importantly I like knowing that people who are sick will get the care they need regardless of their personal situations. That’s kind of the whole point of the argument for me–people who need health care should get it, period. They shouldn’t have to worry about bills or insurance, just about getting better. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/244 "2008-10-22T14:37:14Z")
The obesity epidemic could account for life expectancy being lower in the USA than in other first-world nations. I’ll bet the real difference between the USA and other first-world nations is in different life expectancies among socioeconomic classes. Somewhere there has to be data differentiating life expectancy rates of “haves” vs. “have-nots”. Prediction: the “have-nots” in the USA live shorter lives than their counterparts in other nations. The “haves” in the USA probably live longer than their counterparts elsewhere. but I’m not so sure of that. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/245 "2008-10-22T15:12:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Do you really not see where people would get the idea that you just flat don’t give a shit if people like Broomstick and her husband live or die? Really? > > And if you flat don’t give a shit if people without money live or die, it kind of makes you an asshole by definition. Wow. Just…wow. Would it make me a cold-hearted baby-killer if I said I didn’t want to be taxed so that every car maker in the country can be subsidized, so that they can afford to put 100% safe roll cages, 4-point seat belts, and automatic, failsafe rebreathers in every car, just in case it ever goes under water? I mean, how do you put a price on human life? This is THOUSANDS OF DEATHS A YEAR we’re talking about! Even if we are personally involved in an issue, we can still step back and discuss it rationally. I’m very sorry about **Broomstick** ’s husband. I think I may have mentioned that a time or two. But to say that I somehow think he’s “human trash, and want him to die” just because I’m not 1,000,000% convinced about UHC is farcical, dishonest, and shameful. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/246 "2008-10-22T15:21:20Z")
> [@George\_Kaplin](#): > > Absolutely. If life expectancy is anything to go by, and I believe that it is, the United States _does_ have a superior health care system to Portugal, Denmark, and Ireland. Ireland has a terrible health service. It is **not** UHC. It was gutted in the 70’s/early 80’s due to the country being basically bankrupt and has never really recovered. Lots of money has been thrown at it over the last few years but we’re building from such a low base that the money is just going into a hole. Cost are a **lot** lower than the US and most things can be got for free but you have to wait unless it’s an emergency. You could go through a doctor and then to the hospital (xrays etc) and a night or two in the hospital and not spend more than a few hundred quid. That said I doubt many people of normal means would swap for the American system. Most firms pay people’s health insurance over here. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/247 "2008-10-22T15:22:32Z")
> [@Foxy40](#): > > I will say that a highly regarded spine surgeon in my building has patients from Canada and the UK flying in often for self pay surgeries. The explanation I was given is that herniated disks and spinal degeneration is not considered an emergency and to get these types of surgeries from specialists can take anywhere from a month to a year. If they can fly, their herniated disks aren’t as bad as my Mom’s was. She walked (well, it’s more like “Dad dragged/carried her”) into the New Fancy Doctor’s office late on a Tuesday, he saw her, said “herniated disks on both sides of L4, surgery, do you live in town?” “No, we live in (place 2h away)” “OK, come back tomorrow, bring a nightie and a toothbrush.” Surgery was on Thursday. If we’d lived in town, surgery would have been on Wednesday. Again, triage. Y’all may want to look up the word. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/248 "2008-10-22T15:28:05Z")
> [@Jayn\_Newell](#): > > Thoughts like this confuse the hell out of me. It’s fucking _health care_. This is something that directly affects a person’s quality of life, and under the ‘free market’ model it’s the most vulnerable who do the worst–the poor and chronically sick. I think that was the whole point of **SmartAleq** ’s post–in the medical industry the free market _works against the interests of the people_. The free market doesn’t work against the interests of the people - at worst, it is neutral. Any individual can decide for themselves whether the benefit of the safety net outweighs the net loss of money, and pick whichever option they prefer. If their probable healthcare costs were only $1000/year, but the insurance was $1200/year, they could decide whether the safety net was worth a probable cost of $200/year. Compulsary health coverage provides more benefit to high-risk individuals, but can only do so by ripping other people off. One person may get $9000 of healthcare for only $5000, but only because someone else is being forced to spend $5000 for a $1000 product. > [@](#): > > That’s kind of the whole point of the argument for me–people who need health care should get it, period. They shouldn’t have to worry about bills or insurance, just about getting better. So the government shouldn’t make any attempt to ensure the tax dollar goes towards services and treatments that give the best cost/benefit ratio? They should just shovel out money for _any_ treatment, even if it is too unreliable or provides too small a benefit to be worth the money? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/249 "2008-10-22T15:38:00Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > The free market doesn’t work against the interests of the people - at worst, it is neutral. Any individual can decide for themselves whether the benefit of the safety net outweighs the net loss of money, and pick whichever option they prefer. If their probable healthcare costs were only $1000/year, but the insurance was $1200/year, they could decide whether the safety net was worth a probable cost of $200/year. > > Compulsary health coverage provides more benefit to high-risk individuals, but can only do so by ripping other people off. One person may get $9000 of healthcare for only $5000, but only because someone else is being forced to spend $5000 for a $1000 product. Every rapist that the police stop is a rip off of those of us who haven’t been raped. Let them get raped damnit! Why the fuck do my tax dollars protect someone I don’t even know? :dubious: > [@](#): > > So the government shouldn’t make any attempt to ensure the tax dollar goes towards services and treatments that give the best cost/benefit ratio? They should just shovel out money for _any_ treatment, even if it is too unreliable or provides too small a benefit to be worth the money? Of course they’ll triage the system. However now, every cent of profit is taken away from treatment. By removing profit from the system it will become much more efficient. ---
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/250 "2008-10-22T15:39:48Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Compulsary health coverage provides more benefit to high-risk individuals, but can only do so by ripping other people off. One person may get $9000 of healthcare for only $5000, but only because someone else is being forced to spend $5000 for a $1000 product. Isn’t that how all insurance works? > [@](#): > > So the government shouldn’t make any attempt to ensure the tax dollar goes towards services and treatments that give the best cost/benefit ratio? They should just shovel out money for _any_ treatment, even if it is too unreliable or provides too small a benefit to be worth the money? As things are now, some people can’t even get a minimum level of care, a situation that I consider deplorable. I suspect (but can’t prove) that if that were provided, the need for more costly options would drop. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/251 "2008-10-22T16:05:00Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Every rapist that the police stop is a rip off of those of us who haven’t been raped. Let them get raped damnit! Why the fuck do my tax dollars protect someone I don’t even know? :dubious: As I’ve said elsewhere, I support taxpayer funded programs for defense, police, the fire department, vaccinations and things like that, because they do not function adequately without 100% coverage. The same does not apply for much healthcare. > [@](#): > > Of course they’ll triage the system. However now, every cent of profit is taken away from treatment. By removing profit from the system it will become much more efficient. That’s a different subject. If you think the government can run a better insurance company, I would have no objection to them doing so. There is nothing mutually exclusive about a not-for-profit organisation that is funded by selling a product. I would support such a move, as long as people opted into this coverage rather than being forced, and it wasn’t deliberatly run at a loss as a underhanded way of expanding taxpayer-funded health coverage. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/252 "2008-10-22T16:20:43Z")
> [@Jayn\_Newell](#): > > Isn’t that how all insurance works? No. That will only occur if insurance premiums do not accurately reflect an individual’s probable requirements. It is possible for insurance to provide predictability without deliberately making the system unfair. Just being able to turn an unknown expenditure (e.g. a loss of $0-$100,000 some time in the next 10 years) into a defined expenditure (insurance payments of $5,000 per year) has benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/253 "2008-10-22T16:28:31Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > As I’ve said elsewhere, I support taxpayer funded programs for defense, police, the fire department, vaccinations and things like that, because they do not function adequately without 100% coverage. The same does not apply for much healthcare. And what we are saying is that health care is not functioning adequatly unless there’s 100% coverage. ---
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/254 "2008-10-22T16:37:07Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > No. That will only occur if insurance premiums do not accurately reflect an individual’s probable requirements. It is possible for insurance to provide predictability without deliberately making the system unfair. Just being able to turn an unknown expenditure (e.g. a loss of $0-$100,000 some time in the next 10 years) into a defined expenditure (insurance payments of $5,000 per year) has benefits. Point taken. But you still come back to a point of care being determined by ability to pay. Lets assume I have known health care expenses of $200 per month, that I can’t afford without insurance. What are the odds that I’ll be able to find coverage that suits my needs that I can afford? Pretty much nil. That’s the problem with the current system. ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/255 "2008-10-22T16:41:44Z")
> [@lalenin](#): > > Not to rain on your parade or anything, but did you ever stop to wonder if those Cuban doctors and nurses had say in being sent to Antigua to work? Or how much they are getting paid for their work? The ultra sound bloke and I had a bit of a giggle about The Bearded One - it happened to be his birthday. [http://www.caribpro.com/Caribbean\_Property\_Magazine/index.php?pageid=377](http://www.caribpro.com/Caribbean_Property_Magazine/index.php?pageid=377) Cuba’s Operation Miracle And on May 15, 2008 Cuba and the nation of Antigua and Barbuda signed a Memorandum of … Cuban doctors abroad receive much better pay than in Cuba, … ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/256 "2008-10-22T16:57:02Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > And what we are saying is that health care is not functioning adequatly unless there’s 100% coverage. No. What you’re saying is that health care is too expensive unless everyone _pays_. There’s a difference. An enemy army or a criminal is a threat that can attack the protected and unprotected alike. A house fire is a threat to all the houses around it. Someone infected with a contagious disease is a threat to other people. If someone needs treatment for cancer but goes without, that’s definitely a bad thing, but it isn’t going to put everyone else at greater risk of cancer. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/257 "2008-10-22T17:21:56Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > No. What you’re saying is that health care is too expensive unless everyone _pays_. There’s a difference. > > An enemy army or a criminal is a threat that can attack the protected and unprotected alike. A house fire is a threat to all the houses around it. Someone infected with a contagious disease is a threat to other people. > > If someone needs treatment for cancer but goes without, that’s definitely a bad thing, but it isn’t going to put everyone else at greater risk of cancer. No, I’m saying that, even if it was _more_ expensive to create UHC, I’d still support it, since good health care ought to be a right. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/258 "2008-10-22T17:52:24Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > First, even if insurance is effectively divided into tiers based on risk, this _still_ provides the “safety net” benefit of insurance, even if the costs are shared among a smaller (but still significant) group of people. It just doesn’t provide any redistribution of wealth from low-risk people to high-risk people. > > Second, if you think that health care cannot survive without forcing low-risk people to pay for something they don’t want and won’t benefit from, then perhaps you should consider whether it’s actually worth taking such extreme measures to protect it. > [@Grumman](#): > > No. What you’re saying is that health care is too expensive unless everyone _pays_. There’s a difference. > > An enemy army or a criminal is a threat that can attack the protected and unprotected alike. A house fire is a threat to all the houses around it. Someone infected with a contagious disease is a threat to other people. > > If someone needs treatment for cancer but goes without, that’s definitely a bad thing, but it isn’t going to put everyone else at greater risk of cancer. This is the point where we, as a nation, need to stop thinking in terms of individuals and think in terms of INFRASTRUCTURE. Yes, low risk people absolutely must pay for it, just as people who don’t drive pay for roads. Non-drivers take public transportation and their food and supplies arrive by truck so they have a vested interest in road maintenance even though they themselves do not benefit directly from road maintenance and construction. I own a house and pay property taxes, the majority of which pay for the schools in my area. Since I’m an older adult with no minor children, is it “fair” that I pay for services I will never use? Absolutely, as a citizen I benefit from new generations of well educated children becoming well educated adults and joining in the general effort to make the country run. Educated children are also infrastructure. And no, someone getting cancer does not increase someone else’s risk of cancer, but that person dying prematurely does have ripple effects on society that affect us all and the aggregate effect of many, many people being chronically ill, left untreated and dying prematurely has enormous effects on business and on other social systems. I’ve never lived anywhere that people are allowed to drive without having insurance–it can be argued that as long as someone doesn’t get into an accident they are harming no one by not carrying insurance, but society as a whole has recognized that accidents, like illness, are not foreseeable and preventable events and therefore for the common good we are all required to maintain car insurance if we wish to drive and only the sociopaths insist on having the “freedom” to put others at risk because they don’t like the expense. Now we don’t have a choice about living, as we do about driving, so since it’s inevitable that EVERYONE absolutely WILL need medical care at one time or another I don’t think it’s unreasonable to make sure that every person has access to health care and in order to keep costs reasonable it’s absolutely fair that we use taxes to pay for it in order to share the burden in a manner that doesn’t cause undue hardship to those who fall cataclysmically ill. Leaving health care up to the free market has resulted in exclusions for “pre-existing conditions” that are resulting in virtual slavery for citizens who can’t afford to change jobs because it means they’ll be uninsurable with another company. Allowing health care to be run on a profit basis means allowing the insurance companies to cherry pick only those they WANT to insure and disallow the others–this is why we need single payer, because the only criterion for access to health care should be that you’re a citizen or legal resident of the country, period. A lot of that 31% overhead the insurance companies are soaking us for is paying people to figure out ways of NOT paying benefits in order to keep shareholders happy and that is just plain disgusting. Using the insurance model for health care is inherently inequitable, because there is no alternative–if your car insurance is too high you can drive a cheaper car or not drive at all, but there is no “opting out” of life, and there’s no way to accurately assess risk in health, there are way too many variables. We see the insurance companies trying, though–as their greed gets greater they take ever more invasive steps into private lives attempting to parse ever closer the criteria for denying coverage. What if you gain twenty pounds? Whoops–fat people are higher risk, no coverage for you! Oh, you smoke? Sorry buddy, don’t wanna pay for your lung cancer–coverage denied! Hmmm, got a tattoo? Nope, since tattoos make you ineligible for donating blood due to risk, you deliberately exposed yourself and we don’t want your kind 'round here–no insurance for you, Tat-Boy! In short, the insurance companies are sticking their noses into intensely private areas in a manner we’d scream like raped apes about if it were the government doing it (at least I hope we would!) but since they’re private, for profit companies somehow it’s okay for them to wage this sort of death roulette extortion, exerting really undue influence over our private lives via the threat of leaving us unprotected if we get sick? No thanks–I’ll take my chances with the government, at least we have the option of making laws to circumscribe its activities, we have NO such recourse with an insurance company. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/259 "2008-10-22T18:07:27Z")
I’m curious to see how the USA and it’s exclusionary insurance practices will deal with DNA testing being used to assit in further exclusions. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/260 "2008-10-22T18:17:08Z")
It perplexes me that this normally liberal board has so many opponents of universal health care. It perplexes me even more that the Nixon plan quite similar to the Clinton plan as well as the previous Clinton plan were thwarted by Democratic controlled congresses. Having participated for nearly 50 years in Canada’s universal health care plan, I can only say I’m extremely satisfied. An enduring memory before that is my father rushing to the hospital with my 3 year old screaming younger sister, who was severely scalded and the doctor asked my father if he owned his house, before attending to my sister’s needs. :mad: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846.md?page=14)