# Fuck I want "socialized medicine" and I want it now! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 21, 2008, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846 "2008-10-21T02:32:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/41 "2008-10-21T05:29:07Z")
> **[Mythbusting Canadian Health Care -- Part I | OurFuture.org by People's Action](https://ourfuture.org/20080204/mythbusting-canadian-health-care-part-i)** > > 2008 is shaping up to be the election year that we finally get to have the Great American Healthcare Debate again. Harry and Louise are back with a vengeance. Conservatives are rumbling around the... Heres an article mythbusting Canadian health care. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/42 "2008-10-21T05:35:20Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > With socialized medecine you’d get to wait for two weeks to see a doctor, and by then pus would be oozing out of your ear. I may be exaggerating, but only a little. You’re not exaggerating, you’re freely inventing facts to support your worldview. Or you’re starved for attention. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/43 "2008-10-21T05:40:54Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [Mythbusting Canadian Health Care -- Part I | OurFuture.org by People's Action](http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/mythbusting-canadian-health-care-part-i) > Heres an article mythbusting Canadian health care. That article is a good read - recommended. Going back to the OP, the thing that struck me the most by it was… When **Kinthalis** was worried about his health and “freaked”, what was the first call he made? To his insurance company. Those of you down South may think “ya, so what?”, but let me tell you, it made me go :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/44 "2008-10-21T05:51:48Z")
> [@](#): > > **Alice** : I just don’t understand when folks talk about all the extra taxes - you know if you’re paying the extra taxes, you won’t be paying the insurance premiums, right? Yes, and the price you pay for your next car won’t be quite as much since you won’t be paying the maker extra money to cover the costs of assembly line workers’ health care. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/45 "2008-10-21T05:54:25Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > A similar ear problem I had some years ago in Canada was looked at by a doctor in the ER within an hour or so, and I never saw a bill. Even if you do not see the bill, you still pay it. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/46 "2008-10-21T06:26:34Z")
I have some serious concerns, ranging from the practical (how would it be implemented?) to the ravingly paranoid (I don’t want the government even thinking about my medical records, thank you) about UHC. I’m going to be uninsured come May, which doesn’t really worry me, because I already pay almost any medical costs I have out-of-pocket, and they’re very very low, because I’m young and healthy. So from that point of view, I have no reason to want to pay for other people’s doctors visits. Buuut, it’s not about me, nor anyone else, as an individual. That’s the price we pay for living in a civilized nation: sometimes you have to deal with supporting things that help other people and not you. I don’t benefit from Social Security, but it’s nice to know that it’s there for those who need it, and if it’s still around, I might in fact end up getting something back from it. If not, well, that’s life. In terms of strength of a nation, you get what you pay for. Plus whenever I have this debate, someone always ends up pointing out that I get around by bicycle instead of car, which has the potential to turn the young-and-healthy into just young. I do counter this by saying that that’s only a legitimate concern if we’re assuming that I get hit by a driver who’s uninsured, and I can’t find a lawyer willing to take a cheap case. But for the sake of argument I will concede that, to someone more safety-minded, it’s valid concern. ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/47 "2008-10-21T07:42:17Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Except that its antithetical to anything Galt would go for . . . So is hanging out with the rest of us riff raff. Don’t you have an invisible canyon to disappear to in order to make us miss you? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/48 "2008-10-21T07:59:42Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > Frankly I find it bizarre that people are willing to live with a system that allows you to go into huge amounts of debt if you have one medical problem - but hey, at least you’re not paying a tiny amount towards those scum-sucking poor people, right? This is the big point for a lot of the opponents. Weirdly, we do pay for poor people’s health care, & we pay more; because we have a privatized, for-profit system interacting weirdly with a lot tax monies directed to the “people at the bottom.” ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/49 "2008-10-21T08:12:45Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > With socialized medecine you’d get to wait for two weeks to see a doctor, and by then pus would be oozing out of your ear. I may be exaggerating, but only a little. “A little” defined as one week, six days and twenty-two hours in my experience with a nationalized healthcare system. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/50 "2008-10-21T08:21:47Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’m pretty sure I remember a liberal Canadian poster around here sometime in the last year or two admitting that his mother, who had been diagnosed with cancer, had to go through ten months of waiting before she could get the operation she needed. > > Fortunately for him and her, the cancer was slow-growing and the operation still occured in time to save her life. > > I don’t remember enough of the details to search for it, but perhaps that poster or someone who remembers his post can verify it. Well here’s a liberal Japanese poster (i.e., one living under the crushing yoke of socialized medicine) who was diagnosed with stage 1 cancer and went into surgery within the month. [cite.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=187989) Incidentally, I’m not even on the government insurance plan. I pay the full cost up front and then get reimbursed by a private insurer. The total cost for surgery and 2-3 weeks hospitalization was about US$8000. With the government insurance, it would be just over $2000. Medical costs in the US are absolutely insane. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/51 "2008-10-21T09:42:34Z")
Good. I hope the operation was a success and that you’ll live a long, full and happy life. And, given that I feel socialized medicine is gonna happen in the foreseeable future, I’m happy to hear that long waits in other countries appear indeed not to be the case. I can only hope that our government, which certainly does not have the reputation of speed or efficiency, can somehow operate the same way. Still, though, I’m wondering if I’m misreading or misunderstanding your post. You facetiously say you’re under the crushing yoke of socialized medicine and got into surgery within a month of your diagnosis, but you weren’t actually under goverment care and were covered by a private insurer. So, how does this bring anything to bear on the discussion in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/52 "2008-10-21T10:24:52Z")
Hi SA. If I may jump in and try to answer on behalf of Sublight. His story shows that the healthcare _system_ works despite being controlled by the government. More interestingly, it works for someone who is _outside_ the system and covered under a foreign (I guess) insurance scheme. (I presume self employed, as employees must be covered by the government by law). If it works for a foreigner in Japan who doesn’t have the typical insurance, it’s going to work for everyone. So I think his experience is a useful datapoint. My experience has also been very positive. I have the standard government insurance which covers medicine, treatments, consultations, minor surgery, ambulances etc., but not hospital stays. I have a private insurer for expenses that are not covered by the state. I"ll give you some examples of my experiences. My wife wanted to have an MRI to check her womb because we were having trouble conceiving - wait time, 4 days from the first visit with the doctor to discuss the problem (it might have been available sooner, but I think my wife chose the time to suit her schedule). Cost: about 70 US dollars (my wife is self-employed so also not covered, at that time. She is now). One evening I felt what seemed like heart palpatations, so I went down to the nearest hospital (a 5 minute walk), and even though I’d never been there before I was immediately hooked up to several machines, and kept overnight for observation. It turned out to be nothing but muscle spasms. I don’t think I paid anything (can’t recall for certain, but if I did it was under 20 dollars). I had a sebacious cyst on my neck. I wanted to get some elective surgery to remove it. No problem, the clinic was busy but they booked me in for the next week. Standard insurance took up the tab. But I had to pay 15 dollars for the post-op medicine. I think if your government properly implements a new system, you will all be a lot happier. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/53 "2008-10-21T10:44:36Z")
I enjoyed socialized medicine while I was in the Army, and I liked it. I certainly appreciate being able to see a doctor on the day I feel sick or injure myself, instead of getting an appointment two months down the road. I also went to the VA for health care shortly after I got out of the Army and was very favorably impressed. Their facility was clean and efficient and they treated me great. I highly recommend it. I’ll never understand why there is such scorn for socialized medicine. It’s not like we’re all so rich that we have a doctor on staff and we send the footman to summon her when we need her. Is it not common knowledge that the most common cause of bankruptcy in the United States is medical bills? ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/54 "2008-10-21T10:49:38Z")
Whoops! none of that makes sense without telling you how much the extra private insurance is. It’s about 100 US dollars a month. I’m covered for pretty much everything\* \*except alzheimer’s. I told the wife that if I get alzheimer’s and become too much of a burden, then just break my leg with a hammer. I’m covered for that and I’ll never remember who did it. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/55 "2008-10-21T11:11:39Z")
American living in the UK here. My wife recently gave birth and due to some minor medical complications she and the baby had to stay in the hospital for a week, followed up by a number of specialist appointments. Direct cost to us? Zip. My daughter now requires a special hypoallergenic formula, provided weekly by prescription. Direct cost to us? Zip. Had we been in the US we would have had a number of difficult decisions to make - do we take our first-born daughter to the doctor to have what might be a serious problem looked at at enormous cost, or do we skip the appointment and hope for the best? What can we do without? What can we sell? Socialised medicine is a godsend. Is it perfect? No. It’s incredibly bureaucratic (although this is balanced out by the lack of insurance paperwork and insurance company delays to deal with), and some of the facilities are desperately underfunded and the staff overworked. The quality of care also varies from excellent to appalling depending on who you see and where you live, but then I’ve had the same variance in the US - I’ve had GPs who couldn’t identify hives, and others who (fortunately for me) caught my cancer very quickly. So not much difference there. And despite what you read in the newspaper the quality of care in the UK has improved dramatically over the past decade. We have an excellent GP surgery [that’s doctor’s office to you] with very little waiting to get an emergency appointment as long as you ring first thing in the morning. We have a choice of hospitals. Prescriptions are free for our daughter (and all children under 16) and [capped](http://www.politics.co.uk/reference/issue-briefs/health/nhs/nhs-prescription-services/nhs-prescription-charges-$366605.htm) for us. Occasionally we have to push to get more information or question the doctors, but then that’s true anywhere in the world. The Republicans have managed to make such a bugbear of “socialized medicine” (ooooh it’s socialized like those Commies have) that people automatically think it’s a bad thing without considering what it really means. Public health isn’t just about how one individual feels; a underclass with inadequate healthcare breeds diseases that don’t ultimately discriminate between economic class, and preventative treatment is more cost effective than waiting until people are direly ill. And consider: the US has “socialized” education, “socialized” police and fire services, “socialized” infrastructure maintenance. Would the US be a better place if you had to buy fire insurance in order to get a firetruck to turn up? ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/56 "2008-10-21T11:39:47Z")
It’s worth noting that in most nations with socialised healthcare - such as the UK, where I am - you can still go private if you want. If you’re worried about waiting times, or poor equipment etc, you can still pay a monthly insurance premium and have access to private healthcare. In fact, most large employers offer health cover as a standard part of their T&Cs for managers. Of course, you are still paying taxes for the state healthcare system - I’ve no idea what an average monthly premium for health cover in the USA is, but here you’d expect to pay £100/month for a couple with a small child (but there are discounts available). So maybe $3000/year (?) on top of your taxes, but if you get hit by a bus you’ll be taken to an NHS hospital rather than a private clinic. ---
**Author:** ![Elysian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@Elysian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elysian)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/57 "2008-10-21T11:42:03Z")
I’m an American living in England, like Gyrate. The medical care is nothing short of wonderful. The doctors are quick and competent and caring. You call them first thing in the morning and they will have you in that day, unless it’s not really pressing, and in that case it might be a couple of days (like the eczema problem that appears to be gone now, thanks in part to the diligence of the medical staff at the dermatologist’s). In the states I would have had to wait a couple of months to go to the dermatologist’s – it was the same here, but I didn’t pay the $120 fee. I paid £6 (is it £6 or £8?) for the prescription creams. Dental care is also very nice. I had a filling that needed replacing, they replaced it inside a week for no charge. If it’s not an emergency they will charge you, but not more than a set fee. (I forget what that fee is, but it’s not high at all.) My birth control, which I’ve posted about on the board before, used to run me about $500 or so. Now it’s nothing. Not a penny. I can’t explain how nice it is knowing that if I really need the help it’s available at any time and I won’t be paying for it for months or fighting with my insurance, both of which have happened before. I really, truly do not understand why the US didn’t follow suit a long time ago, except for hardheaded stubbornness about the term “socialized”. Idiots 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/58 "2008-10-21T11:59:13Z")
> [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](#): > > OP - you’re so right you need socialised medicine. I’ve never needed to wear glasses but I was glad the other kids who needed them got them - National Health Pink for the girls - what were the other colours? I’m lucky to be healthy and others are not - what happens to poor American kids - do they sit in class squinting, getting headaches and not learning? Yes. That’s exactly what can happen. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/59 "2008-10-21T12:10:47Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > Plus whenever I have this debate, someone always ends up pointing out that I get around by bicycle instead of car, which has the potential to turn the young-and-healthy into just young. I do counter this by saying that that’s only a legitimate concern if we’re assuming that I get hit by a driver who’s uninsured, and I can’t find a lawyer willing to take a cheap case. But for the sake of argument I will concede that, to someone more safety-minded, it’s valid concern. The flaw in this reasoning is that it will take _years_ for such a case to go through the courts and for you to get a settlement - by which time the medical bills would have long since arrived, they would have stripped you of your assets, turned you over to debt collectors, and you would be bankrupt and destitute. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846/60 "2008-10-21T12:29:26Z")
> [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](#): > > OP - you’re so right you need socialised medicine. I’ve never needed to wear glasses but I was glad the other kids who needed them got them - National Health Pink for the girls - what were the other colours? I’m lucky to be healthy and others are not - what happens to poor American kids - do they sit in class squinting, getting headaches and not learning? If you’re being sarcastic, it’s intensely sad, because that’s exactly what they do. Poor American kids go without glasses and have teeth rotting out, and you pray to Whomever that they don’t get seriously hurt. We didn’t have family insurance for ages. The kids accidentally ran through a yellowjacket nest - instead of taking them right to the doctor to make sure they were all right, I threw them in the shower, slathered them in baking soda and kept my fingers crossed. Some swelling, but thank Gawrd neither of them was badly allergic and didn’t go into shock. Kid fractured his thumb at a baseball game - thank goodness, because the baseball organization’s insurance paid for it. And the people who bitch about long wait times fucking KILL me. Once our insurance kicked in there was a 6-week wait for our insurance-company-approved pediatric dentist. Oh, and the shrink I went to when I had to go through a local charity was great - fantastic, warm man who actually seemed to give a shit about my problems even though he only saw me for fifteen minutes every four months. The shrink I had to switch to when insurance kicked in pumps people through like he’s working an assembly line. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-i-want-socialized-medicine-and-i-want-it-now/468846.md?page=4)