# Fuck Joe the Plumber and his anger **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 11, 2008, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-joe-the-plumber-and-his-anger/476783 "2008-12-11T22:59:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-joe-the-plumber-and-his-anger/476783/21 "2008-12-12T01:47:13Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > You really must know read much that I’ve had to say on this matter, because I can tell you exactly why McCain lost, And little of it has to do with Barry, the lions share of the fault lies squarely on McCain’s shoulders. > Dio, what you’re lying about, and attempting to obscure with your disingenuous comments about taxes and Ronald Reagan, is the fact that Obama is a Socialist. He is, always has been, and always will be. _From his own writings and statements_ it is obvious that European style Democratic Socialism is the system of government that he favors. He attempts to obscure it because he knows that a majority of Americans wouldn’t buy into it, people like you come into place like there and do the same thing, because you know the same. What Obama proposed when campaigning has about as much in common with how Ronald Reagan governed as shit does with steak, _and you damn well know it_. The epiphany of the JTP clip wasn’t that Obama was lying or posturing or pandering for votes, it’s that for once he was telling the truth. Says a lot about your guy that you, and his campaign, and his supporters, seem compelled to spend so much time and energy attempting to obscure that simple fact. Seriously, stupid, just shut up. You’re making conservatism look bad. It’s embarrassing how ignorant you are. Watch the video then come back, some conservablogger has lied to you and you’re too stupid to realize it. This website is about fighting ignorance and you’re \*breathing \*it. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-joe-the-plumber-and-his-anger/476783/22 "2008-12-12T01:48:19Z")
**Weirddave** , I’m afraid your definition of “Socialist” is so overly-broad that it is not useful for rational discourse. Seriously. You must think that every pol in the US is a raving socialist. A majority of Americans DO know that Obama is not a socialist, and he does not kill puppies with a hammer every night. You are in the minority, and geez, I can see how it burns you. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-joe-the-plumber-and-his-anger/476783/23 "2008-12-12T01:50:27Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > [Watch the video you ignorant sack of shit.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUvwKVvp3-o) > > Seriously, do you have to be stupid to be a conservative in this country? > 😃 Apparently so. Its almost embarrassing. But not to me, so its kind of humorous. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-joe-the-plumber-and-his-anger/476783/24 "2008-12-12T01:51:27Z")
You know, **Weirddave** is really amazing. Every time I think my respect for his intellect has bottomed out, he goes and digs a new cellar. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-joe-the-plumber-and-his-anger/476783/25 "2008-12-12T01:54:09Z")
> [@Jolly\_Roger](#): > > Apparently so. Its almost embarrassing. But not to me, so its kind of humorous. Yeah. Now I’m as liberal as they come, but I’m one of the weirdos who thinks we need a divided congress. If Weirddave is what conservatism in this country is going to become then it’s hopeless. They’ll never win another national election. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-joe-the-plumber-and-his-anger/476783/26 "2008-12-12T02:01:22Z")
Sure, **WD** , Obama is a socialist - but so is everyone else. When you want to stop providing any government services, let us know. Until then, you’re a democratic socialist too. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-joe-the-plumber-and-his-anger/476783/27 "2008-12-12T02:02:16Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > … Obama is a Socialist. He is, always has been, and always will be. _From his own writings and statements_ it is obvious that European style Democratic Socialism is the system of government that he favors. So what? Europe ain’t exactly the Third World, you know. Why should anyone give a shit if Obama IS a “Socialist”[sic]? > [@](#): > > He attempts to obscure it because he knows that a majority of Americans wouldn’t buy into it, You’re right; I guess only the 38 million or so (one in eight) [that live in poverty](http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104520.html) would be interested. Know who has a lower poverty rate? Lesse, B[elgium, France, Austria, The Netherlands, Germany](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_pop_bel_pov_lin-economy-population-below-poverty-line) . . . sound familiar? Guess “Democratic Socialism” really isn’t working out for _their_ populations, huh? **Diogenes** is wrong. You’re no nutcase. You’re a stupid asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-joe-the-plumber-and-his-anger/476783/28 "2008-12-12T02:08:45Z")
> [@Lizard](#): > > **Diogenes** is wrong. You’re no nutcase. You’re a stupid asshole. I prefer to think of him as a funny uncle who, at family gatherings (once you get enough scotch into him) starts going on about how the Communists are ruining this country, and did you know that Hoover was a communist, and even now the communists are putting less sugar in the Cheerios so as to destroy the will of the people. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-joe-the-plumber-and-his-anger/476783/29 "2008-12-12T02:09:16Z")
\ Yes, I’m the lunatic. Please, continue. Fire away. “There are none so blind as those that will not see” is always amusing ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-joe-the-plumber-and-his-anger/476783/30 "2008-12-12T02:12:41Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > \ Yes, I’m the lunatic. Please, continue. Fire away. “There are none so blind as those that will not see” is always amusing Ohhhh a martyr complex as well! Cool! I guess we’ll see who has the last laugh when everyone is bowing at the feet of your Canadian Socialist masters eh? ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-joe-the-plumber-and-his-anger/476783/31 "2008-12-12T02:23:47Z")
> [@5-4-Fighting](#): > > And your guy lost. You can stop with the delusional, self-denying, faux-stoic, knuckle-dragging attempts to avoid anybody being able to talk about any of the examples of and reasons why. Of all the insults in that lil’ slap upside the head, I think pulling someone’s card on being ‘faux-stoic’ is the cruelest of all. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-joe-the-plumber-and-his-anger/476783/32 "2008-12-12T02:27:01Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > \ Yes, I’m the lunatic. Please, continue. Fire away. “There are none so blind as those that will not see” is always amusing Have you watched the video yet? The link is right up there, I posted it. Go on. Stop living in ignorance. Off you go! ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-joe-the-plumber-and-his-anger/476783/33 "2008-12-12T02:40:27Z")
There’s a guy I work with, who I often refer to as “Myron” who doesn’t understand anything anybody does. He will occasionally walk over and ask someone what they are doing and when they answer him it’s obvious that he doesn’t get it. He stands there and crosses his arms, looks like he might be thinking about something and nods his head a lot. But we know. He doesn’t get a single thing that’s being said. Joe the Plumber in that video. Joe is Myron. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-joe-the-plumber-and-his-anger/476783/34 "2008-12-12T03:12:46Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You know, **Weirddave** is really amazing. Every time I think my respect for his intellect has bottomed out, he goes and digs a new cellar. I disagree. A good majority of the time, I like the guy. And he will, on occasion, make a good point or raise something I hadn’t thought of. But on occasion there are posts of his that make me just shake my head, because they are just so out of touch with reality. It’s much easier for me to treat him like that kindly old uncle who will occasionally say something completely off the wall. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-joe-the-plumber-and-his-anger/476783/35 "2008-12-12T03:13:54Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > \ Yes, I’m the lunatic. Please, continue. Fire away. “There are none so blind as those that will not see” is always amusing Acceptance is the first step towards recovery. Keep it up. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-joe-the-plumber-and-his-anger/476783/36 "2008-12-12T03:28:46Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > _From his own writings and statements_ it is obvious that European style Democratic Socialism is the system of government that he favors. He attempts to obscure it because he knows that a majority of Americans wouldn’t buy into it It’s going to really bug the shit out of you when he implements all his socialistic policies, and the people see that it actually _works_, and the scaremongering they heard from the O’Reillys and Limbaughs was all just so much bullshit. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-joe-the-plumber-and-his-anger/476783/37 "2008-12-12T03:38:57Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I assume you’re speaking of her promising future as president of the Wasilla PTA. I’d like to thank Senator Palin… ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-joe-the-plumber-and-his-anger/476783/38 "2008-12-12T07:31:43Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Ohhhh a martyr complex as well! Cool! Not at all. I don’t have a martyr complex, quite the opposite, I’m one of the people who would be dragged down. I just have a simple, natural urge not to get involved in discussions with people who are not looking to an honest debate (which could have happened on this site 10 years ago), but to browbeat anyone who disagrees with them. Let’s look at it, shall we? In the context of this thread: First, we have Dio and his crowd. Dio has a habit of repeating things over and over as if that will make them true. Facts, statistics, examples…none of that makes a dent on him, he says it, thus it is true. Arguing with them is pointless. In addition, Dio tends to avoid the discussion, instead bringing up unrelated people as if that bolsters his position. Look at his first post in this thread, instead of addressing what Obama said to Joe The Plumber, he digs up the carcass of Ronald Reagan, grabs Sarah Palin and then goes on to John McCain. Who cares? Reagan’s dead, Palin is back in the great white north and McCan failed in his bid for the presidency. I’m trying to talk about what Obama says, all three of those people are immaterial. But they are perfect shibboleths to obscure what is going on. Second, we have people like Lobohan. Lobohan is desperate to have me watch a clip that I have seen a hundred times before. The version of the clip that he linked is cut, and Obama saying at the very end “and I think when you spread the wealth around, than it’s good for everybody” is intentionally potted down, almost to silence. It’s pointless to argue with people like that. What was said was said, but they want to pretend that what was said does not mean what it clearly does, and even if it does, than you clearly misheard it. Third, we have people like Really Not All That Bright. RNATB has grasped the technique of reducing things to the absurd. He says: “Sure, WD, Obama is a socialist - but so is everyone else. When you want to stop providing any government services, let us know. Until then, you’re a democratic socialist too.” He’s actually put his foot on the real issue here. The question is not whether society should accept some socialistic principles, it’s how much socialistic principles should it accept? Police, fire, transportation…all of these are things that a modern society should accept as a matter of course. Going beyond that, however…ahh, that’s where things get sticky. Reducing the question to “you believe that society and government should provide some basic services, you’re a socialist!” is stupid, counterproductive and insane. I’m not a martyr, I just tend to look at things with an historical perspective. Japan found itself in a situation similar to what we have here today 20 years ago, and they responded by trying to legislate the free market. They sill haven’t recovered. We’re shoveling trillions of dollars out in a desperate attempt to “stimulate” the economy, and it’s not working. We got to this point by having the government pass laws that encouraged, sometimes forced, the financial sector to make loans to people that were in no way, shape or form able to repay them. Why is it that we as a country feel the need to chow down on the very poison that made us sick in the first place? I’m sorry, but I don’t see the “martyr” bit applicable at all. All that having been said, my essential beef with the OP stands: Joe The Plumber is a story because you make it a story. And then you blame someone else for that. And that’s just sad. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-joe-the-plumber-and-his-anger/476783/39 "2008-12-12T07:33:12Z")
I’ve come to realize that it’s just pointless to “debate” people whose minds are already made up. Sadly, that is what the SDMB has sunk to. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-joe-the-plumber-and-his-anger/476783/40 "2008-12-12T07:39:47Z")
**Weirddave** , I can easily see why you get this reputation. This thread isn’t even _about_ Obama, and yet you portray yourself as a wounded soldier for Truth trying to start an “honest debate” … in _a completely unrelated thread._ You’re the one who mentioned Obama first. Can you not see how people perceive that as a vain, attention-seeking hijack? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-joe-the-plumber-and-his-anger/476783.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-joe-the-plumber-and-his-anger/476783.md?page=3)