# Fuck JURY DUTY!!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 27, 2004, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-jury-duty/226247 "2004-01-27T02:54:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-jury-duty/226247/81 "2004-01-30T02:44:40Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > To the people who are arguing; “You think being a STUDENT is bad? Well…” I would say; did you pay good money for the privilege of being a parent/employee? The OP is paying a buttload of moolah out of his own pocket in order to be allowed to spend his time at lectures, submit assignments, and use school facilities. As long as he is prevented from doing those things, he is being denied services for which he paid, with zero recourse to get a refund or get those same services at a later date without paying extra. > > Some of you seem to have missed that point, which was expressed very clearly in the OP. I’m going to assume I’m not being whooshed and answer. Being in college IS a valid excuse, and when **CatPerson** called the court, s/he got _deferred_ and does not have to serve jury duty until the summer when s/he is not in class (In most cases, they defer until you graduate, but **CatPerson** was acting a fool). In NC, there’s even a box to write in “Student” and just mail the card back in. Absolute worst case scenario, **CatPerson** goes and spends a morning waiting to be summoned, and then gets to say, “Student!” There is NO hardship. Except for those of us who have faith in our system. This has all been stated a gazillion times in this thread, even by the OP. So, um… How do I get to be random lesbian of the SDMB, anyhow? Are there terms? A lottery? Does Esprix shake pixie dust at all of us and see where it lands? Should I just click on the link? ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-jury-duty/226247/82 "2004-01-30T02:46:22Z")
But jury duty is something that someone else that can be done by someone else, who doesn’t have the pressing obligations that he does, and paid in order to have, on top of that. I thought all you capitalist, nine-tenths-of-the-law, near-libertarians would totally get off on that. I don’t understand why this is stirring up so many emotions all of a sudden. So he got pulled out of a hat to mouth off about some wanker who broke the law. Big whoop. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-jury-duty/226247/83 "2004-01-30T02:50:14Z")
Omigawd, I was fuming when I came home a little while ago because I, myself, have just this day been put on a jury in Bronx County for a trial that’s supposed to last 2-3 WEEKS! It looks like an interesting criminal case (can’t say more) but I really am not looking forward to sitting in the rather shabby Depression-era South Bronx for that long with no pay (my Dad’s still waiting for his $40/day from a case he was on for two days in December) and not knowing how to schedule my singing and gym classes in Manhattan, since we’ll be getting out at various times. There’s only a few non-fast-food places to eat around the courthouse, which is right near Yankee Stadium, so there goes my diet–no microwave, no oven, not even a fridge for us. At least it’s right near the subway, the D (West Side) and the 4 (East Side), so I can zip downtown right after I’m done each day if I need to. Or I can just go on home 😃 I’ve been enpaneled a few times when I lived in Mass., but once they heard my cousin’s a cop and that I’ve been shot (with an airgun, in a park, just a few stitches, by idiot teenage boys they never caught, twelve years ago) and noticed my pol-y-syl-la-bic vocab, I’ve been excused right away. Oh well. Man, the Bronx county court system is STRICT! We had about a foot of snow, no bull, here yesterday morning, and I spent a while calling around and looking at websites and all and all they could tell me was that it might be open. I had to wear my Frankenstein-style boots and wait 20 minutes for the bus in snow nearly to my knees to take me to the subway and the courthouse steps were like climbing Mt. McKinley, and when I got there…almost all the rest of the prospective jurors, dressed like Sherpas, were there too. We were scared to death! There’s all kinds of fines and stuff and no excuses, although you can call in one postponement. You’re a student? Tough shit. Single mother? What, kid doesn’t have a grandma? Sick? We want a written note from your doctor, and we’re going to call him up too. Don’t speak English? We’re going to call your workplace, and if they say you can habla ingles, you’re in contempt of court, buddy. Bring proof of that non-citizenship or chronic medical condition in notarized writing or else. And so on. The clerks practice the drill sergeant method of communication using loudspeakers in a cavernous room with row after row of chairs in which about five hundred people mostly sleep or try to read (me). To be fair, once they’ve scared all us people they’re pretty nice to us later, and the vast machinery of justice in a county with 1.4 million people and a high crime rate (much, much, MUCH lower than I was a kid, though) moves along pretty well. I’m officially a temp, and the last day of a long-term placement was tomorrow. I knew I might miss it so I finished training my successor on Tuesday and called her and the agency today so everything’s set there, except for the fact that I’ve missed a few days’ pay and am going to miss a bunch more. And oh yeah, I never got a chance to say goodbye to our boss. Know why? He was on jury duty (in Manhattan, and THEY closed yesterday, rich soft bastids!). It’s an epidemic! But in all seriousness, although I was rudely shocked when my name was called (only 5 out of the 14 enpaneled were taken) and took the oath probably looking more worried than noble, I am ready for my part in the justice system. In our orientation video we got Ed Bradley and Diane Sawyer (neither of whom would have been eligible to serve on a jury not too long ago) tell us why it was important. And I agree. Just wish I had access to a microwave. And oh yeah, may I join the pile-on on that idiot **Catperson**? Thanks! \<\\> ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-jury-duty/226247/84 "2004-01-30T02:56:00Z")
I guess what bothered me the most about this thread was the vitriol being spewed at the OP, for DARING to think that his bought and paid for education was more important than doing something any old yahoo could do. It really, **really** irked me to see him almost universally attacked, and I thought I would play the part of the lone farmer standing on the beach with a pichfork when the armada rolled in. Why on earth would he be told that being a student wasn’t a valid excuse, when it actually is? By someone who is supposed to know these things, no less? I hope whoever made that gaffe got called on the carpet. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-jury-duty/226247/85 "2004-01-30T03:06:14Z")
Just for reference, the welcoming facade of my friendly little county courthouse: [http://home.nyc.gov/html/dcas/html/building/bronx\_countycourt.html](http://home.nyc.gov/html/dcas/html/building/bronx_countycourt.html) (Can’t get links to work in Opera, hmmm). Closer up. These days with the snow it’s not quite so colorful. [http://www.courtguide.com/pro/bpixa.html](http://www.courtguide.com/pro/bpixa.html) I don’t think the building inspired Tim Burton’s design of Gotham City, but I must admit I have no proof. There is some grand art in there but the general griminess, tattered gray carpeting, and 1950’s surplus office furniture kind of detract. ---
**Author:** ![UncaStuart](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncastuart/32/404_2.png) [@UncaStuart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncaStuart)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-jury-duty/226247/86 "2004-01-30T03:30:50Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > did you pay good money for the privilege of being a parent/employee? The potential to _lose_ good money exists, however. In the felony child abuse trial for which I was enpaneled a couple of years ago in California, the judge did not give a hardship exemption to a self-employed accountant who stated that she could not meet her obligations for month-end close to her clients if she had to serve, and could potentially lose their business. The judge told her to work nights and weekends. The sales manager for a software company said he had to travel to the far east to give a presentation. The judge said that he doubted he was absolutely the only person in the company who could give that presentation, so the company needed to send someone else–no exemption. Not all jury selection experiences I have gone through have been this harsh, happily, but there are instances where people working on commission, independent contractors and the self-employed do end up making monetary sacrifices in the name of civic duty. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-jury-duty/226247/87 "2004-01-30T03:38:06Z")
**UncaStuart** , I thought of that, but what I am arguing is not about losing money, but the idea that since the OP paid to spend his time at school, he has a stronger claim to ownership of his own time; making his time his exclusive possession. Demanding that he spend his time on something else is, in effect, stealing from him. Not theoretical money that he _might_ make, but actual money that has already been spent. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-jury-duty/226247/88 "2004-01-30T03:46:44Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > No, **Lola,** YOU miss the point. The point is that the OP is a fuckwit. Shit happens in Life, and you just have to deal with it. If he got sick, or hit by a bus, and missed class, would he get a refund, or anything else? No. So what makes him think that jury duty is any different. He is a freaking parasite. > > “Denied services he paid for” my ass! He is a lazy jackanape. Sounds as if the OP is being a young, uninformed, frustrated with not knowing the system and venting that frustration person. Did s/he voice that in an “unpatriotic” immature way? Yes. Does that mean he/she is a “fuckwit” incapable of learning from his/her mistake? (that of being a jerk about the subject, not, IMHO, the frustration with the system itself). I’ve gotten called when had no way of serving (toxemia during my first pregnancy,and so on), and I simply marked the appropriate spots on the form, sent it in, and was excused. And I’ve experienced NOT being called when I would have been more than happy to serve. The system IS stupid, it IS an inconvenient pain in the butt, that SHOULD and COULD be much more organized and palatable to citizens. Disagreeing with a system of our government, even if it’s done snottily, as the OP has done, doesn’t IMHO make one “unpatriotic” or whatever. After all, the right to free speech, etc IS part and parcel of that system. Should we all be happy little comrades lining up to “do our civil duty” with no compensation, and all have NO complaints or arguments about that? The OP is obviously young, immature and inexperienced regarding how to vent. From a well-read and written doper, who turned a clever phrase and posted a sarcastic, amusing and entertaining OP, I’d wager much MORE would be forgiven regardless of the subject. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-jury-duty/226247/89 "2004-01-30T03:50:26Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > Not theoretical money that he _might_ make, but actual money that has already been spent. Yes, you are right. He has already spent the money. He has a valid claim to the time. But the State has a superior claim to that time, in the name of citizenship. And, as has been stated by several, he can get a deferment until summer, if he asks politely. But no, the OP has to be a whiney-assed crybaby about the whole thing. Fuckwit he is, and fuckwit he shall remain. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-jury-duty/226247/90 "2004-01-30T04:25:01Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > I don’t understand why this is stirring up so many emotions all of a sudden. > > So he got pulled out of a hat to mouth off about some wanker who broke the law. Big whoop. Please tell me you’re joking. Citizenship carries some responsiblities and at least responding honestly to a jury summons is one of them. Exemptions _are_ allowed for many reasons but there has to be limits. The arrogance of “it’s inconvenient, let somebody else do it” doesn’t cut it. All a person must do is provide a valid reason, and being an enrolled student frequently suffices. Wouldn’t it be just great to have jury pools reduced to the retired, unemployed or totally uncommitted! That’s sure a lot of folks. No moms who might have to arrange daycare, etc. You’re statement is one of the stupidest I’ve read on this board, and that takes some doing. You see, juries of one’s peers exist to determine _whether a crime was committed and the defendant is guilty of it._ And to, oh I dunno, make judgements in civil cases and just all kinds of messy legal situations our fellow citizens so selfishly get themselves into. The NERVE of them, actually expecting fair trials when they _know_ how inconvenient it all is. But what the hell, they’re all guilty anyway. That’s the answer! Just arrest the bastards and send 'em straight to jail. Mind boggling. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-jury-duty/226247/91 "2004-01-30T04:37:50Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] …He has a valid claim to the time. But the State has a **superior claim to that time** , in the name of citizenship… .[/QUOTE A “superior” claim??? (By which I’m assuming you mean prior, or taking precedence??). If that were true, then we wouldn’t be allowed valid reasons to be excused from jury duty at all. The system, even as flawed as it is, at LEAST recognizes that there are reasons that many citizen’s personal concerns take precedence over that of the court’s. If they truly did have the right to lay claim to our lives, whenever and whereever, then presumably, NO reason would be good enough for them to excuse us from whatever duty they wanted us to perform. As someone posted just few posts ago, as it is, some judges seem to take joy in their little napoleon status and go above and beyond reasonable measures in denying citizens rightfully deserved dismissals for hardships. And “in the name of citizenship”? Again, part of our history, AND of being American is the right to disagree with that which our government, including our court systems, says and does. It’s not being a “bad” citizen to disagree with something that a segment of our government is doing. Disagreeing with how a government did things is how we ended up setting sail in a bunch of rickety ships in the first place. It’s how we started giving hell to those that decided that it was illegal for black people to attend the same schools as whites. And so on… ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-jury-duty/226247/92 "2004-01-30T05:50:11Z")
Stop whining and _serve_, you cretin!!! ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-jury-duty/226247/93 "2004-01-30T09:17:32Z")
**kung fu lola** , I’ll speak only for myself, but I reacted to this: > [@CatPerson](#): > > I will never serve as a juror as I know it’s a waste of time for me. If they make me sit on a case I will act as rude as possible…never listen to the damn case…show up late…wear offensive clothing or whatever. I don’t think the OP is irresponsible or unpatriotic. I do think the OP is stupidly rebelling against the wrong thing just because jury duty _is inconvenient right now._ In a moment of pique, the OP says he will _never_ serve on a jury and will act contemptuously of the entire system because it’s someone else’s problem. The OP would, if made to sit on a case, _actually try to derail someone else’s life_ because he happens not to want to be on the jury panel that day. Someone may be standing trial for something very serious and is depending on twelve good jurors and true, except for the one who’s determined to rebel and demonstrate how little he respects anything but himself. Instead of trying to ruin a trial or yell at a phone operator, the OP should have tried writing a letter or filling in the necessary forms to demonstrate hardship. My solution to the OP, you’ll recall, would be to ask his professors if they thought he should participate in the legal system we have in this country. Surely the professors would know if there were scholastic workarounds for various tests, should that become necessary. But to kick and scream and ruin someone’s life at a trial just because _you_ feel slightly cheesed at having to make up a pop quiz on antihistimines? That’s just childish and selfish. ---
**Author:** ![zenith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zenith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zenith)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-jury-duty/226247/94 "2004-01-30T17:41:23Z")
You defame the two noble beings who graciously allow me to share their home in exchange for paying their bills and catering to their every need. FYI, jury duty is nearly painless. Out of my 2-month stint with the federal district court system, I served 2 half-days, 3 counting orientation. My wife served 2 half-days INCLUDING orientation out of 3 weeks’ service to county court. At orientation, the entire jury pool gets pep talks from a court clerk and one of the judges and each juror gets a juror number, a phone number and instructions as to which days of the week to call the number. Half the jury pool then goes home while the other half waits to be called up for duty or dismissed for the day. While awaiting the call to duty, jurors can read, sleep, converse among themselves, study, whatever. If you need to study for an exam,you are not forbidden to do so ( I believe that this shoots down your “impediment to my all-important studies” argument). Only rarely does a juror wind up on a grand jury or on a high-profile case. Most cases are lawsuits that are settled in the hallway once the likely loser finally realizes that the likely winner is serious enough about the case to go to the brink of trial. Once a juror is dismissed from a case, he or she is dismissed for the day and doesn’t think about jury duty until next phone-up date. And so what if you do end up on a high-profile case? Schools do offer tuition refunds, you know. And civic-mindedness always looks good on a resume, or scholarship/grant application. Ditch the combative attitude, show up for jury duty this summer, find that the case docket is light due to judges’/judges staffs’ vacations, collect your hundred bucks for your 2 half-days and hope that years later, when your shitty job is getting you down and you realize you’ve already burned through your entire allotment of vacation days for that year, the courts will give you a nice mass murder trial or grand jury to attend to take your mind off it. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-jury-duty/226247/95 "2004-01-30T18:44:10Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > College student checking in. > > Some of my professors give extra credit for jury duty. It is our obligation as citizens of the United States, after all. You might want to ask them if they’ll do that. > > And for fuck’s sakes, GROW UP! I second this. This is one of those rare threads that I read _every single post_ and I rarely venture into the Pit but . . . Given this: > [@Cervaise](#): > > "“No individual person, particularly the young, shall be inconvenienced in any Way or by any Means.” I can personally relate to a few other jobs the government may call you up for, that have “inconvenienced the young”. Like . . . THE DRAFT. But then again (and later on in history), I think the Federal government has established “the young” as 18 through such things as [the Twenty-Sixth Amendment.](http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.amendmentxxvi.html) Suck it up, Princess. I would hope you would be privileged to serve in such a capacity, but apparently, that privilege is lost on a fool. Tripler Go serve. Go _volunteer_ to serve, you Communist. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-jury-duty/226247/96 "2004-01-30T19:09:01Z")
Cue another addition to the general opprobium. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-jury-duty/226247/97 "2004-01-30T19:18:04Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > Stop whining and _serve_, you cretin!!! Stop encouraging him! Would you want him on _your_ jury? ---
**Author:** ![Qburn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/bc79bd/32.png) [@Qburn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qburn)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-jury-duty/226247/98 "2004-01-30T19:24:05Z")
> [@Ferrous](#): > > The US government hasn’t drafted anyone in over thirty years, and isn’t likely to start in the forseeable future. Come on now, there are plenty of real reasons why the OP’s position is stupid. You don’t have to start making up fake ones. I guess since I’m over 30 I personally know people who’ve had to deal with these issues, including myself. The point wasn’t that CatPerson could be drafted right now, but rather that your country can and has asked it’s citizens to make sacrifices greater than serving on jury duty. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-jury-duty/226247/99 "2004-01-30T20:34:27Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > And I hope he/she/it never complains about how the country is run, seeing as how they aren’t going to vote. So people who do not vote don’t have a say in how the country is run? As for Jury Duty, I say go for it. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-jury-duty/226247/100 "2004-01-30T21:03:55Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > So people who do not vote don’t have a say in how the country is run? Well, the old cliche is put your money where your mouth is … So if you don’t care to vote, any opinions you may have about how the country is run are not worth my time. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-jury-duty/226247.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-jury-duty/226247.md?page=6)