# Fuck off Piers Morgan **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 16, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-piers-morgan/823061 "2018-10-16T21:18:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-piers-morgan/823061/41 "2018-10-17T22:39:56Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > So **Quartz** , is this kerfuffle over the alleged “unmanliness” of a man who plays an action hero carrying his own child in a baby sling helping you a bit to understand what [toxic masculinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21254827&postcount=101) is, and why it is a problem in society? Not at all. This is Piers Morgan doing what he does best. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-piers-morgan/823061/42 "2018-10-17T23:11:33Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I hope he answers this question. I think you’re wasting your time. As Quartz has replied, this is Piers Morgan trolling for attention. I think it’s a losing proposition to try to make this the basis for any wider discussion of social issues. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-piers-morgan/823061/43 "2018-10-18T05:02:28Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Not at all. This is Piers Morgan doing what he does best. And the reason it works in this case is because of toxic masculinity. Saying that a man is deviating from traditional gender expectations of masculinity is traditionally a huge insult. Which is why the world is paying so much more attention to this remark than to some of the other equally stupid items in the infinite list of stupid things that Piers Morgan has said. > [@Riemann](#): > > As Quartz has replied, this is Piers Morgan trolling for attention. Sure, but what makes trolls effective in their attention-whoring is knowing what hot buttons to push in their trolling remarks. The persistence of toxic masculinity is what makes the accusation of “emasculation” through baby-sling-wearing a hot-button issue. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-piers-morgan/823061/44 "2018-10-18T10:42:37Z")
Frankly we could put up a flashing neon sign reading “Fuck off, Piers Morgan” and it would be justified on pretty much any given day. The man does so, so much on a regular basis that the only appropriate response to is “Fuck off”. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-piers-morgan/823061/45 "2018-10-18T13:33:13Z")
Commenting on Piers Morgan being a cunt is about as useful as noticing the sun rose in the east in the morning, but I must point out one thing: > [@GuanoLad](#): > > The origin of [plonker](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahcuPHVz6aM). The sitcom _Only Fools And Horses_. Plonker as an insult predates Del Boy by over a century. OFAH used it because it was a censor acceptable way to call someone a prick on TV; see also Porridge’s use of berk (rhyming slang from berkshire hunt, cunt). ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-piers-morgan/823061/46 "2018-10-18T21:58:50Z")
Fine. Whatever. It wasn’t meant to be an etymology lesson. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-piers-morgan/823061/47 "2018-10-19T03:55:35Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > And the reason it works in this case is because of toxic masculinity. Saying that a man is deviating from traditional gender expectations of masculinity is traditionally a huge insult. Which is why the world is paying so much more attention to this remark than to some of the other equally stupid items in the infinite list of stupid things that Piers Morgan has said. But… but… it doesn’t work in this case. It’s idiotic and he’s being ridiculed across the internet, from the Guardian to USA Today to The Week to everywhere in between. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-piers-morgan/823061/48 "2018-10-19T04:37:25Z")
Yes he’s being ridiculed. But the fact that he even made the remark is evidence that some people think this way. Believe it or not, a lot of men (and women) believe it’s wrong to expect fathers to be nurturing, hands-on, full time parents. Men aren’t supposed to be walking around with a kid attached to their body; men are supposed to be out there hunting mammoths. It may be hard to imagine a guy feeling like he’s “less of a man” for the crime of walking outside with an infant strapped on him, but shift to talking about a man being a stay at home parent or taking a low status job with flexible hours so he can take care of his kids and the shaming is easier to see. The emasculation boogeyman raises its head whenever a man chooses to do that which is routinely expected of women, and yes, this is a symptom of toxic masculinity because this fear deprives men of the opportunity to be more to their families than just workhorses. It also helps normalize the idea that fathers are not as important as mothers when it comes to caregiving. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-piers-morgan/823061/49 "2018-10-19T05:39:40Z")
My kid was a gorgeous goddam baby, and I carried him every chance I got, because giving good baby is ten gazillion monkey status points! Flaunt those genes! ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-piers-morgan/823061/50 "2018-10-19T12:17:23Z")
A big +1 for **you with the face** , whose post also made me think about a little webcomic I saw a few years ago in which one person points out a little boy who is playing with baby dolls, and someone else responds by saying essentially “Hey, you know what that means? He’s going to be a great father one day!” Also, I had know idea that “berk” comes from Cockney rhyming slang. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-piers-morgan/823061/51 "2018-10-19T12:37:42Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Yes he’s being ridiculed. But the fact that he even made the remark is evidence that some people think this way. It’s evidence that one person thinks this way. And the fact that the ridicule is pretty nearly unanimous is evidence that toxic masculinity is not creating a problem in this instance. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-piers-morgan/823061/52 "2018-10-19T13:17:19Z")
Unanimous? Not in my neighborhood… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-piers-morgan/823061/53 "2018-10-19T13:22:53Z")
Piers Morgan is definitely toxic in all sorts of ways and on virtually every subject. The “masculinity” element is largely irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-piers-morgan/823061/54 "2018-10-19T13:41:56Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Fine. Whatever. It wasn’t meant to be an etymology lesson. Sorry, not meant to lecture, more to point out the amusement factor that the writers involved managed to get huge amounts of offensive language in primetime tv programs without anyone actually noticing. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-piers-morgan/823061/55 "2018-10-19T14:08:45Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Unanimous? Not in my neighborhood… Same here. To be honest, we had a couple of them in the house when my kids were infants (they’re now 4 and 2), and I refused to wear one, because I would stick out in the neighborhood and because, well, if I’m being completely honest, it’s just not for me and I have certainly been influenced by the “only douchebag hipsters wear that shit” kind of attitude, which I guess you can call “toxic masculinity.” (That said, even if I grew up with it being completely unremarkable, I still think I’d prefer carrying my kids in my arms.) ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-piers-morgan/823061/56 "2018-10-19T17:51:27Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Believe it or not, a lot of men (and women) believe it’s wrong to expect fathers to be nurturing, hands-on, full time parents. Men aren’t supposed to be walking around with a kid attached to their body; men are supposed to be out there hunting mammoths. It may be hard to imagine a guy feeling like he’s “less of a man” for the crime of walking outside with an infant strapped on him, but shift to talking about a man being a stay at home parent or taking a low status job with flexible hours so he can take care of his kids and the shaming is easier to see. . I think that attitude is far, far less common than you think but perception is skewed because the minority that _are_ bothered by it are very vocal. We shouldn’t confuse volume with quantity. The majority of people that think it is either a wonderful thing or merely just “OK” or “no big deal” are hardly going to be expressing their equanimity from the rooftops. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-piers-morgan/823061/57 "2018-10-19T18:07:05Z")
I think people need to re-read Susanna Reid’s response. This is Morgan just being toxic. Had the baby carrier been Rachel Weisz then I’m sure he’d have made a slightly different toxic comment. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-piers-morgan/823061/58 "2018-10-19T19:35:00Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I think that attitude is far, far less common than you think but perception is skewed because the minority that _are_ bothered by it are very vocal. We shouldn’t confuse volume with quantity. I believe the opposite is in effect. Those who are bothered by it _aren’t_ very vocal about it, because they know it’s not PC to say what they believe on social media. But in private, in their day-to-day lives, their mentality is evident in how they relate to their wives, their children, and peers. I hang out on parenting message boards and the idea that nurturing fathers are unanimously supported and promoted is laughable to me. Sure, there is a lot of support out there, and yes, never before have fatherhood has been as valued as it now. But that doesn’t mean you still don’t have people thinking it’s unseemly for men to be primary caregivers. It especially doesn’t mean men aren’t judged as weak when they make the kind of sacrifices that women make for their kids. The denial in this thread is crazy. If Piers Morgan was a woman making disparaging comments about a father carrying his infant, I strongly suspect the OP and others would be using this as an example of anti-male sexism that disempowers men today, hurting them in everything from custody battles to getting jobs in childcare etc. But when the mockery comes from a man, we’re supposed to not see this as anything more than an isolated instance of trolling? [Even though the guy has a record of policing men’s behavior according to sexist ideas about what constitutes masculinity?](https://medium.com/the-messy-artist-blogs/why-are-people-with-platforms-still-promoting-toxic-masculinity-6f2a6650111a) That’s some bull. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-piers-morgan/823061/59 "2018-10-19T19:36:18Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I think people need to re-read Susanna Reid’s response. This is Morgan just being toxic. Had the baby carrier been Rachel Weisz then I’m sure he’d have made a slightly different toxic comment. Wow, the denial is really deep. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-piers-morgan/823061/60 "2018-10-19T19:42:56Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > But the fact that he even made the remark is evidence that some people think this way. I feel a bit odd disputing this with people that I fundamentally agree with on the broader issue. But no, it’s _not_ evidence for that. It’s evidence only for what Piers thinks. And 100% of commenters disagreeing with him is evidence that points to the opposite of what you claim. Toxic masculinity is a problem. A lot of people _do_ think that way, I agree with you on the reality. People who don’t believe that are part of the problem. But Piers making a fool of himself, nobody agreeing with him, and him being ridiculed by everyone, is not evidence that can (or should) convince those mistaken people otherwise. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-piers-morgan/823061.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-piers-morgan/823061.md?page=4)