# Fuck Off with your Feigned Outrage and Shock over Spying **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 25, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228 "2013-10-25T18:27:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/21 "2013-10-27T01:24:20Z")
> [@ticker](#): > > I don’t get it. Why is everybody so pissed at Snowden for telling people stuff which apparently is no big deal anyway? Because that is also a part of the Great Game. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/22 "2013-10-27T01:42:03Z")
HEY! HEY! HEY! Fuck it with the fake outrage over the fake outrage! Fuck and fake. Next time Angela Fuckin Merkel whines about spying on her personally, mention that she is the Chancellor of Fuckin Germany. You know who else was the Chancellor of Fuckin Germany? Hitler, that’s who. We need to spy on the fuckin Germans.This ain’t rocket science, which is German, and more fuckin reason to be spying on the fuckin Germans. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/23 "2013-10-27T01:58:58Z")
There are rules. Rules between friends and even rules between enemies such as we won’t assassinate your embassy spymaster and you won’t assassinate ours. But we will expel them if caught. Rules between friends are more complex and important because they are based upon trust and mutual support. If your country wants information from a friend or support on international trade negotiations, you do not betray that help by sneaking through the friends back door. There are also levels of acceptable spying - if there are pedophiles, human traffickers, arms dealers, drug connections, and money launderers in your friends country then passing on that information is acceptable. However spying on your friends political leaders is a step too far. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/24 "2013-10-27T02:09:04Z")
> [@by-tor](#): > > Every county spies to the extent that their resources allow. This has been the case since countries began. You spy on us, we spy on you, get over it. If you think your country is pure and innocent, you are a fucking idiot. > > Face it, every country is out for themselves. That is why I understand that these assholes are just jockeying for advantage by pretending to be oh so surprised, shocked and outraged about something that they already know. > > Listen up douche bags, we aren’t that stupid. We know that it is an act and that you are just using the situation to your advantage, just like we do with our control over the internet (as if you wouldn’t). So fuck off and shut your dickhole\* with the pretending and self righteous bullshit. > > And Snowden you are a fucking traitor. If you are such an idealist, why the fuck were you working for a defense contractor? > > \*Archer reference. If thats the attitude that the US will display publicly, it wouldn’t be long before their advantage in this aspect will be neutralized by concerted effort by the rest of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/25 "2013-10-27T04:44:07Z")
First rule of spy game. Don’t get caught at spy game. Second rule. If rule one get’s broken, make appropriate outrage noises. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/26 "2013-10-27T13:46:39Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > First rule of spy game. > > Don’t get caught at spy game. > > Second rule. > > If rule one get’s broken, make appropriate outrage noises. should pretend innocence even if it looks as obvious as in [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_x6QmuJdms) song.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/27 "2013-10-27T15:17:59Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > If thats the attitude that the US will display publicly, it wouldn’t be long before their advantage in this aspect will be neutralized by concerted effort by the rest of the world. Oh, nonsense. Nobody is actually surprised by these revelations (I will admit I am a little surprised that they were _able_ to tap Angela Merkel’s phone, if not that they _wanted_ to.) ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/28 "2013-10-27T15:23:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > \*\*Oh, nonsense. \*\*Nobody is actually surprised by these revelations (I will admit I am a little surprised that they were _able_ to tap Angela Merkel’s phone, if not that they _wanted_ to.) Then let Obama tell that candidly in public. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/29 "2013-10-27T15:29:54Z")
Tell what? ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/30 "2013-10-27T15:38:03Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright441] Tell what? [/QUOTE] Tell Merkel that her phones were justifiably tapped and the following “Listen up douche bags, we aren’t that stupid. We know that it is an act and that you are just using the situation to your advantage, just like we do with our control over the internet (as if you wouldn’t). So fuck off and shut your dickhole\* with the pretending and self righteous bullshit.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/31 "2013-10-27T15:43:24Z")
That might be a little more candid than appropriate for a head of state. I’m sorry, I thought you were taking issue with the OP’s premise, rather than his wording. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/32 "2013-10-27T15:51:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That might be a little more candid than appropriate for a head of state. I’m sorry, I thought you were taking issue with the OP’s premise, rather than his wording. Sorry for being confusing in last post. I mean Obama can’t say publicly they see no wrong in tapping phones of world leaders and will do it in future as long as they have the means to do the same. The outrage over it esp in friend countries is expected. USA has a lot of explaining to do. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/33 "2013-10-27T20:21:47Z")
Why? America got caught doing what nations have been doing for millennia (Jonathon Pollard, anyone?). They act all “shocked–SHOCKED,” Obama does his own Captain Renault impression, and life goes on. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/34 "2013-10-27T20:49:37Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > USA has a lot of explaining to do. Eh. The US will make some suitably contrite expressions in public, grant a few concessions in private and let some of those leak, and everyone will move on. As noted repeatedly above, this is just one of those things countries (even allies) do. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/35 "2013-10-27T22:11:57Z")
> [@knel3030](#): > > The outrage is part of the diplomacy/spy game, isn’t it? You have a point there. Is “get over it, everyone spies” also part of the game? Perhaps all emotions are the result of some Darwinistic game. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/36 "2013-10-28T09:23:25Z")
The US has exactly 4 “true allies” in the world when it comes to intelligence: Great Britain, Australia, Canada, and New Zealand. Starting with ECHELON, these Five Eyes agree not to spy on each other, and to share a lot of their deepest intelligence secrets with one another privately. Everyone else in the world, “ally” or not, is fair game for spying. Germany, France, or any other ally in the world could have entered into such an agreement with the United States back in Cold War era but for one reason or another never did, and so they are fair game for spying on us and us on them. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/37 "2013-10-28T09:40:34Z")
> [@deadtwo99](#): > > The US has exactly 4 “true allies” in the world when it comes to intelligence: Great Britain, Australia, Canada, and New Zealand. Starting with ECHELON, these Five Eyes agree not to spy on each other, and to share a lot of their deepest intelligence secrets with one another privately. Everyone else in the world, “ally” or not, is fair game for spying. Germany, France, or any other ally in the world could have entered into such an agreement with the United States back in Cold War era but for one reason or another never did, and so they are fair game for spying on us and us on them. Don’t know, man, I wouldn’t trust them shifty New Zealanders, if I were you. I just know they’re up to something. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/38 "2013-10-28T10:09:31Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > … > There’s also the fact that the scope and scale of the NSA’s operations are such that European allies are _unable_ to respond in kind, even if they were willing to do so: … US allies cannot do to the US what the US can do to them because [ul] [li]some parts of the Internet infrastructure that nobody can avoid all the time are operated by companies that the US government can force to cooperate[/li][li]more important, European allies of the US cannot afford the _political_ cost of spying on the US government - because it will become known eventually (as the tapping of German chancellors has become known).[/li][/ul] There is a basic imbalance of power involved. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/39 "2013-10-28T10:22:46Z")
I think the sheer size of the data mining is what surprised everybody. And my main concern is not the intelligence gathering pre se-it’s the very real chance that corrupt NSA managers will steal identities and sell data to criminal organizations (like the Mafia, Russian mob, etc.) We will see a major scandal from this, and very soon-when a Russian hacker finds a way in to the NSA files. Is this anything new? no-J Edgar Hoover was spying on Americans since the 1950’s-and I am quite sure that the FBI was/is highly corrupt-just look at the revelations about it given out at the Whitey Bulger trial. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/40 "2013-10-28T15:05:13Z")
Ya know, it’s not just the spying on leaders that is the problem over here. Your NSA recorded over 100 million phone calls in Spain and Italy - just in [_one fucking month_](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/10408572/NSA-tracked-60-million-phone-calls-in-Spain-in-a-month.html). The citizens of Spain did not authorize this NSA eavesdropping through their sovereign elected representatives, as the NSA is an agency of the US, not Spanish, government. They did, however, tell their representatives to make such espionage illegal in Spain - _by anyone_ (from the link above: “Interception of telephone calls is illegal under Spanish law 25/2007, which forbids the conservation of data relating to electronic communications and public networks.”) This is _not_ something “all countries do” - this is something the USA does. > [@Mops](#): > > US allies cannot do to the US what the US can do to them because > > [ul] > [li]some parts of the Internet infrastructure that nobody can avoid all the time are operated by companies that the US government can force to cooperate[/li][li]more important, European allies of the US cannot afford the _political_ cost of spying on the US government - because it will become known eventually (as the tapping of German chancellors has become known).[/li][/ul] > **There is a basic imbalance of power involved.** (emphasis added) Yes, and as usual, even here on the relatively progressive Dope, there is no shortage of posters who are willing to handwave away their nation’s intrusive, arrogant, and bullying actions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228.md?page=3)