# Fuck Off with your Feigned Outrage and Shock over Spying **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 25, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228 "2013-10-25T18:27:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/61 "2013-10-29T15:04:31Z")
c’mon newcomer, are you with us or against us? ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/62 "2013-10-29T15:06:31Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > [Link to source](http://groundreport.com/former-french-intelligence-official-admits-to-espionage-against-american-commercial-and-industrial-interest/). I don’t read French to find the original source. You can find the same quote/story in other media sources if you don’t like the one I picked. You just quoted commercial and industrial interests. What has that to do with the elected Chancellor? And no, it’s not remotely the same. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/63 "2013-10-29T15:11:42Z")
He responded to the NSA reports with : **"“There was nothing of any real surprise in this report,” he added. “No one is fooled.” Spying on allies is all in a day’s work”, Squarcini added.** If you want to say that proves nothing, that’s on you I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/64 "2013-10-29T16:30:31Z")
Nothing is on me. By all means make your point, but … you just didn’t. Think clearer maybe; critical thinking, etc. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/65 "2013-10-29T16:31:46Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > He responded to the NSA reports with : **"“There was nothing of any real surprise in this report,” he added. “No one is fooled.” Spying on allies is all in a day’s work”, Squarcini added.** > > If you want to say that proves nothing, that’s on you I suppose. Do you generally go to some unelected Government bureaucrat to ask for his or her opinion on the matters of significant importance. Asking this French dude, or chief of NSA for that matter, is like asking Claude Eatherly if dropping the bomb on Hiroshima was right thing to do - Claude going crazy later on, notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/66 "2013-10-29T16:35:08Z")
I can try to explain it to my cat as well but when the cat doesn’t get it I’m not going to blame my lack of “clear and critical thinking”. Sometimes you’ve got to accept that a cat’s just a cat. Or that a poster who won’t see the obvious because he doesn’t like it is just a poster who refuses to see the answer he doesn’t like. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/67 "2013-10-29T16:37:49Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Do you generally go to some unelected Government bureaucrat to ask for his or her opinion on the matters of significant importance. Huh? It was the former head of [France’s intelligence program](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direction_centrale_du_renseignement_int%C3%A9rieur), not a Parisian mailman. Yes, I figure the former head of the DCRI is qualified to speak about what the DCRI does. It’s not a question of whether it’s the “right thing to do”, it’s a question of whether or not it’s done. On the topic of allied western nations spying on one another, it’s something that’s done. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/68 "2013-10-29T18:21:58Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > It’s not a question of whether it’s the “right thing to do”, it’s a question of whether or not it’s done. On the topic of allied western nations spying on one another, it’s something that’s done. If the question is indeed “is it done”, what’s the difference if a mailman says it’s done or former head of France’s intelligence program or Snowden? The only reason he is saying that – and NSA chief too – is to imply it’s the right thing to do. Therefore, I’d like to remind people that both mailman and former boss of France’s intelligence program are hired and not elected. In other words, who gives a FF what he has to say – it’s not his call. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/69 "2013-10-29T18:30:21Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Adding to a pile of things for which the only counter-argument is **The only thing shocking is that you found out today** : > > -Torture > -Drone killing > -Secret renditions (i.e. cooperating with undemocratic countries when dealing with suspects from those countries) > -Funding & planning with Al Q > -Lobbyist money runs the government not your vote > -2008 Financial Crisis was legal > -Occupy Movement are bunch of lazy hipsters with no aim > -Incompetence is the root of all evil I’m pretty shocked about torture and secret rendition. Drone killings, meh. Not sure what the other things are supposed to mean. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/70 "2013-10-29T19:58:06Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > If the question is indeed “is it done”, what’s the difference if a mailman says it’s done or former head of France’s intelligence program or Snowden? Credibility. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/71 "2013-10-30T16:05:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m pretty shocked about torture and secret rendition. Drone killings, meh. 174 Pakistani children. That’s not a sentence on a message board it’s the faces, bodies and lives of 174 once real, live little people who died when their bodies disintegrated into countless shreds of butchered humanity. Meh. > **[Pakistani family testifies to empty room on Hill about US Drone that killed...](https://www.juancole.com/2013/10/pakistani-testifies-killed.html)** > > Congressman Alan Grayson held a hearing on the Hill on Tuesday on civilian deaths in US drone strikes. A Pakistani family, the Ur Rahmans, testified on the death by drone of their grandmother while she was tending her garden. Nine-year-old Nabila Ur... ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/72 "2013-10-30T16:48:14Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I have to say the White House could do better than it’d current defence of 'everybody does it". Not only does “everybody do it”, [it looks like they’re doing it to themselves](http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20131029-711921.html): \*"Widespread electronic spying that ignited a political firestorm in France and Spain recently was carried out by their own intelligence services and not by the National Security Agency, U.S. officials say. The phone records collected by the Europeans–in war zones and other areas outside their borders–then were shared with the NSA, U.S. officials said, as part of efforts to help protect American and allied troops and civilians. The new disclosure upends the version of events as reported in Europe in recent days, and puts a spotlight on the role of European intelligence services that work closely with the NSA, suggesting a greater level of European involvement in global surveillance."\* This might mute the “outrage” just a tad, or at least direct more of it inward. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/73 "2013-10-30T17:53:16Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > 174 Pakistani children. That’s not a sentence on a message board it’s the faces, bodies and lives of 174 once real, live little people who died when their bodies disintegrated into countless shreds of butchered humanity. Meh. > > [Pakistani family testifies to empty room on Hill about US Drone that killed Granny](http://www.juancole.com/2013/10/pakistani-testifies-killed.html) Yes, when I said I’m meh about drone killings I was of course referring specifically to unarmed children. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/74 "2013-10-30T18:50:37Z")
Seems to me that if everyone is doing , then by definition, Snowdon is not betraying anyone, since everyone who matters already knows - he gave no secrets away. I think the right wing crowd ought to think on this, if this is ok, lets go the whole democratic hog, and not have any secrets, instead the communications of all our leaders, and of all private citizens should be a matter of public record, how does that fit in with your freedom values? Why should some be allowed to spy on all with impunity and not be held to any sort of scrutiny? Lets have it all out in the open I say, vote for me! ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/75 "2013-10-30T18:54:06Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > Seems to me that if everyone is doing , then by definition, Snowdon is not betraying anyone, since everyone who matters already knows - he gave no secrets away. Pretty faulty logic. I know my wife is getting me a Christmas present. She knows I’m getting her one. Someone handing her my sales receipts and Amazon browser history takes it to a level beyond “we both conceptually know this is going on”. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/76 "2013-10-30T19:52:05Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Therefore, I’d like to remind people that both mailman and former boss of France’s intelligence program are hired and not elected. In other words, who gives a FF what he has to say – it’s not his call. I would like to ask you a question that I’m going to word in the most considered, specific way I possibly can: Are you retarded? > [@casdave](#): > > Seems to me that if everyone is doing , then by definition, Snowdon is not betraying anyone, since everyone who matters already knows - he gave no secrets away. I’ll put a finer point on it: everyone knows you “snuggle” with your significant other. It would still be deeply embarrassing to most people to have explicit evidence of that snuggling appear on page one of the newspaper. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/77 "2013-10-30T19:59:08Z")
Above and beyond that, Snowden gave details on HOW the US was conducting its intelligence which is damaging since it allows the other guy to circumvent it. Two guys are both aware that they’re playing poker but that doesn’t mean one of them is now okay with a mirror over his shoulder. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/78 "2013-10-30T20:13:02Z")
> [@JackTheRipperMannii](#): > > This might mute the “outrage” just a tad, or at least direct more of it inward. I wish I could say I believed it would. But it won’t. Regards, Sho-damned ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/79 "2013-10-30T23:48:58Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Credibility. Now that’s insane. A guy, whose job is to spy and do secret things behind the back of elected officials and public and who even when caught wont admit of wrong doing but will try every trick in the book to weasel out… has credibility? 1984 called, they’re running out of proles. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228/80 "2013-10-30T23:50:48Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I would like to ask you a question that I’m going to word in the most considered, specific way I possibly can: Are you retarded? Only a retard can believe this headline in CNN - [Allies spy on allies because a friend today may not be one tomorrow](http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/30/us/spying-on-allies-everybody-does-it/index.html?hpt=hp_t2) I’m more than happy to be 180 degrees from you on this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-off-with-your-feigned-outrage-and-shock-over-spying/672228.md?page=5)