# Fuck Oklahoma Governor Mary Fallin and Fuck the Death Penalty **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 16, 2015, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478 "2015-09-16T15:15:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/1 "2015-09-16T15:15:45Z")
[Oklahoma is going to execute an innocent man in a few hours](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/oklahoma-inmate-richard-glossip-set-to-die-for-1997-killing/). Everyone agrees Richard Glossip was not the killer. The actual killer, Justin Sneed, and he alone, is the state’s evidence that Glossip was involved. The actual killer,\* in exchange for getting his sentence reduced from the death penalty to life in prison\*, testified that Glossip paid him to do it. There’s no physical evidence tying him to the murder. Sneed claims that he and Glossip split money they got from the victim’s car. Glossip says his money is from his paycheck and selling furniture. Sneed’s money had blood on it. Glossip’s didn’t. Sneed claimed Glossip helped him hang a shower curtain over a broken window. The curtain had Sneed’s fingerprints, not Glossip’s. The conviction was based on nothing but a snitch’s testimony. And his story doesn’t add up. And Mary Fallin is OK with killing this guy. Fuck you and your belief that somebody’s death - anybody who isn’t important - in exchange for a murder, equals justice. May you be wrongly convicted someday. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/2 "2015-09-16T15:26:49Z")
Even _if_ it isn’t a wrongful conviction, this is my main beef with the death penalty. Juries can be notoriously inept, and if not inept, misled by questionable prosecutorial tactics. There is no reason to execute someone under these circumstances. It serves no purpose. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/3 "2015-09-16T15:30:50Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Even _if_ it isn’t a wrongful conviction, this is my main beef with the death penalty. Juries can be notoriously inept, and if not inept, misled by questionable prosecutorial tactics. There is no reason to execute someone under these circumstances. It serves no purpose. While I have no problem with the death penalty, per se, I do have a big problem with its application, like in this instance. I think it should only be used where there no doubt of guilt. And then, extremely swiftly. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/4 "2015-09-16T16:04:44Z")
_"Watkins says Glossip’s last meal was chicken fried steak, mashed potatoes and a dinner roll from Chili’s; two orders of fish and chips from Long John Silver’s; and a strawberry malt and Baconator cheeseburger from Wendy’s._ > **[Oklahoma inmate Richard Glossip set to die for 1997 killing](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/oklahoma-inmate-richard-glossip-set-to-die-for-1997-killing/)** > > Attorneys for an Oklahoma death row inmate are making a last-minute effort to spare their client's life just hours before his scheduled execution See, they don’t have to execute him - with that stuff caking his arteries, he can’t last long. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/5 "2015-09-16T16:12:07Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Everyone agrees Richard Glossip was not the killer. If that were true, he would be in no danger of being executed. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/6 "2015-09-16T16:14:50Z")
Aaaaand we can stop the clock at one hour between someone posting a rant about how a state obviously did something really, _really_ wrong, and **Smapti** stepping up to the plate to defend it. A little worse than your usual times; maybe you were just desperate to find that one semantic snippet you could cling to in lieu of actually making a fucking argument. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/7 "2015-09-16T16:17:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If that were true, he would be in no danger of being executed. Really? Tell me what the state of Oklahoma claims, dipshit. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/8 "2015-09-16T16:18:44Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Really? Tell me what the state of Oklahoma claims, dipshit. The state of Oklahoma claims that he is guilty of murder, that he was convicted of that murder by a unanimous jury of his peers, and that in all subsequent appeals he has failed to provide any evidence sufficient to overturn that finding. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/9 "2015-09-16T16:19:25Z")
Funny how he was convicted twice by two different juries and appealed all the way to the Supreme Court if he was so obviously innocent. Of course, I have learned not to trust a word the anti-DP side says about these things, so I don’t find it _that_ funny. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/10 "2015-09-16T16:51:27Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The state of Oklahoma claims that he is guilty of murder, that he was convicted of that murder by a unanimous jury of his peers, and that in all subsequent appeals he has failed to provide any evidence sufficient to overturn that finding. You fucking weasel. I said _everyone agrees he was not the killer_. Your bullshit answer does not dispute that, but you’re trying to pretend you actually researched this before you answered. You’re not fooling anyone. You knee-jerk typed out a smug answer without bothering to learn a damned thing until you got called on it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/11 "2015-09-16T16:54:55Z")
> [@bup](#): > > You fucking weasel. I said _everyone agrees he was not the killer_. He was the mastermind of the killing. As far as the law is concerned, that’s the same thing as pulling the trigger. That’s why he’s being executed - because he’s guilty of murder. Would you raise “Everyone agrees he was not the killer” as an objection to Charles Manson’s guilt? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/12 "2015-09-16T16:56:17Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Funny how he was convicted twice by two different juries and appealed all the way to the Supreme Court if he was so obviously innocent. > > Of course, I have learned not to trust a word the anti-DP side says about these things, so I don’t find it _that_ funny. I myself don’t put much trust in anything the anti-DP campaigners say either. But on looking around a bit, I can’t find the “other side” to this story. It does seem like the evidence against this guy is limited to the self-interested testimony of the actual killer. Hard to see sentencing a guy to death based on just that. If there’s another side, I’d like to see it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/13 "2015-09-16T17:08:55Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > If there’s another side, I’d like to see it. Some highlights [from the state court of appeals’ ruling;](http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ok-court-of-criminal-appeals/1466730.html) > [@](#): > > In this case, the State presented a compelling case which showed that Justin Sneed placed himself in a position where he was totally dependent on Glossip.   Sneed testified that it was Glossip’s idea that he kill Van Treese.   Sneed testified that Glossip promised him large sums of cash if he would kill Barry Van Treese.   Sneed testified that, on the evening before the murder, Glossip offered him $10,000 dollars if he would kill Van Treese when he returned from Tulsa.   After the murder, Glossip told Sneed that the money he was looking for was under the seat of Van Treese’s car.   Sneed took an envelope containing about $4,000.00 from Van Treese’s car.   Glossip told Sneed that he would split the money with him, and Sneed complied.   Later, the police recovered about $1,200.00 from Glossip and about $1,700.00 from Sneed.   The most compelling corroborative evidence, in a light most favorable to the State, is the discovery of the money in Glossip’s possession.   There was no evidence that Sneed had independent knowledge of the money under the seat of the car.   Glossip’s actions after the murder also shed light on his guilt… > > Glossip claims that the State’s evidence of motive was unsubstantiated and disputed.   However, the State presented sufficient evidence to show that Glossip feared that he was going to be fired as manager, because the motel accounts had shortages during the end of 1996.   Cliff Everhart told Mr. Van Treese that he thought that Glossip was “pocketing a couple hundred extra” every week during the quarter of 1996.   Billye Hooper shared her concerns about the motel with Van Treese.   Van Treese told her that he knew he had to take care of things.   It was understood that Van Treese was referring to Glossip’s management… > > The State presented an enormous amount of evidence that Glossip concealed Van Treese’s body from investigators all day long and he lied about the broken window.   He admitted knowing that Sneed killed Van Treese in room 102.   He knew about the broken glass.   However, he never told anyone that he thought Sneed was involved in the murder, until after he was taken into custody that night, after Van Treese’s body was found.   Glossip intentionally lied by telling people that Van Treese had left early that morning to get supplies.   In fact, Van Treese was killed hours before Glossip claimed to have seen Van Treese that morning.   Glossip’s stories about when he last saw Van Treese were inconsistent.   He first said that he last saw him at 7:00 a.m.;   later he said he saw him at 4:30 a.m.   Finally, he said he last saw him at 8:00 p.m. the night before Van Treese’s death, and he denied making other statements regarding the time he last saw Van Treese… > > Glossip also intentionally steered everyone away from room 102.   He told Billye Hooper that Van Treese had left to get materials, and that Van Treese stayed in room 108 the night before.   He told Jackie Williams, a housekeeper at the motel, not to clean any downstairs rooms (which included room 102).   He said that he and Sneed would clean the downstairs rooms.   He told a number of people that two drunken cowboys broke the window, and he tried to implicate a person who was observed at the nearby Sinclair station as one of the cowboys… > > The next day, Glossip began selling all of his belongings, before he admitted that he actively concealed Van Treese’s body.   He told Everhart that “he was going to be moving on.”   He failed to show up for an appointment with investigators, so the police had to take him into custody for a second interview where he admitted that he actively concealed Van Treese’s body. There’s more, and I won’t bog down the thread with the entire thing, but it’s clear that he was arrested and convicted on more than just one man’s say-so. ---
**Author:** ![Ionizer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5daacb/32.png) [@Ionizer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ionizer)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/14 "2015-09-16T17:12:49Z")
Just got home nd “Breking News” is showing he has been granted a stay in his execution. Here’s a quick [local news link](http://www.koco.com/news/court-halts-execution-of-richard-glossip/35304290) I don’t know much about the initial details, but supposedly the ‘other guy’ told other inmates that he framed the guy, in so many words. And yeah, fuck Fallin, have hated her for a loooong time. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/15 "2015-09-16T17:24:51Z")
According to this source, there is considerable circumstantial evidence against Glossip, including motive and the fact that he initially told a series of lies to investigators and co-workers about what he knew of the victim’s disappearance and murder. [https://www.readfrontier.com/investigation/two-truths-and-a-lie-what-records-interviews-reveal-about-richard-glossips-murder-conviction/](https://www.readfrontier.com/investigation/two-truths-and-a-lie-what-records-interviews-reveal-about-richard-glossips-murder-conviction/) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/16 "2015-09-16T17:26:38Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Fuck Oklahoma Governor Mary Fallin and Fuck the Death Penalty > > Everyone agrees Richard Glossip was not the killer. > [@bup](#): > > You fucking weasel. I said _everyone agrees he was not the killer_. Your bullshit answer does not dispute that, but you’re trying to pretend you actually researched this before you answered. (post shortened, underline added) That’s the problem with using the term “everyone”. It’s obvious that “everyone” does NOT agree that Richard Glossip was not involved in the murder of Barry Van Treese. If “everyone” agreed, then Glossip would not currently be on death row, and scheduled for execution. Some people disagree with your assessment of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/17 "2015-09-16T17:45:33Z")
Very glad he got a stay of execution until Sept. 30. I’ve been following this case the last few weeks. It is just incredible that someone who beats another human being to death is trusted in his testimony. The cops already had a confession from Justin Sneed. They urged him to name another person because they didn’t believe he did it himself. So he names Richard Glossip. Sneed, the murderer, is spared the DP, and Glossip gets death. Even Sneed’s daughter is on Glossip’s side. Next step is to release him. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/18 "2015-09-16T18:00:31Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > Very glad he got a stay of execution until Sept. 30. I’ve been following this case the last few weeks. It is just incredible that someone who beats another human being to death is trusted in his testimony. But of course, if he tells someone in prison that he framed Glossip, well, then, by Jove, he _must_ be telling the truth! That’s why the anti-CP crowd immediately stopped supporting Cameron Willingham after news of his confession came forward - because jailhouse confessions are always truthful and beyond reproach. > [@](#): > > The cops already had a confession from Justin Sneed. They urged him to name another person because they didn’t believe he did it himself. So he names Richard Glossip. Sneed, the murderer, is spared the DP, and Glossip gets death. And as noted above, they already had plenty of evidence that Glossip lied about knowing where his victim was, lied about the cash he had in his possession when he was arrested, lied about the broken window, deliberately prevented people from looking in the room where the body was hidden, and had ample motive to kill Van Treese in order to protect his livelihood. > [@](#): > > Even Sneed’s daughter is on Glossip’s side. Was she there? Glossip is a guilty man whose cause is being spearheaded by disingenuous anti-CP people who want to prevent the state from executing _anyone_ by attacking the means used to carry out executions, not because of any genuine faith in his innocence. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/19 "2015-09-16T18:09:20Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Glossip is a guilty man whose cause is being spearheaded by disingenuous anti-CP people who want to prevent the state from executing _anyone_ by attacking the means used to carry out executions, not because of any genuine faith in his innocence. Somehow I doubt your ability to read minds. Consider that there’s a tiny possibility that the appeals court is right that perhaps there’s a miniscule, non-zero possibility that Glossip was incorrectly convicted of murder and sentenced to death. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/20 "2015-09-16T18:13:08Z")
[Good News.](http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/16/oklahoma-richard-glossip-execution-wednesday-protocol) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478.md?page=2)