# Fuck Oklahoma Governor Mary Fallin and Fuck the Death Penalty **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 16, 2015, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478 "2015-09-16T15:15:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/61 "2015-09-17T19:35:43Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > I still see no real evidence he hired Sneed to do the murder. How much motive does a guy have to cover up for a murder that he’s not involved in, and for some random employee? The fact that he was willing to go to some lengths to cover it up strongly suggests that he was involved. > [@](#): > > As dumb as you can be, how would you trust this kid Sneed to do the deed and do it right? Because Glossip expected that Sneed would just do the head bashing part and he (Glossip) would take care of the rest. And if Sneed managed to mess up the head bashing part, then Glossip could just pretend to not be involved. What he didn’t expect was that Sneed would get his part done and he (Glossip) would mess up on his end. > [@](#): > > Sneed’s story changed a few times too. Sneed was the murderer. It’s not surprising if a murderer’s story changes a few times. It is surprising if someone who has no involvement changes his story a few times. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/62 "2015-09-17T20:50:57Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > I still see no real evidence he hired Sneed to do the murder. As dumb as you can be, how would you trust this kid Sneed to do the deed and do it right? I’m not sure how you’re defining “real evidence.” His behavior in covering it up and misleading the police is, in fact, evidence, and it’s real. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/63 "2015-09-18T14:27:44Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That said, the OP simply presents a completely false representation of the facts by claiming Sneed’s testimony is the only evidence against Glossip. It absolutely is not… Which is why my default assumption about anti-DP rants like the OP is that they are making it up. They basically show what the court system would look like if the prosecution weren’t allowed to present a case or rebut an alibi. Arguing on principle (like **RickJay** has done) is one thing. Lying is something else. _:shrugs:_ Once the appeals court finds this latest load of recycled bullshit to be without merit, the lawyers will switch to “capital punishment is cruel and unusual because general anesthesia doesn’t work” or something. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/64 "2015-09-18T14:30:45Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Which is why my default assumption about anti-DP rants like the OP is that they are making it up. Which I get. And I’m down with it. But then you use rants like that to assume \*all \*DP opponents are \*always \*making _everything_ up. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/65 "2015-09-18T14:55:07Z")
**RickJay** , **Shodan** , **andros** , What do you think I misrepresented, lied about, and/or made up? I’ll cite everything in my OP. I don’t like being called a liar. And tell you, moreover, that neither jury was aware of the fact that Sneed had contradicted himself in his statements to the cops. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/66 "2015-09-18T15:06:28Z")
> [@bup](#): > > What do you think I misrepresented, lied about, and/or made up? > > I’ll cite everything in my OP. Do you continue to insist that Sneed’s testimony is the _only_ evidence against Glossip? > [@](#): > > And tell you, moreover, that neither jury was aware of the fact that Sneed had contradicted himself in his statements to the cops. Why didn’t the defense mention it, then? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/67 "2015-09-18T15:24:34Z")
> [@bup](#): > > **RickJay** , **Shodan** , **andros** , > > What do you think I misrepresented, lied about, and/or made up? > > I’ll cite everything in my OP. > > I don’t like being called a liar. > > And tell you, moreover, that neither jury was aware of the fact that Sneed had contradicted himself in his statements to the cops. Apologies, **bup**. I didn’t mean to take any sides on your OP. I don’t know enough about the case to know if your presentation is accurate or not, and I’m sorry that I came across as I did. Mostly, my issue is with taking a single instance of _perceived_ inaccuracy and using it to justify the premise that all DP opponents are always inaccurate. Which I kinda think **Shodan** does. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/68 "2015-09-18T16:37:24Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Mostly, my issue is with taking a single instance of _perceived_ inaccuracy and using it to justify the premise that all DP opponents are always inaccurate. Which I kinda think **Shodan** does. There’s a difference between “default assumption” and “always”. And the inaccuracy is not merely a perception. One of the things that pinged my BS detector is the statement that this assclown was convicted when there was no other evidence besides the accomplice’s statement. And a bit of superficial Googling reveals that, gosh-a-roonie, there was other evidence, and that evidence was sufficient to convince two different juries beyond any reasonable doubt. Anti-DP proponents generally-but-not-always do one or both of two things - [ul][li]Re-present the defense case without anyone being under oath or anyone to cross-examine or rebut, or[/li][li]Present startling new evidence that Some Other Dude (who is usually either dead and can’t defend himself, or has never been identified or shown to exist) Really Did It.[/ul]I venture to guess that the second is what they are trying now - twenty years after the fact, and after his co-conspirator is safely away from the death penalty, it suddently occurs to him that everything he said about Glossup was a complete lie. [/li] Uh-huh. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/69 "2015-09-18T16:44:13Z")
Media players and amateur advocates tend not to be the most balanced and reliable reporters on any topic. I don’t think the death penalty is an exception there. I don’t trust the facts presented by any issue advocate to be a fair presentation of both sides. But I think the actual professionals who do this work are a lot more reasonable than you suggest, **Shodan**. Bryan Stevenson is one of the country’s foremost campaigners against the death penalty, and his cases do not fit your description. I highly recommend reading _[Just Mercy](http://www.amazon.com/Just-Mercy-Story-Justice-Redemption/dp/081298496X)_. It is quick and easy reading, and whether you agree or disagree with his perspective, is a presentation of the some of the strongest arguments against the current version of the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/70 "2015-09-18T17:25:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > _:shrugs:_ Once the appeals court finds this latest load of recycled bullshit to be without merit, the lawyers will switch to “capital punishment is cruel and unusual because general anesthesia doesn’t work” or something. Wait, you don’t care if people are not fully sedated before being put to sleep through asphyxiation? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/71 "2015-09-18T17:34:48Z")
Can’t speak for Shodan, but I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/72 "2015-09-18T17:49:23Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Wait, you don’t care if people are not fully sedated before being put to sleep through asphyxiation? The objective is to kill the person. Making the final minutes of their experience more pleasant is not a priority for me. Frankly, this would all be a lot easier if we just went back to nooses and axes. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/73 "2015-09-18T17:54:04Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The objective is to kill the person. Making the final minutes of their experience more pleasant is not a priority for me. Frankly, this would all be a lot easier if we just went back to nooses and axes. Hell, let’s go ahead and use the rack! Or pressing, that’s always good for a larf. We can put it on TV; I reckon the bidding war should end up with a tasty paycheck to help support law enforcement. _Peine forte et dure_: not just for Medieval Europe any more! ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/74 "2015-09-18T17:56:20Z")
Or to put it in terms that might resonate with someone like **Smapti** , the condemned in these cases has not been sentenced to torture. Such wanton infliction of pain exceeds what the authorities have ordered. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/75 "2015-09-18T17:59:10Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Or to put it in terms that might resonate with someone like **Smapti** , the condemned in these cases has not been sentenced to torture. Such wanton infliction of pain exceeds what the authorities have ordered. That is correct. There’s no need to make the execution more painful than it needs to be, but pretending that the process of executing a human being should be clean, sterile, and bloodless has more to do with assuaging our own squeamishness than it does with any sort of idea that we’re being “humane” about it. A well-executed hanging or any number of other methods can kill a person quickly and with a minimum of pain, and that’s the route we’re going to end up going down at this rate. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/76 "2015-09-18T18:04:38Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Or to put it in terms that might resonate with someone like **Smapti** , the condemned in these cases has not been sentenced to torture. Such wanton infliction of pain exceeds what the authorities have ordered. That’s correct. In addition, I’m not specifically looking for anyone to be tortured either. But if the question is whether I’m concerned about murderers not being “fully sedated”, the answer is that I’m not concerned about it. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/77 "2015-09-18T18:12:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > That is correct. There’s no need to make the execution more painful than it needs to be, but pretending that the process of executing a human being should be clean, sterile, and bloodless has more to do with assuaging our own squeamishness than it does with any sort of idea that we’re being “humane” about it. A well-executed hanging or any number of other methods can kill a person quickly and with a minimum of pain, and that’s the route we’re going to end up going down at this rate. Agreed. Let’s not pretend to make it so clinical just to make squeamish citizens feel better about the killing. As long as we’re going to disproportionately execute black men for crimes against white women, let’s do it the old-fashioned way: with a noose. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/78 "2015-09-18T18:17:07Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > As long as we’re going to disproportionately execute black men for crimes against white women That’s a rather cute bit of race-baiting for a thread about a white man killing another white man. I don’t believe the race of a murderer or his/her victim is relevant to whether they should be executed for it. Do you? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/79 "2015-09-18T18:19:35Z")
It’s not race-baiting to point out racism. You may not approve of the use of race as a factor, but you support a punishment that is applied far more frequently to black murderers than white ones, and even more frequently when the victim is white instead of black. The racial disparities in the use of the death penalty are one of the strongest reasons for repealing it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478/80 "2015-09-18T18:33:35Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > It’s not race-baiting to point out racism. It _is_, however, race-baiting to assert racial motivations when none are present. Which is what you’re doing here. > [@](#): > > You may not approve of the use of race as a factor, but you support a punishment that is applied far more frequently to black murderers than white ones, and even more frequently when the victim is white instead of black. Irrelevant. If a person deserves to die for their crimes, then they deserve to die for their crimes. The fact that Person X didn’t get the punishment they deserve does not mean that Person Y shouldn’t get it either. > [@](#): > > The racial disparities in the use of the death penalty are one of the strongest reasons for repealing it. No, the racial disparities in the use of the death penalty are one of the strongest reasons to oppose racial disparity in sentencing. It has no bearing on the justness of the death penalty. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-oklahoma-governor-mary-fallin-and-fuck-the-death-penalty/731478.md?page=5)