# Fuck Ray Rice. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 11, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247 "2014-09-11T23:54:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/61 "2014-09-14T00:56:29Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#): > > Woman. You sexist pig, it’s _womyn_ (and _femyle_), unless you think someone with a XX chromosome pair needs “man” and “male” to be complete. I’m honestly nauseated with testosterone poisoned troglodytes like you who seek to use language to undermine womyn. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/62 "2014-09-14T00:59:43Z")
**OurLordPeace** =sanctimonious. In _every_ thread in which he’s posted. Well done sir. ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/63 "2014-09-14T01:00:22Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > And we’re all grateful for it. You’re a wonderful person, fixing sexism and racism on the Internet for everybody. > [@Fenris](#): > > You sexist pig, it’s _womyn_ (and _femyle_), unless you think someone with a XX chromosome pair needs “man” and “male” to be complete. > > I’m honestly nauseated with testosterone poisoned troglodytes like you who seek to use language to undermine womyn. Disingenuous posts like these don’t change the reality of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/64 "2014-09-14T01:04:34Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > **OurLordPeace** =sanctimonious. In _every_ thread in which he’s posted. Well done sir. Once again, it’s not about me. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/65 "2014-09-14T01:09:23Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > **OurLordPeace** =sanctimonious. In _every_ thread in which he’s posted. Well done sir. Oh, you’d think so, but he _can’t_ be sanctimonious. He’s constantly saying it’s not about him, after all. > [@OurLordPeace](#): > > Once again, it’s not about me. See? The poor thing just wants to fight injustice. He asks for no reward, other than the joy of knowing he has helped his fellow man be a little more righteous. ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/66 "2014-09-14T01:14:20Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Oh, you’d think so, but he _can’t_ be sanctimonious. He’s constantly saying it’s not about him, after all. > See? The poor thing just wants to fight injustice. He asks for no reward, other than the joy of knowing he has helped his fellow man be a little more righteous. Yes, as a matter of fact. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/67 "2014-09-14T05:03:54Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#): > > Disingenuous posts like these don’t change the reality of the situation. It’s easy for a neolithic throwback like you to deride the claims of womyn and men everywhere who are aware of semantic infiltration of our language designed to minimize and denigrate femayles everywhere. Perhaps a cretin like you is unaware of second-wave feminism, or the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival of 1975 where the term first gained popularity, but it _is_ a real thing, not something for you, a patriarchal oppressor to mock as merely a way to be “disingenuous”. The word “woman” is just an expansion of of the word “man”, which clearly implies that the identity of a womyn relies on man. By spelling womyn with a “Y”, there’s a recognition of the diverse roles/identities womyn can have and aren’t simply defined by a relationship to men. I’m sure that a testosterone poisoned thug like you won’t bother to actually read this link, but perhaps if you have any interest in expanding your mind, [you might want to take a look here for the reasoning behind the term](https://www.msu.edu/~womyn/alternative.html). Perhaps someone more enlightened can help you with the big words. ETA: And how _dare_ you, a man, try to limit how a womyn can choose to define herself. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/68 "2014-09-14T06:11:15Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#): > > Yes, as a matter of fact. You’re kinda proving the point, chump. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/69 "2014-09-14T08:46:41Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#): > > So is it fine to use “gay” as a pejorative, even if you don’t have a problem with gay people, or use “pimp” as a term for a suave man, even if you don’t endorse all the awful things that pimps do? Irrelevant, I picked you up on the fact that “cunt” has no sexist connotations in the UK and Ireland. It is completely divorced from the original definition of the word. Like “fuck” is just a linguistic, sweary placeholder in the phrase “shut the fuck up!”. It doesn’t actually mean anything. If you can’t accept that fact of that different cultures use words in different ways then I don’t know what to say. You do know that certain cultural groups even use “nigger” without attracting any great backlash? It is all about context. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/70 "2014-09-14T19:01:10Z")
Turned out nice again then? So Ray Rice eh? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/71 "2014-09-14T19:52:21Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > :smack: > > You walked right into **OurLordPeace** ’s clever little trap. By agreeing to Gender Symmetry in a casual expression, you’ve logically proven that calling a woman girl is no different than calling a black person the n-word. Way to go, **Guin**. Well, you caught me out! I’m a big racist!!! (Usually, I don’t call men “boys”, it’s “guys” or “dudes”. That’s the same way I think of the word “girl” or “chick.” It’s just slang.) ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/72 "2014-09-15T02:54:26Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Irrelevant, I picked you up on the fact that “cunt” has no sexist connotations in the UK and Ireland. It is completely divorced from the original definition of the word. Like “fuck” is just a linguistic, sweary placeholder in the phrase “shut the fuck up!”. It doesn’t actually mean anything. > If you can’t accept that fact of that different cultures use words in different ways then I don’t know what to say. > You do know that certain cultural groups even use “nigger” without attracting any great backlash? It is all about context. This makes me think of two things. The first is a conversation about race that a group of us Occupiers were having one day, when one of our black comrades mentioned that, having been born in 1986, “nigger” didn’t necessarily carry the same cachet as it did for older people. The non-black members of the group seemed to uniformly express a sentiment that while that may be perfectly sensible for him, it still seemed completely wrong and unnecessary for any of them to speak that way. The second is this set of dialogue from the 1996 film _A Family Thing_, which notably depicts one white and one black character who might as well be the older people our comrade was thinking of: Raymond “Ray” Lee Murdock: Hey! Don’t go that way, you’re gonna wal straight into the worst parts! Earl Pilcher, Jr.: I don’t care! I ain’t scared of you or any other tough nigger that comes up! [a long awkward silence] Earl Pilcher, Jr.: Look, I didn’t mean it like that. Raymond “Ray” Lee Murdock: Only one way to mean it. In other words, it seems to me to display a great deal of privilege and arrogance to think that any of us can decide for others how they should feel about what we say. But all of this is actually beside the point, which is below: > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Well, you caught me out! I’m a big racist!!! > (Usually, I don’t call men “boys”, it’s “guys” or “dudes”. That’s the same way I think of the word “girl” or “chick.” It’s just slang.) The first part is not my point; I am not saying that you are racist. I mentioned that a bit earlier. No, my point is illustrated by your words in parentheses. The slang for men is quite different than for women. [“Guys” is not infantilizing and diminutive, but “girls” is.](http://chronicle.com/blogs/linguafranca/2013/03/27/guys-and/) All of this is a bit surprising to me, considering the numbers of situations I have been in in which referring to women as girls is taboo, or at least a point of contention. Actually, now that I think about it, I recall an anecdote from **even sven** ’s teaching days in China, in which she tried (with some success) to convince her college-age students that they were, in fact, women and not girls. ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/73 "2014-09-15T02:57:25Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > It’s easy for a neolithic throwback like you to deride the claims of womyn and men everywhere who are aware of semantic infiltration of our language designed to minimize and denigrate femayles everywhere. > > Perhaps a cretin like you is unaware of second-wave feminism, or the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival of 1975 where the term first gained popularity, but it _is_ a real thing, not something for you, a patriarchal oppressor to mock as merely a way to be “disingenuous”. > > The word “woman” is just an expansion of of the word “man”, which clearly implies that the identity of a womyn relies on man. By spelling womyn with a “Y”, there’s a recognition of the diverse roles/identities womyn can have and aren’t simply defined by a relationship to men. > > I’m sure that a testosterone poisoned thug like you won’t bother to actually read this link, but perhaps if you have any interest in expanding your mind, [you might want to take a look here for the reasoning behind the term](https://www.msu.edu/~womyn/alternative.html). Perhaps someone more enlightened can help you with the big words. > > ETA: And how _dare_ you, a man, try to limit how a womyn can choose to define herself. I’ve heard about all of that. From the timing and tone of your posts, I think I can be forgiven for being on guard against whooshes, as they are known around here. ---
**Author:** ![Boogly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Boogly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boogly)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/74 "2014-09-15T03:53:08Z")
In professional sports if people can perform there will be workarounds as long as the players are productive. [http://thinkprogress.org/sports/2014/09/09/3565086/here-are-the-two-other-domestic-violence-cases-facing-nfl-players-right-now/](http://thinkprogress.org/sports/2014/09/09/3565086/here-are-the-two-other-domestic-violence-cases-facing-nfl-players-right-now/) Greg Hardy > [@](#): > > In July, a judge found him guilty on both counts and handed him a 60-day suspended sentence and 18 months probation. Hardy’s sentence is currently on hold while he appeals for a jury trial. Ray McDonald > [@](#): > > McDonald was arrested on felony suspicion of domestic abuse on Sept. 1, making him the first player arrested on domestic violence charges after the NFL announced the new policy. McDonald was “involved in an altercation” with his **10 weeks-pregnant** fiancee during a birthday party at his home, according to the Sacramento Bee, and was arrested after police found bruises on her arms. McDonald has said that the “truth will come out” about the incident (bolding mine) As long as they produce numbers whoever is in charge will probably have enough reasons to keep athletes producing. The two court cases are not closed and there are almost assuredly details that I do not know. I think that Ray Rice will be back…he will go to treatments or therapy, he will be apologetic and a team will be sure that Ray Rice has changed and he will play again. Sadly I believe this will be a path for others to follow. Look at Mayweather (I admit I have a tiny bit of a hate-on for him): He may have gotten $31.4 million for his last fight that lasts a little bit over half of a single football game. [http://money.cnn.com/2014/09/10/news/companies/mayweather-domestic-abuse/](http://money.cnn.com/2014/09/10/news/companies/mayweather-domestic-abuse/) Mayweather has a history and he doesn’t care who thinks what he did is bad. [Deadspin | The Trouble With Floyd Mayweather](http://deadspin.com/the-trouble-with-floyd-mayweather-1605217498) TY **VarlosZ** for the link. Only God can judge me. [http://money.cnn.com/2014/09/10/news/companies/mayweather-domestic-abuse/](http://money.cnn.com/2014/09/10/news/companies/mayweather-domestic-abuse/) Professional Sports will have to come to a decision or it falls back to ABC…Always Be Closing. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kZg_ALxEz0) > [@](#): > > You think this is abuse? You think this is abuse, you cocksucker? You can’t take this – how can you take the abuse you get on a sit?! You don’t like it – leave. I can go out there tonight with the materials you got, make myself fifteen thousand dollars! Tonight! In two hours! Can you? Can you? If professional sports doesn’t come up with a hardline on this issue it will be a non-issue in the long run, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![buddy431](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@buddy431](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddy431)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/75 "2014-09-15T04:30:10Z")
They were both drunk, they got in a fight, and he hit her harder than she hit him. I’m not saying that it’s right, because it’s not, but is it criminal? How often do people go to jail for being in a fight? I honestly don’t know the answer to those questions. And of course, whether it’s criminal or not is quite different from whether the NFL should suspend him, but it seems pretty stupid the way they did it. We already knew he knocked out his girlfriend, and he was already punished for it. Many people thought his punishment (2 game suspension) was too light, which it probably was, so they made new rules calling for harsher punishment. Fine, no problem there. And then this video comes out, and he’s punished _again_ for the same incident, and in fact the punishment is more severe than even their new, less lenient rules. What’s the point of having set punishments for unruly players if you’re going to ignore them? ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/76 "2014-09-15T05:30:18Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > The word “woman” is just an expansion of of the word “man”, which clearly implies that the identity of a womyn relies on man. I am a strong supporter of feminist ideals, but in the interests of accuracy, I’m compelled to point out that this assertion [is not supported by the etymological facts.](http://thiswretchedhive.blogspot.com/2011/05/etymology-of-woman.html) ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/77 "2014-09-15T07:50:18Z")
re: **OurLordPeace** Well your reply doesn’t in any way deal with the points I made. I play football (veterans as it happens) and the term “boys” is used often. In the UK it is frequently used to refer to a collective of males and no infantilising is intended or peceived. So again, different cultures…different perceptions of what is and is not discriminatory, pejorative and prejudicial language. I don’t know if you’ve travelled into other english-speaking areas or work with a wide range of foreign english-speakers. If not, that might go some way to explaining your ignorance on this matter. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/78 "2014-09-15T12:00:21Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#): > > The slang for men is quite different than for women. [“Guys” is not infantilizing and diminutive, but “girls” is.](http://chronicle.com/blogs/linguafranca/2013/03/27/guys-and/) That’s why I prefer “dolls”. Guys & Dolls. _raises closed fist_ ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/79 "2014-09-15T15:44:14Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > re: **OurLordPeace** > > Well your reply doesn’t in any way deal with the points I made. > > I play football (veterans as it happens) and the term “boys” is used often. In the UK it is frequently used to refer to a collective of males and no infantilising is intended or peceived. So again, different cultures…different perceptions of what is and is not discriminatory, pejorative and prejudicial language. > > I don’t know if you’ve travelled into other english-speaking areas or work with a wide range of foreign english-speakers. If not, that might go some way to explaining your ignorance on this matter. I have travelled into other English-speaking areas, and I have worked with people from those locales, but actually I have usually encountered the sort of diction you describe in settings like a memorable line from _Trainspotting_ (“I knew that cunt was gonna fuck some cunt”) and an American volunteer in the Spanish Civil War describing his nearby British comrades (“Bad language common here. Everyone is a cunt [stupid].”) I realize how customary it is in many places, but that doesn’t make it OK. That’s the problem, really. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/80 "2014-09-15T16:23:32Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#): > > I have travelled into other English-speaking areas, and I have worked with people from those locales, but actually I have usually encountered the sort of diction you describe in settings like a memorable line from _Trainspotting_ (“I knew that cunt was gonna fuck some cunt”) and an American volunteer in the Spanish Civil War describing his nearby British comrades (“Bad language common here. Everyone is a cunt [stupid].”) I realize how customary it is in many places, but that doesn’t make it OK. That’s the problem, really. So the problem is that a term that was once used to denigrate women has, in some more working-class neighborhoods, become a gender neutral insult? Instead of a misogynistic term? And therefore, you’ve chosen to act as an American imperialist, policing the world and trying to impose your middle-class, American cultural, linguistic and moral values upon every other culture and social strata? That must be a trying task. But you and Kipling can bear up under the White Man’s Burden to civilize the rest of the world to your bourgeois standards. Moreover, why in the world are you trying to remake a word that in a somewhat less sexist culture (slightly less, granted) had become a gender neutral term that is completely divorced from it’s original meaning back _into_ yet another anti-womyn pejorative? Because…there aren’t enough misogynistic terms already? Again, why do your white, middle-class, American values trump those of working class Scots and Irish folk? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247.md?page=5)