# Fuck Ray Rice. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 11, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247 "2014-09-11T23:54:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/81 "2014-09-15T16:42:52Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#): > > I have travelled into other English-speaking areas, and I have worked with people from those locales, but actually I have usually encountered the sort of diction you describe in settings like a memorable line from _Trainspotting_ (“I knew that cunt was gonna fuck some cunt”) and an American volunteer in the Spanish Civil War describing his nearby British comrades (“Bad language common here. Everyone is a cunt [stupid].”) I realize how customary it is in many places, but that doesn’t make it OK. That’s the problem, really. OK, so you understand. Well then I can’t offer any advice other than to suggest earplugs and a rare ointment that allows the growth of a thicker skin. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/82 "2014-09-15T17:59:33Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Moreover, why in the world are you trying to remake a word that in a somewhat less sexist culture (slightly less, granted) had become a gender neutral term that is completely divorced from it’s original meaning back _into_ yet another anti-womyn pejorative? Because he hates womyn. > [@](#): > > Again, why do your white, middle-class, American values trump those of working class Scots and Irish folk? Yeah, **OurLordPeace** , you need to check your privilege. Dickhead. And Ray Rice is a cunt. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/83 "2014-09-15T18:23:54Z")
> [@buddy431](#): > > They were both drunk, they got in a fight, and he hit her harder than she hit him. I’m not saying that it’s right, because it’s not, but is it criminal? How often do people go to jail for being in a fight? I honestly don’t know the answer to those questions. > > … Well, around these parts the winner goes to jail and the loser goes to the hospital. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/84 "2014-09-15T19:19:34Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#): > > The first part is not my point; I am not saying that you are racist. I mentioned that a bit earlier. No, my point is illustrated by your words in parentheses. The slang for men is quite different than for women. [“Guys” is not infantilizing and diminutive, but “girls” is.](http://chronicle.com/blogs/linguafranca/2013/03/27/guys-and/) All of this is a bit surprising to me, considering the numbers of situations I have been in in which referring to women as girls is taboo, or at least a point of contention. > > Actually, now that I think about it, I recall an anecdote from **even sven** ’s teaching days in China, in which she tried (with some success) to convince her college-age students that they were, in fact, women and not girls. Oh Jesus. That’s got to be one of the most pretentious things I’ve ever read. Here’s the thing though that gets me: if that’s how YOU feel, fine. But quit going around and correcting posters EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME they use the term “girl”. It’s annoying and condescending. And the idea that the word “cunt” it somehow worse than calling someone a “dick” is, to my mind, sexist in itself. Also, you’re not from the U.K., or Ireland, don’t presume you know better about their culture. Oh, and GIRL POWER!!! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/85 "2014-09-15T19:35:17Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Oh Jesus. That’s got to be one of the most pretentious things I’ve ever read. > > Here’s the thing though that gets me: if that’s how YOU feel, fine. But quit going around and correcting posters EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME they use the term “girl”. It’s annoying and condescending. And the idea that the word “cunt” it somehow worse than calling someone a “dick” is, to my mind, sexist in itself. > > Also, you’re not from the U.K., or Ireland, don’t presume you know better about their culture. > > Oh, and GIRL POWER!!! 😛 I believe in the universality of ethics. I don’t make excuses for behaviors by saying that it’s just part of somebody’s culture, so that makes it OK. That’s far more condescending than anything I’ve said: “Oh, they just can’t help being that way. It’s their culture.” Isn’t saying “that’s the way it’s always been” the ubiquitous excuse given to justify oppressive behavior? So, especially in a discussion of violence against women, shouldn’t we all be respectful enough to not infantilize them? Shouldn’t we also not be thinking that it’s insulting to call a man a term for female genitals (or vice versa; there’s no reason why “cunt” is worse than “dick” _per se_)? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/86 "2014-09-15T19:39:52Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Oh, and GIRL POWER!!! 😛 Hey, umm, I think you left out a couple of "r"s there. Or something. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/87 "2014-09-15T19:42:43Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#): > > there’s no reason why “cunt” is worse than “dick” _per se_)? Well, I know a guy whose _name_ is Dick. No women(sic) I know go by the moniker “Cunt”. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/88 "2014-09-15T19:44:32Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#): > > I > So, especially in a discussion of violence against women, shouldn’t we all be respectful enough to not infantilize them? Shouldn’t we also not be thinking that it’s insulting to call a man a term for female genitals (or vice versa; there’s no reason why “cunt” is worse than “dick” _per se_)? I don’t feel in any way, shape, or form, “infantilized”, and I resent you trying to speak for women everywhere. And of course it’s insulting. It’s SUPPOSED to be insulting. That’s why it’s called an insult! Not because it’s male, or female, but because you’re calling someone human genitalia, no matter what sex it is! God, you’re such a pussy! ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/89 "2014-09-15T19:50:44Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I don’t feel in any way, shape, or form, “infantilized”, and I resent you trying to speak for women everywhere. Now, now little girl no need to worry your pretty little head. Why don’t you run along and play hopscotch, the Men folk are talking. ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/90 "2014-09-16T02:06:06Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I don’t feel in any way, shape, or form, “infantilized”, and I resent you trying to speak for women everywhere. That’s great, but I’ve encountered resentment-at-being-called-girls enough times, and from enough women, firsthand/secondhand/thirdhand, that I feel comfortable speaking in solidarity with them, if not with all women. > [@](#): > > And of course it’s insulting. It’s SUPPOSED to be insulting. That’s why it’s called an insult! Not because it’s male, or female, but because you’re calling someone human genitalia, no matter what sex it is! > > God, you’re such a pussy! I’m attaching specific significance to calling somebody the opposite sex’s genitalia, as if there’s something wrong with that. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/91 "2014-09-16T03:54:15Z")
So if I call you a dick, it’s not an insult? Look, I’m tired of this hijack, so this is the last post I’m making on this: First, this has nothing to do with “cultural relativism.” It’s all about linguistics. Or context. Some words are used differently in different areas. Hell, you could say the same about the U.S.!\* There are words and gestures we use here that are considered offensive in other countries. IIRC, in some countries, the “thumbs up” gesture is supposed to be vulgure. Same with the “a-ok” hand sign. Also, did you know there’s a town in Austria called “Fucking”? Does that mean we should go over there and tell them that they should change their name, because it’s vulgar and offensive to some people? And what makes “cunt” so special? The word “twat” isn’t considered nearly as offensive. What about asshole? That’s basically gender neutral, since both males and females have them. Seriously, language is complex, it’s not “offensive” and “not offensive”. Granted, there will always be some words that are universally understood to be one or the other. But for the most part, it’s much more diverse. And now, if you want to continue this conversation, open a new thread, since this one is supposed to be about Ray Rice. Who is a giant douchebag. \*Come visit Pittsburgh sometime – we practically have our own language. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/92 "2014-09-16T04:12:01Z")
Wow. I think OurLordPeace has topped even me. Even when my sanctimony was at its worst, I never once tried to argue that the word “cunt” is misogynist. And the idea that, even if it were, apply it to women would make it okay? How can an insult towards women (aka misogynist insult) be okay when directed towards women? That would be like saying it’s okay to use the word “fag,” but only towards actual gay people. I’m even on board with the idea that there is a sort of objective morality. But there’s no way it applies with something involving language. It _can’t_, because language is always changing. Calling someone a /kʌnt/ can’t be universally wrong, because the meaning of those phonemes can be different in different languages. I thought I was a sanctimonious prick, but you take the cake. (And as I’m pretty sure you are male, so “prick” should acceptable. What an oddly relative absolute morality.) And while I was composing that, Guin said basically the same thing, down to the idea of a reference to male genitalia being acceptable. I hope she doesn’t feel dirty… ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2014, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247/93 "2014-09-21T00:31:01Z")
It’s interesting what stories get picked up due to the vagaries of the news cycle. The situation is a little different since the NFL is more popular than the NBA and there’s video, but no one gave a shit a couple years ago when Lance Stephenson pushed his girlfriend down the stairs. No media firestorm. No calls for him to be excommunicated from the league. He’s still considered a good but hot tempered guy. And guys do call each other boy…sometimes. Usually as a group. “What are we doing tonight, boys?” “He’s just one of the boys.” But if you go around calling individual dudes “boy” like women call each other “girl” you’ll either come off as hitting on them or a racist from the 1950s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-ray-rice/698247.md?page=4)