# Fuck respecting cultural differences! Basic human rights are real! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 1, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460 "2010-06-01T04:04:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/61 "2010-06-01T20:47:05Z")
If only there had been an attempt to fundamentally change the culture of Afghanistan … oh wait, > [@](#): > > [The Saur Revolution](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saur_Revolution) (Persian: انقلاب ثور) (also written Sawr Revolution) is the name given to the Communist People’s Democratic Party of Afghanistan (PDPA) takeover of political power in Afghanistan on 27 April 1978. The word ‘Saur’ refers to the Dari name of the second month of the Persian calendar, the month in which the uprising took place. … > … Once in power, the party moved to permit freedom of religion and place agricultural resources under state control. They also made a number of ambitious statements on women’s rights and waived farmers’ debts countrywide. The majority of people in the cities, including Kabul, either welcomed the change or were ambivalent to these policies. However, the secular nature of the government made it unpopular with religiously conservative Afghans in the villages and the countryside, who favored traditional Islamic restrictions on women’s rights and in daily life. Their opposition became particularly pronounced after the Soviet Union occupied the country in late December 1979, who feared the government was in danger of being toppled by mujahideen forces. … and if only team America, maybe just once, chose the right side to support, > [@](#): > > … The U.S. saw the situation as a prime opportunity to weaken the Soviet Union, and the move essentially signaled the end of the détente era initiated by former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger. In 1978 the United States began training insurgents and directing propaganda broadcasts into Afghanistan from Pakistan. Then, in early 1979, U.S. foreign service officers began meeting insurgent leaders to determine their needs. According to the then US Secretary of State Zbigniew Brzezinski, CIA aid to the insurgents within Afghanistan was approved in July 1979, six months before the Soviet Invasion. Brzezinski said that aid to the insurgents, begun under the Carter administration with the intention of provoking Soviet intervention, was significantly boosted under the Reagan administration, which was committed to actively rolling back Soviet influence in the Third World. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/62 "2010-06-01T23:31:50Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Falls out of her crotch? Fuck you. Sideways. With something sharp and rusty. Reminder: [QUOTE=Restricted language in the Pit] The following expressions should not be directed at other posters. * * * fuck you [/QUOTE] > **[Restricted language in the Pit](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508858)** > > The following expressions should not be directed at other posters. cunt and variants, e.g., cuntlapper motherfucker cocksucker fuck you and variants, e.g., go fuck yourself, fuck off and die suck/lick my dick/cock and variants Expressions not... No warning issued. **Gfactor** Pit Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/63 "2010-06-01T23:47:18Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > If only there had been an attempt to fundamentally change the culture of Afghanistan … oh wait,and if only team America, maybe just once, chose the right side to support, Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/64 "2010-06-01T23:50:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But let’s not go crazy and add basic human rights for unborn women, ok? I’m willing to stipulate that unborn women have a right to not be sold into marriages against their wills, and a right to not be forced carry a pregnancy to term against their wills. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/65 "2010-06-02T02:41:40Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I’m willing to stipulate that unborn women have a right to not be sold into marriages against their wills, and a right to not be forced carry a pregnancy to term against their wills. Now that’s just crazy talk! There are icky old men out there panting for their fetal brides, and who are we to say them nay? I also have to say that someday I expect some fundie scientist to figure out how to make sure all female babies are actually born pregnant. I will probably go ahead and kill that guy. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/66 "2010-06-02T02:48:17Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > Now that’s just crazy talk! There are icky old men out there panting for their fetal brides, and who are we to say them nay? They’re way easy to keep barefoot. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/67 "2010-06-02T02:52:43Z")
There is a somewhat more eloquent (minus the bombing random innocent people to oblivion part) version of the OPs rant by Sam Harris in a TED talk titled ‘Science can answer moral questions’ Itunes podcast URL for TED talks [http://feeds.feedburner.com/TEDTalks\_video](http://feeds.feedburner.com/TEDTalks_video) Worth listening to. PCM ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/68 "2010-06-02T04:04:13Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Yeah, unless the penis-owning person bitching about abortion is busy adopting or otherwise caring for the unwanted children already in the world, I write off their concern for the unborn as concern about losing the one surefire way men always counted on for keeping women in line. > > But they don’t really need to worry too much, women like it, so they’ll always do it, and it will always temper the social, financial, political and other non-family based power gains that women make in the world. I’m not sure if I’m reading this right, but are you saying: 1. that any man who gets a woman pregnant is only doing it to ‘keep her in line’, and not out of a genuine shared desire for children? and 1. that any woman who has children has given up on making social, financial, or political contributions to society? Look, I am firmly pro-choice (and female), and I would love to see abortions freely available for anyone who chose them anywhere in the world. But I don’t think the attitude, seemingly held by many fervent pro-choicers and feminists, that choosing to have children is keeping womankind in the dark ages is helpful. If you want women to have choice, you have to accept that some women are going to choose to get married and have children, and even to stay at home while their husband works. It is obviously ideal when women can attain an education, hold positions of power, etc. (which is possible even with children), and I’d love to see that be possible all over the world, but not everyone wants those things. If the final goal of your brand of feminism is that all women should be eschewing traditional roles, then it is restrictive in its own way. Forcing everyone into making the choice you feel is right is just the same as them having no choice at all. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/69 "2010-06-02T04:51:45Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > I’m not sure if I’m reading this right, but are you saying: > > 1. that any man who gets a woman pregnant is only doing it to ‘keep her in line’, and not out of a genuine shared desire for children? No. and > [@](#): > > 1. that any woman who has children has given up on making social, financial, or political contributions to society? No. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/70 "2010-06-02T06:33:41Z")
Well _that_ was illuminating, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/71 "2010-06-02T06:37:24Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Having said that, I say also that there is such a thing as basic human rights. These include the right not to have your genitals maimed, and the right not to be forced to submit to rape, cook, clean and bear the children of your rapist, and be forced to call him your husband. > > And if you seize your right by fleeing the rape, you have a right not to be [beaten](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/31/world/asia/31flogging.html) for doing so. Evidentally, there aren’t those rights in Afghanistan for women. Obviously, you think there should be, and that it’s wrong to maim genitals, force someone to submit to rape, etc, but when you say that basic human rights are “real”, what do you mean? Do you mean anything beyond just that you have moral objections to those practices? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/72 "2010-06-02T14:52:15Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I think for most people it goes without saying they judge rape and brutality as wrong and as such it’s not necessary for them to say so when writing about the people who do it. Very few histories of the Holocaust begin with anything equivalent to the historian saying “Just so everybody knows, I am completely against what the Nazis did”. Yeah, but the diifference is, people did eventually go and kick the shit out of the Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/73 "2010-06-02T14:54:42Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > Now that’s just crazy talk! There are icky old men out there panting for their fetal brides, and who are we to say them nay? > > I also have to say that someday I expect some fundie scientist to figure out how to make sure all female babies are actually born pregnant. I will probably go ahead and kill that guy. Need a witness to swear you were somewhere else when it happened? (wink wink) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/74 "2010-06-02T14:56:41Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Evidentally, there aren’t those rights in Afghanistan for women. Obviously, you think there should be, and that it’s wrong to maim genitals, force someone to submit to rape, etc, but when you say that basic human rights are “real”, what do you mean? Do you mean anything beyond just that you have moral objections to those practices? You’re really asserting people don’t have inherent natural rights over their own body? Were slaves rights being violated even though the government allowed it? You really think woman don’t have a right to protection from what this [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=565469) is about? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/75 "2010-06-02T16:11:24Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > You’re really asserting people don’t have inherent natural rights over their own body? Were slaves rights being violated even though the government allowed it? > > You really think woman don’t have a right to protection from what this [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=565469) is about? I’m asserting that people don’t have inherent natural rights at all. “Rights” are a moral construct and people have the rights that the society says they have. The woman in the thread you linked to has the power to go to the Spanish police and get the person who did that to her arrested, and if he’s convicted, he’ll be sent to prison. I think that’s a good thing, and I think that its bad that the women in Afghanistan can’t do that, but I’m not going to pretend that that’s anything other than my subjective moral viewpoint. So when you say, “Were slaves rights being violated even though the government allowed it?”, I don’t know how to answer that question. What’s the difference between me saying “yes” and “no”? ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/76 "2010-06-02T16:25:23Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Are there really any cultural relativists in the world? It certainly isn’t anything I’ve ever encountered in my liberal, academic background, or heard about from my liberal, social worker wife with her undergrad degree in Anthropology. I never heard it defended in the Anthropology or Sociology courses I took in college, I’ve never heard it defended by politicians of any stripe or even casually by personal aquaintances. > > The only time I’ve heard anything close is from Fundamentalist Biblical apologists making excuses for Old Testament atrocities. > > The idea that cultural relativism is some sacred tenant of political liberalism (or that the sentiment even exists at _all_ among liberals) is, I think, complete mythology. > > It was western feminists who were decrying the Taliban long before conservatives ever cared, and it’s liberals who have always condemned female genital mutilation, violent homophobia and other 'cultural" human rights abuses across the world. > > Who are these alleged liberal defenders of “cultural relativism” anyway? Can anyone name a prominent one? Many years ago I opened a thread similar to this one where I called a culture that practiced the atrocities the OP mentioned “sub-human”, and I caught a shitful of grief from the SDDB community. So find that thread in the archives and you can consider all the posters who piled on me as “defenders of cultural relativism”. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/77 "2010-06-02T16:32:37Z")
How should I know what thread you’re referring to? What were the “practices,” and what was the content and context of those responses? My guess is no one was defending whatever the particular practice was, but your generalization of all people of a similar culture (I’m going to go out on a limb and guess it was Muslims), and the racially charged nature of a word like “sub-human” being applied to an ethnicity. Am I close? If not, you’ll have to link the thread. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/78 "2010-06-02T17:45:17Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Need a witness to swear you were somewhere else when it happened? (wink wink) Friends help you move house, real friends help you move the body 😛 ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/79 "2010-06-02T18:38:43Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > How should I know what thread you’re referring to? What were the “practices,” and what was the content and context of those responses? > > My guess is no one was defending whatever the particular practice was, but your generalization of all people of a similar culture (I’m going to go out on a limb and guess it was Muslims), and the racially charged nature of a word like “sub-human” being applied to an ethnicity. > > Am I close? If not, you’ll have to link the thread. You are close. I called the people who desecrated American soldier corpses “sub-humans”, and got threatened by a mod who’s name I will not mention. I’m surprised the OP hasn’t been likewise theatened. So, it appears people cannot vent here in the pit without inviting debate; I stopped trying after ranting about the Egyptian who was going to be beheaded for sorcery in Saudi Arabia, and again, the cultural apologists appeared. But I had/have no desire to debate my opinion. If I wanted to do that I would have opened a GD thread. Maybe the OP would have been better off in GD. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/80 "2010-06-02T19:13:37Z")
I doubt that anybody defended the desecration of dead US soldiers as a cultural practice, or defended it at all. I am equally sure that nobody defended beheading people for sorcery. Are you sure you understand what “cultural relativism” means. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460.md?page=5)