# Fuck respecting cultural differences! Basic human rights are real! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 1, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460 "2010-06-01T04:04:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/141 "2010-06-04T04:24:43Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > Dude, I was just agreeing with you a few posts ago. There’s no reason to suddenly be an asshole about it. > > Anyways, substitute ‘personal moral beliefs’ with ‘personal beliefs of what is best for society’, if that’s what floats your boat. Does that make you feel like a big man? :rolleyes: Sure, that works in a pure intra-society context. But our esteemed OP is discussing “basic human rights” that exist of their own accord in a context-less void that crosses all temporal and societal boundaries. “Morality” (er, I mean “robotic chocolate”) in that context is completely meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/142 "2010-06-04T04:29:39Z")
Dude - read my post #103: > [@Meyer6](#): > > there really is no point in sitting back and calling people vile scum because they are violating what you percive as natural human rights. You can freely rail against their moral code, and attempt to enact or encourage change to that code, but trying to claim the whole matter of that moral code is a biological absolute is the wrong approach IMHO. You are agreeing with exactly the same position I have been arguing since well before you even showed up in the thread. I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE OP. There is no reason to attack me as though I do. It would be nice if you read the thread before you came in swinging. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/143 "2010-06-04T04:45:57Z")
(Can anyone recall a thread that devolved into personal attacks so completely? How very un-Dope!) ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/144 "2010-06-04T07:17:35Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Stoid, if your idea is that it would be a good thing if there were an actual world government (i.e., a body that represents everybody and that has the power to pass laws and punish violators), then that would be something. That would put some color in the crayon. But that’s not what you were previously discussing in this thread. Sure it is. If we (mostly) agree on some simple core no-nos, then enforcing them through some kind of (mostly) agreed-upon method, who cares what we call it? It’s the next level of “government”: worldwide. And in response to any and all continued assertions about how hard it is for people to agree: DUH. That’s why I think we should keep it SIMPLE. Is anyone going to argue that any cohesive 25% of the planet is going to disagree with the idea that freedom from grievous bodily harm and enslavement is the most basic things that any innocent human being can hope to call a right? If not that, then what? If it really is hopeless to think we can get some kind of (majority) agreement on the topic of extreme bodily violence and enslavement… then the whole subject should be dropped by everyone everywhere. But it isn’t. The topic is very much alive. But nothing comes of it. I’m saying is that if the idea of human rights is stripped to the bare essentials, it might have a chance of taking hold. But if we try to venture into freedom of speech, religion, parenting, economics, education… **THAT** is pointless white noise that means nothing and goes nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/145 "2010-06-04T07:21:21Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > No remember dummy? The women are all in charge. We declare wars for you to fight and make you steal and kill. Go look it up yourself lazy servant. And don’t fucking talk to me unless I address you first, loser. Oh dear…bad form. Very bad form. You made the assertion. Pit or no, it’s on you to back it up or withdraw it. And remember I’m no fan. (If you were wrong you’d look better admitting it than becoming abusive and dismissive of Paul. People make mistakes, no big. ) ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/146 "2010-06-04T07:29:18Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Sure, that works in a pure intra-society context. But our esteemed OP is discussing “basic human rights” that exist of their own accord in a context-less void that crosses all temporal and societal boundaries. “Morality” (er, I mean “robotic chocolate”) in that context is completely meaningless. I think you are doing a bit of padding, expanding, and assuming. My OP was a rant. I’ve since clarified what I mean, and I haven’t said that basic human rights exist of their own accord. I’ve said that most people feel pretty similarly about some very basic things (do I have to repeat them again: KILLING TORTURE MAIMING RAPING AND ENSLAVEMENT). Not everyone, obviously. But most, to some degree if not completely. Therefore it seems possible and worthwhile to declare and enforce the protection of that minimal standard for everyone. And I even allowed for different societies’ willingness to punish with death, maiming, etc - it’s just limited to punishment for those who violate those rules. No cutting off hands for stealing, that’s a violation of the Planetary Laws to Protect All Human Beings. Someone steals, you can make them miserable in other ways. Someone kills, you can kill them if you must. Someone tortures and maims…well, I don’t approve, but you can torture and maim them right back. Super simple. Very minimal standard. And no claims that these rights “just exist”. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/147 "2010-06-04T07:36:04Z")
There are no “basic human rights”. The reason being, an effective organisation for their guarantee has not been created yet. But there are basic human needs, and anyone depriving another of any of these without justifiable cause, should be made accountable. That is the situation we are working towards. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/148 "2010-06-04T13:14:37Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > There are no “basic human rights”. The reason being, an effective organisation for their guarantee has not been created yet. But there are basic human needs, and anyone depriving another of any of these without justifiable cause, should be made accountable. That is the situation we are working towards. Why, if there are no rights? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/149 "2010-06-04T16:14:06Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > Why, if there are no rights? Because we are by nature social animals and we are innately concerned, to one degree or another, with our fellow beings. And that concern stems in part from our understanding of the fact that if we don’t protect them, they won’t protect us. Is that down to the moral-free primate level enough for you? ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/150 "2010-06-04T16:37:50Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Oh dear…bad form. Very bad form. > > You made the assertion. Pit or no, it’s on you to back it up or withdraw it. And remember I’m no fan. > > (If you were wrong you’d look better admitting it than becoming abusive and dismissive of Paul. People make mistakes, no big. ) It was a joke, actually. I don’t really think of Paul as a servant or a loser, well ok, I do think he’s a loser. I don’t remember his exact words, it was when he was back in the US for a while. He lamented about his disapproval of how the women here dressed. I did a quick search but couldn’t find it. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/151 "2010-06-05T00:14:09Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > And in response to any and all continued assertions about how hard it is for people to agree: DUH. That’s why I think we should keep it SIMPLE. Is anyone going to argue that any cohesive 25% of the planet is going to disagree with the idea that freedom from grievous bodily harm and enslavement is the most basic things that any innocent human being can hope to call a right? If not that, then what? > > If it really is hopeless to think we can get some kind of (majority) agreement on the topic of extreme bodily violence and enslavement… then the whole subject should be dropped by everyone everywhere. But it isn’t. The topic is very much alive. But nothing comes of it. I’m saying is that if the idea of human rights is stripped to the bare essentials, it might have a chance of taking hold. Okay - 25% of the world needs to agree. Let’s say, oh, most of North America, Europe, Australia, and New Zealand. Great! Now, what are you going to do about the places that won’t agree - the Afganistans on the world? How will we compel them to go along with this idea? It’s all fine and well to say that there are rules, but what are you planning to do when they violate your ‘Planetary Laws to Protect All Human Beings’? How can we punish people who live under a government that condones their actions? We are already bombing them to smithereens, so I’m not sure how else we should make them suffer. And, even ignoring the Middle East and it’s issues, what about the people here at home who disagree with you? What about people who’s religion tells them that abortion is murder (I am not one of them, BTW, just playing devils advocate) - what happens when they want the murder rule invoked to kill abortionists, who in their eyes are killers themselves? Where does the death penalty fit into this - many people feel that that is wrong, even as a punishment for murder, but under your rules it’s a-okay. What about people who want to take your system one step farther and say no vengeance-type punishments (death, torture, etc.)? Don’t you see how even your ‘simple’ system is fraught with flaws? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/152 "2010-06-05T01:29:16Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > … we are innately concerned, to one degree or another, with our fellow beings. And that concern stems in part from our understanding of the fact that if we don’t protect them, they won’t protect us. … > [@](#): > > If I am not for myself, who will be for me? > If I am only for myself, what am I? > And if not now, when? > [Hillel the Elder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_the_Elder) c. **110BCE-10CE** Everything is taking longer than we fucking thought. ☹ CMC fnord! Guess we know which book the fourteen-year old Hillel read … the one that involves [orcs](http://discordianquotes.com/quote/novels-change-bookish-fourteen-year-olds-life-lord). 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/153 "2010-06-05T02:31:48Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > Don’t you see how even your ‘simple’ system is fraught with flaws? I know, that crazy stoid and her wacky ideas! What silly crap will she come up with next? It’s still WAY simpler than what it would replace, which is the UN’s [idea](http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml) of human rights, as follows. I have highlighted some things the general assembly of the UN wants to impose on all the people of the world that I wouldn’t dream of even though I agree with them, simply because it’s getting too detailed and complex to ever be workable as a worldwide standard. > [@](#): > > Article 1. > > All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood. > ^ Top > > Article 2. > > Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty. > ^ Top > > Article 3. > > Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person. > ^ Top > > Article 4. > > No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms. > ^ Top > > Article 5. > > No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. > ^ Top > > Article 6. > > Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law. > ^ Top > > Article 7. > > All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination. > ^ Top > > Article 8. > > Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law. > ^ Top > > Article 9. > > No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile. > ^ Top > > Article 10. > > \*\* Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him. > ^ Top > \*\* > Article 11. > > \*\*\*\* (1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence. > (2) No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed. > ^ Top\*\* > \*\* > Article 12. > > \*\* No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks. > ^ Top > \*\* > Article 13. > > \*\*(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state. > (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country. > ^ Top > \*\* > Article 14. > > \*\* (1) Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution. > (2) This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations. > ^ Top\*\* > > Article 15. > > \*\* (1) Everyone has the right to a nationality. > (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality. > ^ Top > \*\* > Article 16. > > \*\* (1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution. > (2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses. > (3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State. > ^ Top > > Article 17. > > (1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others. > (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property. > ^ Top > \*\* > \*\*Article 18. > > Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance. > ^ Top > > Article 19. > > Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers. > ^ Top > > Article 20. > > (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association. > (2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association. > ^ Top > > Article 21. > > (1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives. > (2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country. > (3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures. > ^ Top > > Article 22. > > Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality. > ^ Top > > Article 23. > > (1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment. > (2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work. > (3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection. > (4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests. > ^ Top > \*\* > Article 24. > > \*\* Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay. > ^ Top\*\* :eek: > > Article 25. > \*\* > (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. > (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection. > ^ Top > > Article 26. > > (1) Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit. > (2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace. > (3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children. > ^ Top > > Article 27. > > (1) Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits. > (2) Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author. > ^ Top > > Article 28. > > Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized. > ^ Top > > Article 29. > > (1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible. > (2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society. > (3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations. > ^ Top > > Article 30. > > Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.\*\* Yeah, I’m living in a wacky dream world filled with meaningless white pages of nothingness… a blur of noise… I say again: MY idea of what constitutes human rights is something we could PROBABLY get sufficient agreement on to MEAN something. The UN is masturbating. For a good cause, yes, but it’s still masturbating. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/154 "2010-06-05T02:49:36Z")
Stoid, you are also masturbating. You’ve sprayed smegma and lube all over this thread. At least the UN has actual troops. Your idea is just some vague notion that people should make citizen’s arrests or something when someone violates your “simple rules.” And about those simple rules–they ain’t so simple. I think that most people would agree that maiming and torturing and killing are only bad when those actions are not justified. Justification is in the eye of the beer holder, thus rendering your simple rules fraught with complications. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/155 "2010-06-05T03:06:58Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Stoid, you are also masturbating. You’ve sprayed smegma and lube all over this thread. At least the UN has actual troops. Your idea is just some vague notion that people should make citizen’s arrests or something when someone violates your “simple rules.” > > And about those simple rules–they ain’t so simple. I think that most people would agree that maiming and torturing and killing are only bad when those actions are not justified. Justification is in the eye of the beer holder, thus rendering your simple rules fraught with complications. People should read before they speak, it’s really helpful at preventing waste. As you can see, the very post which introduced my idea addressed both of your concerns directly and specifically. Almost like I could see it coming… downright amazing. > [@Stoid](#): > > The terminology seems to trip us up. “human rights”. > > How about “Human Laws”: **we formally embrace just one additional level of human organization/agreement/consensus/society/culture capable of** coming to agreement about rules: the species level. Not everyone in a given country agrees with all the laws, but enough do so that becomes law of the country. Well, I think that most of us should agree on very simple and straightforward law at the level of species itself. Instead of calling it “Human Rights”, call it “Human Laws”. Instead of the body that agreed to it being a city or country, it’s the whole planet of people. > > Simply stated: all members of the species \*homo sapiens \* should be able to expect not to be killed, maimed, raped, tortured, or enslaved against their will, by anyone or any organized body, from family to school to church to city-state-country. > > So if a given member of the species, anywhere on the planet, is innocent of killing, maiming, torturing, raping, or enslaving anyone else, yet they are being killed/maimed/tortured/raped/enslaved by others, the rest of the species should agree that actions taken to rescue such innocent persons from their fate are reasonable and supported, as well as agreeing to actions taken to pressure who or whatever needs pressuring to prevent any such abuses from taking place to begin with. > > I think this is a very reasonable and do-able level of agreement to seek from humanity as a whole, and if we achieve agreement with 75% of the world about it, then the other 25% need to know they are taking their chances with the rest of us when they kill/maim/rape/torture/enslave anyone of any age, gender or origin who is innocent of killing/maiming/raping/torturing or enslaving anyone else. They are committing crimes against the species, instead of crimes against the state. And members of the species, **formed into states, will kick your ass.** > > \*\*So if some country wants to torture and hack to pieces a person who raped little girls and shot their daddies… ok. Even though WE might not torture or allow torture inside our borders, I think we can agree that some cultures feel differently in the specific context of people who have violated the “species norms”, in the same way that the death penalty is “ok for you, not me” when dealing with murderers. > > But the death penalty for women who piss off their husbands? No. Defining crimes in your society as worth of death or torture, etc. should be limited by what we all agree are crimes: killing, maiming,raping,torturing, enslaving. You don’t get to stone people to death for having consensual sex, fuck you, and if you do, expect a righteous smackdown that will fuck you up and make you think twice about it next time, ok?\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/156 "2010-06-05T05:56:28Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I know, that crazy stoid and her wacky ideas! What silly crap will she come up with next? > Yeah, I’m living in a wacky dream world filled with meaningless white pages of nothingness… a blur of noise… How about you address the rest of my post and not just the last sentence? And BTW, I don’t think your ideas are _wrong_ per se, I just think they are utterly unworkable. There is a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/157 "2010-06-05T06:25:59Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > How about you address the rest of my post and not just the last sentence? > > And BTW, I don’t think your ideas are _wrong_ per se, I just think they are utterly unworkable. There is a difference. I have addressed them. I’m not going to keep saying the same thing different ways. Read what I’ve said. My point is and remains: my idea of human rights stands a better chance of adoption than the one that actually exists and is being promoted. Take those 30 articles and strip away 25 of em, and you’d stand a much better shot of selling it to the whole world than the West-centric excess the UN has come up with. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/158 "2010-06-05T08:06:34Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I have addressed them. I’m not going to keep saying the same thing different ways. Read what I’ve said. > > My point is and remains: my idea of human rights stands a better chance of adoption than the one that actually exists and is being promoted. Take those 30 articles and strip away 25 of em, and you’d stand a much better shot of selling it to the whole world than the West-centric excess the UN has come up with. You haven’t addressed them, and I have read what you’ve said. Not once have you said what you propose as punishment for countries that will not agree to this pact - surely a law is only as good if there are consequences for breaking it. Anyways, you are clearly not interested in debating the logistics of the idea. So, how about this - if your idea is so simple and so obvious, why do you think it is that the UN has not tried such a thing? They’ve been around since 1945, and they have yet to stop all these atrocities you claim are simple to solve. This is an organization peopled by proffesionals from around the world, educated in International Relations. What do you know that they don’t? ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/159 "2010-06-05T08:28:11Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > You haven’t addressed them, and I have read what you’ve said. Not once have you said what you propose as punishment for countries that will not agree to this pact - surely a law is only as good if there are consequences for breaking it. Denying them a place at the dining table the world eats from would be a start. And I don’t mean blockades on the country involved, I mean specific targeting of all a country’s shakers and movers, intended to cramp their lifestyles considerably. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460/160 "2010-06-05T09:25:14Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > It was a joke, actually. I don’t really think of Paul as a servant or a loser, well ok, I do think he’s a loser. > > I don’t remember his exact words, it was when he was back in the US for a while. He lamented about his disapproval of how the women here dressed. I did a quick search but couldn’t find it. I simply never said any such thing. You are lying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-respecting-cultural-differences-basic-human-rights-are-real/541460.md?page=9)