# Fuck the Baby Boomers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212 "2011-07-16T03:00:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/341 "2011-07-21T20:46:49Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Wait, you want me to _name names_? I thought your generation frowned on that sort of thing. No, of course I don’t want you to! Just pointing out that you can’t. And so far as I know, my “generation” doesn’t have a unified view about much of anything. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/342 "2011-07-21T20:54:22Z")
Well, if we are going to get all lyrical and all: Come mothers and fathers Throughout the land And don’t criticize What you can’t understand Your sons and your daughters Are beyond your command Your old road is Rapidly agin’ Please get out of the new one If you can’t lend your hand For the times they are a-changin’. (Of course, now every time I hear this song I see The Comedian blowing away Kennedy from the Grassy Knoll, but that’s a different issue) -XT ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/343 "2011-07-21T21:30:20Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > No, of course I don’t want you to! Just pointing out that you can’t. And so far as I know, my “generation” doesn’t have a unified view about much of anything. Bullshit! Bra-burning and free pussy. As it should be. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/344 "2011-07-21T21:43:05Z")
At least two recent op-eds, including [one by Thomas Friedman](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/17/opinion/sunday/17friedman.html?_r=1) blame present economic problems in part on Boomer greed. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/345 "2011-07-21T22:02:23Z")
_Deliver me from reasons why You’d rather cry, I’d rather fly_ - The Doors ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/346 "2011-07-21T22:08:46Z")
Oh, well, Thomas Friedman! Why didn’t you say so, I mean, Thomas Friedman has an impeccable record for being totally wrong about pretty much everything he’s ever opined about. Oh, wait, you brought him up to _bolster_ your case, yes? But still, you have a point, in that the heads of rapacious, grasping, insanely greedy coorporate interests may very well be Boomers. And, no doubt, that whole thing about starting two wars on the credit card, that was clearly the fault of anti-war demonstrators of the Sixties. No, you got me on that one, if only we had seen it coming, I guess we dirty fucking hippies wouldn’t have so slavishly supported tax giveaways to the rich. I guess maybe if I had voted Republican, we would all be better off, given their strict and tightly controlled discipline and restraint. You know, what with their horror of deficit spending, and all. Its like “Unicorns are smug, self-righteous assholes, and in proof of that, I offer this clown who doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground, saying that unicorns are smug, self-righteous assholes.” But that isn’t what I asked for, I didn’t ask for someone else making the same nebulous, ill-defined complaint, I was asking for some substantiation for this nebulous, vaporous insult. You got, you bring. No got? Then, no got. Pretty simple, really. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/347 "2011-07-21T22:30:24Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Bullshit! Bra-burning and free pussy. As it should be. Dang. Whose bra do I have to torch to get some free pussy around here? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/348 "2011-07-21T22:31:34Z")
Yours ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/349 "2011-07-21T22:33:24Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And, no doubt, that whole thing about starting two wars on the credit card, that was clearly the fault of anti-war demonstrators of the Sixties. Amazing how little it bothers people when you’re working with a volunteer army, innit though? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/350 "2011-07-21T22:34:20Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, well, Thomas Friedman! Why didn’t you say so, I mean, Thomas Friedman has an impeccable record for being totally wrong about pretty much everything he’s ever opined about. Oh, wait, you brought him up to _bolster_ your case, yes? > > But still, you have a point, in that the heads of rapacious, grasping, insanely greedy coorporate interests may very well be Boomers. > > And, no doubt, that whole thing about starting two wars on the credit card, that was clearly the fault of anti-war demonstrators of the Sixties. No, you got me on that one, if only we had seen it coming, I guess we dirty fucking hippies wouldn’t have so slavishly supported tax giveaways to the rich. > > I guess maybe if I had voted Republican, we would all be better off, given their strict and tightly controlled discipline and restraint. You know, what with their horror of deficit spending, and all. > > Its like “Unicorns are smug, self-righteous assholes, and in proof of that, I offer this clown who doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground, saying that unicorns are smug, self-righteous assholes.” But that isn’t what I asked for, I didn’t ask for someone else making the same nebulous, ill-defined complaint, I was asking for some substantiation for this nebulous, vaporous insult. > > You got, you bring. No got? Then, no got. Pretty simple, really. I mentioned the op-ed, without comment, because I thought others might find it relevant to the thread. In a real discussion I’d be happy to compare my views with his, or yours, but your response is like most of the rest of this thread: shrill, irrational gibberish. Bye-bye. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/351 "2011-07-21T22:55:43Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Amazing how little it bothers people when you’re working with a volunteer army, innit though? What a fascinating topic for a discussion! Perhaps, when we’re done with this one? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/352 "2011-07-21T23:22:24Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > What a fascinating topic for a discussion! Perhaps, when we’re done with this one? Well aren’t you easily whooshed today? Start drafting kids to go to Iraq, or say, Iran, and watch how quickly the streets fill with protestors (all of whom will of course be deeply concerned about America’s moral direction). ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/353 "2011-07-21T23:54:56Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I was teargassed on Bancroft Way, and once marched all the way from there to downtown Oakland. Where were you, **jlzania**? Maybe we marched together. > > But I was a confused shy young man (didn’t even get any of the sex which was an alleged fringe benefit of protest 🆒 ). Real credit goes to the "Boomers’ in SNCC or CORE who [sacrificed their lives for change](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Summer). While it would be absurd for me (or my generation) to take credit for their sacrifices, still I wonder what similar heroes younger generations have to point to? > > Bravo, **jlzania**. I would be happy to say “Mea culpa” if you Gen-X and Gen-Y people would get half as active politically as the Boomers were. Instead this thread has confirmed my worst fears of Gen-X and Gen-Y confusion and apathy. Perhaps one reason why there’s been less marching and protesting in the streets is **because of your sacrifices.** For instance. When we first went to Vietnam, the voting age was 21. But the draft age was 18. Which didn’t seem fair. So you guys got the voting age lowered. And subsequent generations used their votes to effect change. There’s less anger nowadays because there’s less to be angry about, and that’s because you guys made it so. (Well, Gen X has carried on some of your work.) So stop complaining about having won. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/354 "2011-07-22T00:02:28Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I hope that by now we’ve agreed that some of these arbitrary date bounds are … arbitrary. Sure, but I also hope by now you we’ve agreed that you can’t say somebody is part of the post-War baby boom if they were born before the War was over, or even in one case, before the War started. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/355 "2011-07-22T00:11:19Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I mentioned the op-ed, without comment, because I thought others might find it relevant to the thread. > > In a real discussion I’d be happy to compare my views with his, or yours, but your response is like most of the rest of this thread: shrill, irrational gibberish. I agree the editorial is relevant, but IMHO the title is deceptive. Most of what he has to say that relates to this thread is this: > [@NYT Op-Ed](#): > > Indeed, if there is one sentiment that unites the crises in Europe and America it is a powerful sense of “baby boomers behaving badly” — a powerful sense that the generation that came of age in the last 50 years, my generation, will be remembered most for the incredible bounty and freedom it received from its parents and the incredible debt burden and constraints it left on its kids. Thomas Friedman wants to turn this into a clash between large-government liberal boomers against small-government conservative or libertarian Gen Xers. Obviously the wars have been a huge waste, just as the Vietnam war turned out to be in its day, but I don’t think that has much to do with the structural vulnerabilities we face now. In my own humble opinion, the biggest culprit is overpopulation in this country and elsewhere. I don’t mean in the sense that there’s an objective “correct” population limit, although a sustainable level would be optimal. What is a particularly American problem is that we don’t deal very effectively with a high population. Overpopulation in this country means that people have to seek housing farther and farther way from work, school, and amenities. In its turn this means more roads to be maintained, and more fuel to be consumed driving over them, and more petroleum to be purchased overseas with our ever-weakening dollars. On thing I haven’t seen in the younger generations is widespread resistance to settling in the suburbs. Instead, moving to a house in the boondocks seems to be S.O.P. for many young people as soon as the first baby comes, provided they can afford to do so. To return to our spendthrift ways: what besides the wars should we \*not \*have paid for? Although Medicare wasn’t really our work, I wonder if it would it have been preferable to let old people spend themselves into destitution at the hospital? Or better yet just die off? And outside our country, should the greedy boomers in, say, Germany or France dismantle their UHC systems, or be forced to work more hours for lower pay, to compensate for their profligacy? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/356 "2011-07-22T01:09:25Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > There were big Iraq anti-war protests that barely got mentioned by the corporate, trophy blonde media. There were 18-30 year old white males who were the only group of white males that Barack Obama got a majority of votes from. There’s Bradley Manning, whose conscience compelled him to release information regarding our crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan, information that helped sparked revolutions in the Middle East, who sits languishing in a military prison while everyone denounces him for being a tattle-tale. There’s Pat Tillman, who believed in his country and gave up a lucrative career to die for a lie. > > So I don’t want to hear any BS about the shiftless youth of today, especially from a generation committing the same crimes against us that had been perpetrated on them. b There are lots of marches and protests going on now ,aimed at the governors who are destroying unions and scrapping programs for the people. They get no press at all. Some things never change. It takes a hell of a lot to get a protest any airtime. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/357 "2011-07-22T01:11:35Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by NYT Op-Ed > > Indeed, if there is one sentiment that unites the crises in Europe and America it is a powerful sense of “baby boomers behaving badly” — a powerful sense that the generation that came of age in the last 50 years, my generation, will be remembered most for the incredible bounty and freedom it received from its parents and the incredible debt burden and constraints it left on its kids. Its very easy to criticize the Boomers could we have done any better? If we were told “lower taxes=higher revenue,” wouldn’t we scream for lower taxes and idolize Ronald Reagan? If we were asked to support reforming a health care system we had been paying into for our entire lives for a system that would _probably_ work, would we say “sure lets give it a shot” even if it meant that the country as a whole would be healthier and health care costs would be cut in half? Will we be as liberal and progressive when we are 60 and 70 as we are when we are 30 and 40? Sure the Boomers have reincarnated the John Birch Society in the form of the Tea Party but when we see the world changing around us so quickly that we feel like the world is leaving us behind won’t we wrap our fearas and hatreds in teh flag become hatriots in our own right? The Boomers merely have the demographic weight to convert those instincts into the mess we see today. ---
**Author:** ![Quintas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/48db29/32.png) [@Quintas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quintas)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/358 "2011-07-22T01:20:56Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The guys getting the shit shot out of them at Normandy were born in the early to mid 20’s. The guys who signed up the day after Pearl Harbor were already back from their tours. They didn’t do tours in WW2. You were in until you were killed or wounded ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/359 "2011-07-22T02:17:20Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Its very easy to criticize the Boomers could we have done any better? > > If we were told “lower taxes=higher revenue,” wouldn’t we scream for lower taxes and idolize Ronald Reagan? > > If we were asked to support reforming a health care system we had been paying into for our entire lives for a system that would _probably_ work, would we say “sure lets give it a shot” even if it meant that the country as a whole would be healthier and health care costs would be cut in half? > > Will we be as liberal and progressive when we are 60 and 70 as we are when we are 30 and 40? Sure the Boomers have reincarnated the John Birch Society in the form of the Tea Party but when we see the world changing around us so quickly that we feel like the world is leaving us behind won’t we wrap our fearas and hatreds in teh flag become hatriots in our own right? > > The Boomers merely have the demographic weight to convert those instincts into the mess we see today. I have some sympathy for this view because I realize boomers grew up in a time when the news was the news, and you could basically trust most of our institutions to do their jobs. Today, blogs seem to be The News, and what we used to think was The News are now corporations like News Corp. that mainly function as propaganda arms for their owners and other moneyed interests. Today you have to regard everything with skepticism and figure out where the conflicts of interest lay. And I won’t claim that all boomers are equally culpable (Seriously, if what has been said doesn’t apply to you, can’t you say to yourself “Well, that doesn’t describe me” and let it go? Are all of you really that sensitive?). But this is your generation’s moment. You are in charge. You’re in position to shape the direction of our country for the next 20, 30 years. What the hell are you doing? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/360 "2011-07-22T10:19:30Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > In my own humble opinion, the biggest culprit is overpopulation … > > To return to our spendthrift ways: what besides the wars should we \*not \*have paid for? Overpopulation is indeed the big “Elephant in the Room.” Judging by the thread it may be only me, but I see a big rich-vs-poor conflict in today’s America and relate this to old-vs-young. Wealth is concentrated among Boomers; their greed (don’t tax my investment income, nor need-limit my SocSec) is a problem. (Yes, I know not all rich are old, nor all old rich. 😃 ) * * * As I mentioned in another thread, my aging brain finds it difficult to keep track of the views and debating tactics of more than a few Dopers. Sometimes I think I need a crib sheet. But mnemonics may help me… > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Sure, but I also hope by now you we’ve agreed that you can’t say somebody is part of the post-War baby boom if they were born before the War was over, or even in one case, before the War started. I don’t know (or care) if you read my post, admitting that Freedom Summer was not the best cite for debating with the hyper-technical. But your feeling the need to repeat your pointless point and “earn debating points” will help me remember you: **Captain Amazing** : An _Amazing_ debater. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212.md?page=19)