# Fuck the Baby Boomers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212 "2011-07-16T03:00:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/101 "2011-07-16T20:50:26Z")
> [@LilyoftheField](#): > > Seriously? What, are you 12? > > But then again, it seems like this whole thread is about the blame game, isn’t it? It’s a proud tradition for humanity. Every generation blames the previous one for the ills of the world. And its been working so well for us because now we have no problems at all! Taking my quote in context, you might note that the poster I was responding to was attempting to take credit, on a generational basis, for opposing the war in Iraq. Given that view point, I think it’s appropriate to point out that the same generation was also responsible for starting that war. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/102 "2011-07-16T20:56:21Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > And I don’t think Baby Boomers have that great a definition. The late 40’s babies formed the 60’s counter culture. I was born in 56, and hit adulthood in the 70’s with counter culture 2.0 already being rolled out. The guys from the 60’s took off their jeans and put on suits as soon as the war was over so they could suck the economy dry in the greed era of the 80’s. > … I was talking about being entitled to vote, to express yourself, to make choices, to have equality. These things were often desired in the past, but there ‘practical’ reasons preached, and accepted, for why those actual entitlements weren’t fulfilled. I don’t think it had anything to do with jobs and money and government benefits. And I think we picked it up from our parents who felt some kind of entitlement to the American Dream because they had suffered through the Depression and sacrificed for WWII. > > Mostly though, I want to slap these youngsters silly who think so much of themselves because of all they’ve been given. I know them, I work with them, they’ve worked for me, and I raised a couple of them. They think there’s an app for everything. And if not, they give up. They think reality TV is realistic, and entertaining. > > Now let’s not use too broad a brush either. My generation was selfish, shallow, and two-faced. For the most part they didn’t fight to end the war in Vietnam on principle. They didn’t want to get drafted, and the chicks at war protests would put out. Then they start acquiring things and acting as politically conservative as our stupid parents. They had kids and decided drugs were bad after all and became the inquisitors themselves. But in all generations the great accomplishments come from only a few. And the majority at the time doesn’t necessarily represent the legacy. > > No generation is really comparable to the next in recent history because of the great changes that affect our lives… I’ve quoted **TriPolar** ’s words since they show much wisdom. I just want to add that when my Generation was young, we united (to some degree), acted politically, and did achieve some changes. We demonstrated against the War in Vietnam and against racial injustice. It is generally the young who lead great political change. Today, when our country faces serious problems, I do not see the same concern by young people that my Generation had in the 1960’s. This is sad for you, and sad for America. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/103 "2011-07-16T20:59:34Z")
Assuming the OP really isn’t joking then he sounds like one of the Boomers he so derides, snotty and self-absorbed. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/104 "2011-07-16T21:03:42Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That’s all really super, I’m sure, but if you want your generation, as a fungible unit, to take credit for opposing the Vietnam war, then by that same measure, you have to take the blame for starting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. > > Now, if you’d rather distance yourself from all this generational bullshit and be judged purely on your own merits, that’s fantastic. I entirely support you in that endeavor. But the impression I’ve been getting from your posts is that you want to defend the concept of the Boomer generation as a legitimate group identifier. And as a group, the achievements of the Baby Boom generation are distinctly underwhelming, to say the least. Then I apologize for not expressing myself articulately enough. My point was not as my generation ended the Vietnam war but that we also faced a seriously fucked up situation. And of course, we blamed the preceeding generation for what we inherited. I remember the slogan “Don’t trust anyone over 30.” Personally, I think classifying people by race or religion or age is more than a little stupid. I am still waiting for any suggestions you youngsters may as to how to cure the ills we face. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/105 "2011-07-16T21:05:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Opposition to the Vietnam War was an ethos of the boomer generation\* that I don’t think you can appreciate if you weren’t there. There is no analogy today. > > \*not all of us, but most. Interesting little factoid, and you can make of it what you will, but in 1970, there was a Gallup poll released asking if sending troops to Vietnam was a mistake, and 56% of the population said it was. What’s interesting, though, was that 61% of those over 50 said it was a mistake, compared to 49% of those between 21-29. And that’s not just an isolated thing, because the question was asked pretty consistently, from 1965-1971, and the results were pretty much always the same. The percentage of people who thought the war was a mistake increased over time, of course, but people over 50 were consistently less likely to support the war than people 21-30. Here’s a list with the data. [http://www.seanet.com/~jimxc/Politics/Mistakes/Vietnam\_support.html](http://www.seanet.com/~jimxc/Politics/Mistakes/Vietnam_support.html) So, I’d suggest that you might be wrong and have come to accept a myth, and that opposition to the Vietnam War wasn’t an ethos of the Boomer generation in particular, and in fact, in the last poll listed there, in May of 1971, about a third of the Boomers supported the Vietnam War, which really shouldn’t be surprising if you think about it. Younger people tend to be more pro-war in general than older people. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/106 "2011-07-16T21:10:26Z")
> [@jlzania](#): > > Then I apologize for not expressing myself articulately enough. My point was not as my generation ended the Vietnam war but that we also faced a seriously fucked up situation. And of course, we blamed the preceeding generation for what we inherited. I remember the slogan “Don’t trust anyone over 30.” > Personally, I think classifying people by race or religion or age is more than a little stupid. > > I am still waiting for any suggestions you youngsters may as to how to > cure the ills we face. Hey, did you just classify me by my age?! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/107 "2011-07-16T21:12:11Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I just want to add that when my Generation was young, we united (to some degree), acted politically, and did achieve some changes. We demonstrated against the War in Vietnam and against racial injustice. It is generally the young who lead great political change. Today, when our country faces serious problems, I do not see the same concern by young people that my Generation had in the 1960’s. This is sad for you, and sad for America. I will say that that’s part of the attitude that grates, the sort of holier-than-thou condescension. The whole, “Look at us, when we were young, we CARED about things. We demonstrated against war and racism. But you young people today, you don’t care about anything, you sad, sad people.” When you start talking like that, you get people’s ire up. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/108 "2011-07-16T21:35:05Z")
> [@jlzania](#): > > I am still waiting for any suggestions you youngsters may as to how to cure the ills we face. Cure the ills we face, or cure the ills you face? You guys are in charge, it doesn’t take a genius to figure it out, yet you can’t get it done. Even when it’s right there in front of you. Your generation had no problem voting yourselves the treasury with health care, you had no problem in assisting with the looting of Social Security, you had no problem changing the US into a 90% service economy from a hulking economic behemoth, you had no problem with the endless stream of tax reductions, and you had no problem raising the trade deficits and debt to astronomical levels. But now, after screwing me and my son sideways, you’re going to ask for my help, for solutions to the problems you helped to cause? OK. Here’s the deal. Ready? Spend less than you take in. There, I solved your problem for you. That was easy. Of course, that would require a complete reversal of thinking from every single one of you, since that has never, ever been the case at any point in your lifetimes. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/109 "2011-07-16T21:36:13Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I will say that that’s part of the attitude that grates, the sort of holier-than-thou condescension. The whole, “Look at us, when we were young, we CARED about things. We demonstrated against war and racism. But you young people today, you don’t care about anything, you sad, sad people.” When you start talking like that, you get people’s ire up. Frankly I see just as much, if not more enthusiasm and dedication to fighting injustice in post-boomer folks as I recall seeing in my late boomer cohorts. I also see a lot of jerks and assclowns in every generation I’ve ever encountered. People are people, IMHO. And labeling them by age has about as much validity as labeling them by skin color, nationality, religion, or language spoken. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/110 "2011-07-16T21:39:21Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > OK. Here’s the deal. Ready? Spend less than you take in. There, I solved your problem for you. That was easy. Of course, that would require a complete reversal of thinking from every single one of you, since that has never, ever been the case at any point in your lifetimes. The generation before the boomers advocated that long and loudly, and also ignored it when it came to actual practice. As did the boomers. As will/are the ones following the boomers. Chaos theory carries more weight in how societies function and evolve than any other political or economic principle. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/111 "2011-07-16T21:41:04Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Interesting little factoid, and you can make of it what you will, but in 1970, there was a Gallup poll released asking if sending troops to Vietnam was a mistake, and 56% of the population said it was. What’s interesting, though, was that 61% of those over 50 said it was a mistake, compared to 49% of those between 21-29. > > And that’s not just an isolated thing, because the question was asked pretty consistently, from 1965-1971, and the results were pretty much always the same. The percentage of people who thought the war was a mistake increased over time, of course, but people over 50 were consistently less likely to support the war than people 21-30. Here’s a list with the data. > > [http://www.seanet.com/~jimxc/Politics/Mistakes/Vietnam\_support.html](http://www.seanet.com/~jimxc/Politics/Mistakes/Vietnam_support.html) > > So, I’d suggest that you might be wrong and have come to accept a myth, and that opposition to the Vietnam War wasn’t an ethos of the Boomer generation in particular, and in fact, in the last poll listed there, in May of 1971, about a third of the Boomers supported the Vietnam War, which really shouldn’t be surprising if you think about it. Younger people tend to be more pro-war in general than older people. Not really. In 1968, the last year the under 30 group had \> 50% approval, you’re talking people born as early as 1938. That’s a whole lot of non-boomers in that group. Assuming they only asked people 18 and older, that would be people born between 1938 and 1950. More non-boomers birth years than boomer years. As more an more boomers enter that category, support drops well below 50%. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/112 "2011-07-16T21:41:36Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Hey, did you just classify me by my age?! > > 😉 Never! Actually \*practicing \*what I preach has always been my nemesis. > [@](#): > > **Captain Amazing** I will say that that’s part of the attitude that grates, the sort of holier-than-thou condescension. The whole, “Look at us, when we were young, we CARED about things. We demonstrated against war and racism. But you young people today, you don’t care about anything, you sad, sad people.” When you start talking like that, you get people’s ire up. Of course. It’s just as frustrating to be lumped with the apathetic members of your generation as it is to be lumped with the greedy corporate war-mongers of mine. An aside: Five years ago, I was employed as customer service rep in a manufacturing environment. I was much older than most of the (primarily) young men that worked on the assembly line who were, on w whole, in their mid-twenties.. It was a small plant and we all shared a break room. At first, I was totally ignored by my co-workers or, if I was acknowledged, it was only to try and shock me. I wasn’t young and pretty and they didn’t want to fuck me or flirt with me so I had no apparent value. I wasn’t worth getting to know. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/113 "2011-07-16T21:43:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > A tiny fringe group. I got nothing against them, but they were a blip on the radar. The only thing they didn’t have was the media watching their every move, making mountains out of molehills. They didn’t have TV, which turned the Beats into the Beatniks and then birthed the Hippies out of all the kids who grew up on Maynard G. Krebs. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > . . . Somehow I’m not spotting the influences here. Compare early Rock’n’Roll to what Hendrix and the Grateful Dead were doing. Or just look at the Beatles from “Love Me Do” to anything on Sgt. Pepper: When things start to get more complex, you hear increased improvisation, longer instrumentals, and more chord structures than you can get out of classic blues changes. You begin to get the beginnings of progressive rock, which is just jazz with electric guitars and a more obvious beat. In jazz, that kind of complexity dates to bebop, which dates to the 1940s, when the earliest Boomers were just being born. (You don’t like prog for two reasons: Reviewers in the 1970s didn’t like it, and a lot of it is an object lesson in the fact you need actual _talent_ to do anything as complex as what Parker or even Rush did.) > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I will say that that’s part of the attitude that grates, the sort of holier-than-thou condescension. The whole, “Look at us, when we were young, we CARED about things. We demonstrated against war and racism. But you young people today, you don’t care about anything, you sad, sad people.” When you start talking like that, you get people’s ire up. This is certainly correct, and I think the attitude demonstrates a kind of historical media-centrism of the kind I alluded to above: Out of all the people who were ‘under 35’ from 1965-1975, how many _actually_ demonstrated? The demonstrators got all the media time, while the Silent Majority was, in fact, a _majority_. Look at the 1972 election. (In case you don’t recall, or don’t want to, Nixon won in the biggest damn landslide anyone alive then is likely to live to see.) ---
**Author:** ![LilyoftheField](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@LilyoftheField](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilyoftheField)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/114 "2011-07-16T21:45:38Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I will say that that’s part of the attitude that grates, the sort of holier-than-thou condescension. The whole, “Look at us, when we were young, we CARED about things. We demonstrated against war and racism. But you young people today, you don’t care about anything, you sad, sad people.” When you start talking like that, you get people’s ire up. Well…this is the pit - getting people’s ire up is what its all about, right? Can I assume that your objection is only to septimus and not to the OP’s approach to the subject? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/115 "2011-07-16T22:15:19Z")
> [@jlzania](#): > > You’re right- we boomers can be smug self-absorbed assholes. > As can members of any other generation including yours. But, they’re not all the same, are they? ---
**Author:** ![scratch\_llll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@scratch\_llll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scratch_llll)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/116 "2011-07-16T23:04:18Z")
> [@jlzania](#): > > Never! Actually \*practicing \*what I preach has always been my nemesis. Don’t worry too much about this. Miller himself has slipped by singling out a specific poster to call a name. We all slip. We all at some point fall short of our own expectations of ourselves and that brings things full circle. The latest generation will be as frustrated as the boomers when thier kids begin to say the same things to them. They will forget until the mirror is held up to them that they had even done so. It was ever thus. All you have to do is crack a book or hear a song to know it has been so for time immemorial. That said, I don’t know what the hell is wrong with this latest generation of republicans who are so bought and paid for by corporate interests that they would cut social programs for the poor while refusing to allow the rich to help at the level they did pre-Bush when the budget was actually balanced so that the whole economy risks tanking. Er… uh… not to derail the thread or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/117 "2011-07-16T23:10:58Z")
> [@scratch\_llll](#): > > Miller himself has slipped by singling out a specific poster to call a name. What? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/118 "2011-07-16T23:28:02Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Baby Boomers were kids born after the war. Hence the “boom” part of it. Trying to change the definition so that the Boomers can steal credit for musicians born in previous generations is soooooooo typical of the Me-Me-Me Boomers. > > 😛 Audience and performer–audience and performer, as noted upthread. When discussing the boomer generation as a cultural phenomenon you have to stretch the dates a little bit. The Doors’ keyboardist Ray Manzarek was born in 1939, but I would challenge you to read his memoir and then come away with the concept that he was anything but a boomer in these terms. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/119 "2011-07-16T23:33:10Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > 17 \> 3. Substantial is not the word I’d use. Substantial is exactly the word I’d use. It doesn’t mean “most”. > [@](#): > > Plus, in the “Generations” theory, the boom ended in 1960, which would put all of them over 50. > > I think it’s a safe generalization to make in 2011 that all boomers are over 50. I agree with this, though. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212/120 "2011-07-17T00:06:04Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I just want to add that when my Generation was young, we united (to some degree), acted politically, and did achieve some changes. We demonstrated against the War in Vietnam and against racial injustice. It is generally the young who lead great political change. Today, when our country faces serious problems, I do not see the same concern by young people that my Generation had in the 1960’s. Don’t confuse despair with lack of concern. It’s become quite obvious that there’s nothing the ordinary people can do that will change anything. Protests are ignored, vote for whomever you like and even if they win they’ll ignore the wishes of the people who voted them in to do what they wealthy masters of this country want done. Nothing the common people do will have any effect on the government and the rest of the power structure; they are steering the country over a cliff and all 90%+ of the population can do is watch while their future is destroyed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-baby-boomers/589212.md?page=7)