# Fuck the CA Bar Exam **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 21, 2004, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-ca-bar-exam/275893 "2004-11-21T01:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-ca-bar-exam/275893/1 "2004-11-21T01:32:41Z")
Former housemate’s bar exam results just came in today. He had me open the envelope and read them off…he did not pass. They send the results for the July exam out just before Thanksgiving (so 50% of the people get to have a crappy turkey day), and he’s in town for his grandmother’s funeral. Great weekend. Fuck fuck fuck. Did I mention “fuck”? Fuck the fucking fuckers. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-ca-bar-exam/275893/2 "2004-11-21T01:48:15Z")
I’m sorry your friend didn’t pass. Can he retake the test? ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-ca-bar-exam/275893/3 "2004-11-21T02:02:23Z")
I’ve had very bad luck with the Florida Bar Exam, so my heart goes out to your friend. I wish him the best of luck the next time he takes it, which will most likely be in February, when I retake mine here. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-ca-bar-exam/275893/4 "2004-11-21T02:07:44Z")
Is there a limit to how many times you can take the exam? And with all due sympathy toward your friend and **BBVL** , don’t we want the tests to be hard? We’re trusting lawyers with a massive amount of information and congitive thinking challenges, and I would think we’d want to make sure they understood it completely. In any event, good luck to both of you on retaking the exam. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-ca-bar-exam/275893/5 "2004-11-21T05:26:38Z")
I’ve heard mixed reviews about bar prep courses like [Barbri](http://www.barbri.com/). I didn’t use one. But it’s something to consider… ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-ca-bar-exam/275893/6 "2004-11-21T07:08:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’ve heard mixed reviews about bar prep courses like [Barbri](http://www.barbri.com/). I didn’t use one. But it’s something to consider… I’m taking Barbri and PMBR this time, leaving nothing to chance. Considering I’ll be starting my first real legal job WHILE I’m studying for the next Bar Exam, I want to have every advantage and opportunity I can. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-ca-bar-exam/275893/7 "2004-11-21T12:11:56Z")
There’s a secret weapon for passing the California Bar. Me. I’ll make or pick up breakfast, lunch, and dinner, help you with your flashcards about obscure legal topics, give you lots of hugs and kisses, tell you I’ll still love you even if you tear out your hair and run away to become a hermit, and drive you to the testing site. Unfortunately I am a nonreusable weapon, and **available light** got to me first. Your friend will have to find his own weapon somewhere. Well, taking BarBri and PMBR helps too. Let’s not forget that California has a larger economy than all but 4 _nations_, and a set of laws to match. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-ca-bar-exam/275893/8 "2004-11-21T17:56:36Z")
He will retake in Feb. This was his third (!!!) attempt. He’s extremely bright, did quite well in law school, got high marks from judges and DAs that he worked with in court (he prosecuted cases under supervision), by all accounts knows the law very well (better than some people who have passed). He doesn’t even want to be a high-powered corporate lawyer, wants to be a DA. Public service and all that. It’s the essays - they look for a very particular form of response that he’s having trouble mastering. He has done BARBRI and had a private tutor (same one for previous tests…time for a change I think). His tutor has looked at his exams and said that he didn’t miss anything in his essays but they weren’t written with the single-minded intensity that they need to be. Graders have something like ten seconds to grade each essay (they get enormous stacks of the things) so your answers have to literally leap right off the page, I think his tutor (who has graded something like 1500 or 15,000 of the things) said that you should write as if your grader will have one minute to look at all your essays, at 3am, while sitting on the toilet, because that’s probably true. How frustrating is that? You give the right answers and if somebody took a minute to read them you’d be set. To his credit, he has gotten back up on the horse every single time and it’s a helluva climb. The first time he was waiting for results his g/f had just dumped him, the second time his grandmother passed away (and not quickly) right before the exam while he was in full “exam cram” mode. I have a huge amount of respect for this guy, he’s certainly paying his dues. As Winston Churchill said: “Never give in — never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.” ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-ca-bar-exam/275893/9 "2004-11-21T18:40:47Z")
A lot of these fancy-schmancy professional licensing/board exams are involved in the “guess what I’m thinking” game with their essay questions and oral exams. And too many places seem to feel that a high failure rate enhances the status of the profession/exam. Frankly I’m unaware of any good studies correlating passing the exam = better lawyer/doctor/funeral director once you get lower than a 15-20% failure rate. Nothing for it but to keep taking it. Persistance does tend to pay off in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-ca-bar-exam/275893/10 "2004-11-21T19:29:02Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > A lot of these fancy-schmancy professional licensing/board exams are involved in the “guess what I’m thinking” game with their essay questions and oral exams. And too many places seem to feel that a high failure rate enhances the status of the profession/exam. Frankly I’m unaware of any good studies correlating passing the exam = better lawyer/doctor/funeral director once you get lower than a 15-20% failure rate. > > Nothing for it but to keep taking it. Persistance does tend to pay off in the long run. Exactly. My friend has said that the bar is partially a professional hazing. Easy for me to say but I know that he will stick to it and pass the damn thing (he missed it by a whisker this time), I just hate seeing a friend having to go through this kind of ordeal. Like I said it isn’t an issue of not knowing the material solidly, it’s just a particular writing style. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-ca-bar-exam/275893/11 "2004-11-21T23:58:31Z")
I’m not sure how CA weights its exam, but I’ve passed both the NY and TX exams, and the secret is to focus a whole lot on the MBE. It’s multiple guess, and you can buy a ton of practice questions to study by. I must have done thousands of MBE questions before I sat for NY, so many that my score on that section was outrageously high. And a high MBE can make up for a lot of lost points on the essays. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-ca-bar-exam/275893/12 "2004-11-22T08:56:27Z")
I had a friend who took the bar once. He was the \*only \* one in his class who failed. ---
**Author:** ![Banger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@Banger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banger)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-ca-bar-exam/275893/13 "2004-11-22T16:36:43Z")
The impression I got from Barbri (at least as far as the NY exam goes) is that so many people take the course, that the course itself, through the people taking the test, impacts the “curve” of the test, as the Barbri students, by virtue of having taken the same course prior to the test, answer their questions relatively similarly, and as such, the “correct” answer is essentially determined by the Barbri students. Of course, it may be bullshit and just a Barbri sales pitch. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-ca-bar-exam/275893/14 "2004-11-22T17:36:49Z")
If it’s any consolation to your friend, the CA bar exam is reputed to be the hardest in the nation. My law school dean has taken and passed about 5 states’ exams and the only one he ever failed CA’s, beacuse it was, in his words, “a bitch.” That was the only tine I ever heard him curse. Lots of capable lawyers fail their first go around, too. My dad, former member of the board of directors for the Texas Bar Association, failed his first try. The best advice I can give your friend is don’t let it drive you nuts–go out and drown your sorrows for an evening, and when you wake up the next morning get started analyzing where and how you need to improve ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-ca-bar-exam/275893/15 "2004-11-23T03:05:37Z")
> [@Dewey Cheatem Undhow](#): > > I’m not sure how CA weights its exam, but I’ve passed both the NY and TX exams, and the secret is to focus a whole lot on the MBE. It’s multiple guess, and you can buy a ton of practice questions to study by. I must have done thousands of MBE questions before I sat for NY, so many that my score on that section was outrageously high. And a high MBE can make up for a lot of lost points on the essays. He’s done quite well on the multiple-choice part, it’s the frickin’ essays. His tutor looked at his previous essay answers and his commentary was something like: “OK, you didn’t address Point X…no, wait, you did, there it is. Ah, well you didn’t discuss Element Z…nope, my bad, there it is right there…” (and so on). Basically he had everything in there but not so that it jumped out and grabbed the grader by the scrotal regions immediately. Sounds like if they could take a minute per essay instead of ten seconds it’d turn out differently but them’s the rules. Talked to him tonight, he’s allowing a few days to be down in the dumps and then get back on the horse and charge back into battle.