# Fuck the DEA **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 5, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-dea/484603 "2009-02-05T18:58:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-dea/484603/1 "2009-02-05T18:58:32Z")
From the [Washington Times](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/05/dea-led-by-bush-continues-pot-raids/) **DEA continues pot raids Obama opposes** > [@](#): > > Drug Enforcement Administration agents this week raided four medical marijuana shops in California, contrary to President Obama’s campaign promises to stop the raids. > > The White House said it expects those kinds of raids to end once Mr. Obama nominates someone to take charge of DEA, which is still run by Bush administration holdovers. Why the fuck is the DEA continuing these busts when the President is clearly against them? More importantly (especially to the folk who may end up in jail in the meantime) why the fuck doesn’t Obama ORDER them to stop? He doesn’t need to wait until a new administrator takes over. I really don’t get this and it just burns me up. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-dea/484603/2 "2009-02-05T19:03:19Z")
Where are the people (usually conservatives) who always whine about “where our tax dollars are going” when it comes to the DEA and marijuana busts? Talk about a monumental waste of time and cash. They probably tripped over a few junkies/crack addicts/meth-heads on their way to raiding the medical marijuana shops, too. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-dea/484603/3 "2009-02-05T19:21:17Z")
These are the same geniuses that spent 9 million to bust [Tommy Chong](http://www.akatommychong.com/media.html). ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-dea/484603/4 "2009-02-05T19:26:12Z")
Apparently it doesn’t bother Obama that much, or else he would, like you said, tell them to stop. I don’t really see the problem, though. The medical marijuana shops are illegal, it’s the DEA’s job to stop illegal drug sales, so they’re doing their jobs. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-dea/484603/5 "2009-02-05T19:26:32Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Why the fuck is the DEA continuing these busts when the President is clearly against them? More importantly (especially to the folk who may end up in jail in the meantime) why the fuck doesn’t Obama ORDER them to stop? He doesn’t need to wait until a new administrator takes over. > > I really don’t get this and it just burns me up. Probably because the guys who know they are going to get replaced don’t care what the guy who’s going to replace them thinks and the guys beneath them appreciate paychecks in this fiscal environment. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-dea/484603/6 "2009-02-05T19:33:04Z")
As Attorney General, Holder is the head of the DEA, right? He was only confirmed Monday and hopefully that’s enough to put a stop to this. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-dea/484603/7 "2009-02-05T19:46:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > As Attorney General, Holder is the head of the DEA, right? He was only confirmed Monday and hopefully that’s enough to put a stop to this. It doesn’t matter. Obama could have issued an order the day he was inaugurated if he thought it was a priority. But it seems he doesn’t. I can’t blame him, he’s got lots of shit to deal with already. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-dea/484603/8 "2009-02-05T19:50:24Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Why the fuck is the DEA continuing these busts when the President is clearly against them? More importantly (especially to the folk who may end up in jail in the meantime) why the fuck doesn’t Obama ORDER them to stop? He doesn’t need to wait until a new administrator takes over. He probably doesn’t want to deal with the political consequences if the lame duck guy defies his order. I wrote a bit about this dilemma in a staff report: > [@](#): > > Many scholars contend that, George W. Bush’s protestations notwithstanding, the President in many contexts is not the decider regarding federal prosecutions — he’s authorized to appoint and remove deciders, but his job is to supervise. > > In 1831, President Andrew Jackson was faced with this very issue. Two years earlier, a man known as Constant Polari or Carrara broke into the palace of Laken [[link](http://www.trabel.com/brussel/brussels-royalresidence.htm)] in Brussels and stole, among other things, royal jewels belonging to the Prince and Princess of Orange. After some intrigue straight out of National Treasure (some of the items taken were hidden in a compartment in a writing desk), Polari was arrested by U.S. customs agents [[link](http://books.google.com/books?id=fQA9AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA216&dq=jewels+princess+of+orange&ei=5U7uR6-KGpesiwGVu522DQ#PPA279,M1)]. Some of the jewels were retrieved, and the President wanted to return them to the Netherlands. Unfortunately, the district attorney was pursuing a forfeiture claim against the jewels and wasn’t inclined to stop. Jackson asked then-attorney general Roger Taney if he could make the DA back off. Taney’s opinion, titled The Jewels of the Princess of Orange [[link](http://books.google.com/books?id=G989AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA38&lpg=PA38&dq=The+Jewels+of+the+Princess+of+Orange&source=web&ots=CcNLiawVYF&sig=h4OIOYRg5DRAKvVVD1KYlwBVrxE&hl=en#PPA38,M1)], said he could, sort of. The President has the power to direct the district attorney to stop, Taney wrote, but: > > ``` > The District Attorney might refuse to obey the President's order; and if he did refuse, the prosecution, while he remained in office, would still go on; because the President himself could give no order to the court or to the clerk to make any particular entry. He could only act through his subordinate officer, the district attorney, who is responsible to him and who holds his office at his pleasure. And if that officer still continues a prosecution which the President is satisfied ought not to continue, the removal of the disobedient officer and the substitution of one more worthy in his place would enable the President through him faithfully to execute the law. > > ``` > > This advice was put to the test during Andrew Jackson’s Bank War [[link](http://www.neh.gov/news/humanities/2008-01/KingAndrewandtheBank.html)]. Jackson opposed the idea of a U.S. central bank, and in 1833 instructed the secretary of the treasury, Louis McLane, to remove the government’s funds from the Second Bank of the United States. Professor Peter Strauss explains [[link](http://docs.law.gwu.edu/stdg/gwlr/issues/pdf/StraussForeword75-4.pdf)], “the Bank’s authority ran until 1836, and the relevant statute provided that government funds were to be kept in it ‘unless the Secretary of the Treasury shall at any time otherwise order and direct.’ When Secretary McLane decided against removing the funds, Jackson removed him and appointed William Duane as his successor.” When Duane also said no [[link](http://millercenter.org/academic/americanpresident/jackson/essays/cabinet/185.)], Jackson appointed Roger Taney to replace him. Taney did as he was told, but that didn’t go over so well with Congress. As Strauss explains: > > ``` > The Senate passed a Resolution of Censure and subsequently rejected Taney’s nomination as Secretary — the first time in American history it had rejected a presidential nomination to the cabinet. When, in 1835, President Jackson nominated Taney to a seat as Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, that nomination, too, failed. Changes in Senate membership finally permitted his renomination and confirmation as Chief Justice months later, in 1836, and the eventual expungement of the Resolution of Censure. > > ``` > > A more recent example is the the infamous Saturday Night Massacre during the Watergate scandal, when Richard Nixon instructed his subordinates to dismiss the special prosecutor. Both Attorney General Elliot Richardson and Deputy Attorney General William Ruckelshaus refused the order and were promptly fired. Nixon finally appointed Solicitor General Robert Bork, who did the deed. The Washington Post noted that this “immediately raised prospects that the President himself might be impeached or forced to resign” [[link](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/watergate/articles/102173-2.htm)]. > **[Can the President grant immunity from prosecution?](https://www.straightdope.com/21343903/can-the-president-grant-immunity-from-prosecution)** > > A STAFF REPORT FROM THE STRAIGHT DOPE SCIENCE ADVISORY BOARD Whether or not he’d draw any criticism under these cirumstances, he’s replacing the guy anyway. It’s probably simpler to let the guy be a schmuck for a little longer and get rid of him without controversy. ---
**Author:** ![Jettboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@Jettboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jettboy)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-dea/484603/9 "2009-02-05T19:53:44Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > The medical marijuana shops are illegal, it’s the DEA’s job to stop illegal drug sales, so they’re doing their jobs. Illegal at the _federal_ level, completely legal at the state level. The states that allow medical marijuana all think that the federal government has no right to bust marijuana dispensaries. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-dea/484603/10 "2009-02-05T20:13:07Z")
Of course the busts continue. Many (most?) American citizens know little regarding the rationale regarding why cannabis is an illegal drug. All they know is that they have been told that it is dangerous, that it is associated with laziness, the hip hop culture, hippies, and the ‘gateway drug’ theory. Political inertia demands the status quo. To his credit, the President has stated his opposition to raids on medical marijuana facilities. Granted, that’s about five leagues to the right of the proper response (Legalize it already, it ain’t done nobody no harm save the legal consequences that are enforced upon them by a clueless government blindly following the dictates of men long dead!) but ya takes what ya can gets in the soundbite age. And there are bigger fish to fry–there always will be–so there is no urgency nor controversy involved in doing what we’ve always done, i.e, sticking it to those who utilize marijuana. Give it a few months. I think the raids will end before the year is over. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-dea/484603/11 "2009-02-05T20:26:20Z")
> [@Jettboy](#): > > Illegal at the _federal_ level, completely legal at the state level. The states that allow medical marijuana all think that the federal government has no right to bust marijuana dispensaries. Right, and the DEA is a federal agency. If the states want to take the position that the federal government doesn’t have that right, they’re going to have to take it up in the courts. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-dea/484603/12 "2009-02-05T20:43:15Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Right, and the DEA is a federal agency. If the states want to take the position that the federal government doesn’t have that right, they’re going to have to take it up in the courts. Some states tried that over a hundred years ago…didnt work out so well 🙂 Though to be honest, they really didnt work through the court as much as they should have… ---
**Author:** ![Albrecht\_Durer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ccd318/32.png) [@Albrecht\_Durer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Albrecht_Durer)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-dea/484603/13 "2009-02-05T21:02:01Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Right, and the DEA is a federal agency. If the states want to take the position that the federal government doesn’t have that right, they’re going to have to take it up in the courts. They did that; the US Supreme Court decided in [Gonzales\_v.\_Raich](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Raich) that the federal government has the ability to regulate all commerce between the states, legal and illegal. The dissents are interesting, because they were from three “law and order” justices (Rehnquist, Thomas, and O’Connor), all of whom were believers in federalism (especially Rehnquist, who, when nominated, hoped to start a “federalism revoluation.”) Because the Supreme Court had already decided that wheat grown for ones own personal use affects interstate commerce and could be regulated, it stands to reason the same can be said for home-grown medical marijuana. To allow medical marijuana, California is going to have to spearhead an initiative to amend the Constitution. Or Obama can nominate some new Supreme Court justices… ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-dea/484603/14 "2009-02-05T21:15:26Z")
> [@Albrecht\_Durer](#): > > To allow medical marijuana, California is going to have to spearhead an initiative to amend the Constitution. Or Obama can nominate some new Supreme Court justices… Or Obama can give the DEA different enforcement priorities. Or Congress could amend the statute. These weren’t likely to happen when _Raich_ was decided, but Obama can certainly appoint a DEA adminstrator with different enforcement goals. Nothing in the Constitution says that every federal law must be enforced against every violator (e.g., [Department of Justice | Homepage | United States Department of Justice](http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/71mcrm.htm#9-71.010) ) nor does it say federal law must ban medical marijuana. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-dea/484603/15 "2009-02-06T02:33:14Z")
Most people have forgotten this, but on the campaign trail in 2000, GWB actually stated support for medical marijuana while campaigning in a pot-friendly state. Then he took office and did the complete opposite. I like Obama, but deep down, I’ve always known that he was still a politician and that all that “change” stuff was likely little more than the empty words of a job applicant trying to please his potential employers. I’m sure a lot of you suspected the same. Welcome back to politics as usual. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-dea/484603/16 "2009-02-06T03:32:39Z")
> [@neutron\_star](#): > > I like Obama, but deep down, I’ve always known that he was still a politician and that all that “change” stuff was likely little more than the empty words of a job applicant trying to please his potential employers. I’m sure a lot of you suspected the same. > > Welcome back to politics as usual. ☹ Oh, come on. Doesn’t it seem reasonable that pot is not high on his list of priorities at the moment? Isn’t that, in fact, a good place for it to be? We have more important issues right now. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-dea/484603/17 "2009-02-06T03:44:04Z")
I bet it seems pretty high on the list of priorities of those people who got arrested. That’s just the thing, though. There will _always_ be an issue more important than this one. Does that make it okay to ignore it forever? A couple months ago, Obama’s transition team did a web site with questions from the public, and other members of the public could vote on which question they’d like to see answered. The highest-voted question was about taxing and regulating pot. The answer was a flat, one-sentence, NO. No nuance. No shades of gray. No explanation. Just no. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-dea/484603/18 "2009-02-06T03:51:15Z")
Obama has smoked pot. He knows it’s no big deal. He had the chance to stand up and do the right thing. Instead, he did the thing that he thought would curry the most political favor. Like I said, politics as usual. ---
**Author:** ![imfloating](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bc79bd/32.png) [@imfloating](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/imfloating)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-dea/484603/19 "2009-02-06T03:53:39Z")
I forgot what I was going to say ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-dea/484603/20 "2009-02-06T03:57:58Z")
Excellent username/post/thread combo. 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-dea/484603.md?page=2)