# Fuck the fucking cowards in the Senate **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 25, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-fucking-cowards-in-the-senate/648330 "2013-01-25T16:27:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-fucking-cowards-in-the-senate/648330/21 "2013-01-25T18:16:07Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You slap me. I slap you. We go back and forth, slowly increasing power. You shoot me. > > Both sides equal? Yes. I shot you because you would eventually shoot me. If you didn’t, it would be unequal, because I would be much smarter and aliver than you in the end. But the Republicans didn’t shoot anybody. They used the rules to their perceived advantage. It’s the same thing the Democrats do. It’s what the rules are for. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-fucking-cowards-in-the-senate/648330/22 "2013-01-25T18:18:32Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Yes. I shot you because you would eventually shoot me. If you didn’t, it would be unequal, because I would be much smarter and aliver than you in the end. But the Republicans didn’t shoot anybody. They used the rules to their perceived advantage. It’s the same thing the Democrats do. It’s what the rules are for. I wouldn’t shoot you. Because I’m sane. In fact, I’d stop slapping you if you’d stop slapping me. Look, I appreciate your attempt to see both sides, but this is just silly. No one else, in the history of this country had a standing filibuster. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-fucking-cowards-in-the-senate/648330/23 "2013-01-25T18:22:54Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You will, I assume, admit that the Republicans are using the filibuster way more than at any other time in history, right? And prior to that, Democrats used it way more than at any other time in history (at that time). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-fucking-cowards-in-the-senate/648330/24 "2013-01-25T18:23:12Z")
> [@](#): > > …It’s what the rules are for. True enough, how can you bend, distort and utterly corrupt something that isn’t there? The filibuster served a purpose at one time, it was a steam valve. Let’s say the majority favors something, but in a luke-warm sort of way, but a significant and valid minority opposes it bitterly and fiercely. The filibuster allows a vent for that, and that is a good thing, if it doesn’t get totally out of hand. But it is theater, mostly, and therein lies its value, a demonstration of feeling. If a filibuster can be reduced to nothing more than a quiet gesture that stops legislation in its tracks, or worse, a secret hold placed by threat of filibuster, that’s all fucked up. If somebody hates something bad enough to paralyze the process, I want to know why, I want him to tell me why, and I want to be able to gauge the depth of his anguish. If a guy just shrugs and whispers “filibuster”, that doesn’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-fucking-cowards-in-the-senate/648330/25 "2013-01-25T18:26:59Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You will, I assume, admit that the Republicans are using the filibuster way more than at any other time in history, right? > > Because your childish view that _both sides are equal_ isn’t actually that useful here. Yes… in the same sense that during an auction, the bidder in the lead has bid more than his opponent ever has during that auction. In other words, when the Democrats were last in the minority, THEY used it “way more than at any other time in history.” And prior to that, the last time the GOP was in the minority, they also used it way more than at any other time in history. And I rather suspect that when the Democrats return to the minority, with a Republican in the White House and a Republican-controlled House, they will use it more than the GOP does now. Because in this circumstance, both sides are equal. Except, of course, the Republicans are RIGHT. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-fucking-cowards-in-the-senate/648330/26 "2013-01-25T18:27:05Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > So what? The democrats could come in and triple it next time. What, you think there’s an infinite number of bills dealt with in any session? The number of _non_-filibustered bills is pretty close to zero - this last Congress set a new record by a long shot for fewest bills actually passed, _in history_. The system is \*already \*saturated. Hardly anything worse can happen. Now Reid is depending on McConnell to recognize the repudiation of his approach by We the People, and to be an adult this time, despite his record. Let’s hope that there’s been some private deal made that can be made public immediately if McConnell weasels. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-fucking-cowards-in-the-senate/648330/27 "2013-01-25T18:28:12Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > We can only hope that the Democrats learned from the Republicans how to use it effectively. Of course they won’t because the conversation would go like this: Reid: We intend to filibuster the National Voter ID law. McConnell: Hope you stocked up on No-Doze and Hall’s because we’re going to make you filibuster for real. Reid: Sorry for wasting your time sir. Procedural filibuster withdrawn. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-fucking-cowards-in-the-senate/648330/28 "2013-01-25T18:29:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > What, you think there’s an infinite number of bills dealt with in any session? The number of _non_-filibustered bills is pretty close to zero - this last Congress set a new record by a long shot for fewest bills actually passed, _in history_. The system is \*already \*saturated. Hardly anything worse can happen. Sure it can. Since the rules were changed in that the filibustered bills don’t have that 30 hour discussion window afterwards, the total number of bills submitted and filibustered can definitely go up quite a bit now. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-fucking-cowards-in-the-senate/648330/29 "2013-01-25T18:29:47Z")
…or, in an alternative version of history for Lobohan: …Yes, the Democrats are too fucking stupid to use the rules to their advantage. Only the Republicans grasp this rather simple application of game theory. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-fucking-cowards-in-the-senate/648330/30 "2013-01-25T18:33:17Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And prior to that, Democrats used it way more than at any other time in history (at that time). Terr, buddy. I appreciate your input, but you’re not understanding the issue. There was a slow escalation, the Republicans doubled the number. Look at this chart: [http://talkingpointsmemo.com/images/cloture-stats-chart2.jpg](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/images/cloture-stats-chart2.jpg) When Republicans had control the Democrats escalated it very slightly from the level that Republicans were using. Then they were trending down. When the Republicans slipped to the minority, they doubled the previous number. Not plus 2 or 3 percent, but plus 100 percent. So please stop spreading your nonsense. Okay? It’s okay that you don’t know this, but you shouldn’t pretend that your ignorance is as good as facts. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-fucking-cowards-in-the-senate/648330/31 "2013-01-25T18:36:22Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Terr, buddy. I appreciate your input, but you’re not understanding the issue. > > There was a slow escalation Ah so “slow escalation” is ok then? It’s the “fast escalation” that you object to? And [http://newsjunkiepost.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Cloture-Invoked3Final.png](http://newsjunkiepost.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Cloture-Invoked3Final.png) 50% escalation is not really “slow” is it? Next time when Democrats are in minority, if they do a “slow escalation” of 10% or so on the current level of filibustering, you will be ok with that? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-fucking-cowards-in-the-senate/648330/32 "2013-01-25T18:38:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes… in the same sense that during an auction, the bidder in the lead has bid more than his opponent ever has during that auction. > > In other words, when the Democrats were last in the minority, THEY used it “way more than at any other time in history.” And prior to that, the last time the GOP was in the minority, they also used it way more than at any other time in history. > > And I rather suspect that when the Democrats return to the minority, with a Republican in the White House and a Republican-controlled House, they will use it more than the GOP does now. > > Because in this circumstance, both sides are equal. Except, of course, the Republicans are RIGHT. Bricker, I appreciate that you are taking the time to ineptly support your ideological allies. But, you’re not correct: [http://talkingpointsmemo.com/images/cloture-stats-chart2.jpg](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/images/cloture-stats-chart2.jpg) What happened, is that: Republicans take control. Democrats escalate the number of filibusters very little. Democrats then trend downward in filibuster use for the other sessions that Republicans maintained control. Democrats take control. Republicans escalate the number of filibusters by double. So please, leave this conversation for people that know what they’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-fucking-cowards-in-the-senate/648330/33 "2013-01-25T18:41:19Z")
> [@lobohan](#): > > bricker, i appreciate that you are taking the time to ineptly support your ideological allies. > > But, you’re not correct: > [http://talkingpointsmemo.com/images/cloture-stats-chart2.jpg](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/images/cloture-stats-chart2.jpg) > > what happened, is that: > Republicans take control. Democrats escalate the number of filibusters very little. > Democrats then trend downward in filibuster use for the other sessions that republicans maintained control. > Democrats take control. Republicans escalate the number of filibusters by double. > > So please, leave this conversation for people that know what they’re talking about. bwahahaha!!! ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-fucking-cowards-in-the-senate/648330/34 "2013-01-25T18:42:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > …or, in an alternative version of history for Lobohan: > > …Yes, the Democrats are too fucking stupid to use the rules to their advantage. Only the Republicans grasp this rather simple application of game theory. No, you’re simply unable to understand the issue. Probably because your parents utterly failed to instill upon you an understanding or morality and society. What has happened, is that people used to rely on class and decency to maintain order. Now, since inept, angry people like you have elected people without class or decency to the Senate, we need a rule. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-fucking-cowards-in-the-senate/648330/35 "2013-01-25T18:44:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > bwahahaha!!! I suppose it is easier to shriek in fake laughter than to face the fact that you are wrong. Why are you so afraid of admitting you’re wrong, Bricker? That’s odd, your quote removes a bunch of the capital letters from my post. Did something go weird? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-fucking-cowards-in-the-senate/648330/36 "2013-01-25T19:08:16Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Yes, the Republicans increased the use of the filibuster, just like the Democrats did before them. Please point.to where the chart shows the Democrats increasing its use. Looks like to me the frequency of filibusters reliably drops when Republicans have control of the Senate. And Harry Reid is a pussy. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-fucking-cowards-in-the-senate/648330/37 "2013-01-25T19:12:59Z")
Has there ever been a more despicable person than Bricker? Jesus, if it’s legal, it’s okay for him. It’s a very low level of sociomoral reasoning that he consistently shows. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-fucking-cowards-in-the-senate/648330/38 "2013-01-25T19:14:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Of course. Because Reid knows that someday the Dems will be in the minority again, and will suddenly rediscover how important the filibuster is as a bulwark against the tyranny of the majority. > > And of course the GOP knows that when they’re in the majority, they will rediscover how much the filibuster harms democracy. The consensus belief among the SDMB left is that the current GOP senate minority is using the filibuster in a way that is clearly different than it has ever been used before, raising obstructionism to previously unseen levels. Do you agree or disagree with this claim? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-fucking-cowards-in-the-senate/648330/39 "2013-01-25T19:16:03Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Has there ever been a more despicable person than Bricker? Now you’re just being hyperbolic, and it’s silly, not to mention detracting from the legitimate criticisms of Bricker’s posting style and philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-fucking-cowards-in-the-senate/648330/40 "2013-01-25T19:17:32Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Now you’re just being hyperbolic, and it’s silly, not to mention detracting from the legitimate criticisms of Bricker’s posting style and philosophy. Even I will admit that Bricker isn’t the worst person in the world. He very well may be the worst person in this thread, though. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-fucking-cowards-in-the-senate/648330.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-fucking-cowards-in-the-senate/648330.md?page=3)