# fuck the gloved one **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 26, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-gloved-one/501008 "2009-06-26T00:39:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2009, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-gloved-one/501008/181 "2009-06-27T23:04:55Z")
> [@astro](#): > > As a 51 year old adult male I realize there is spectrum of how well adult males get along with young kids and find enjoyment in interacting with kids. Having said this romping with kids is one thing, but seeking out and constructing opportunities to sleep with unrelated kids is quite another. Re evidence being “so scant” if it quacks like a duck, files like a duck, and waddles like a duck maybe you are expecting an albatross, but I’m pretty sure a duck is in the offing. That’s true, but Michael was bizarre in _so many ways_ that I don’t know if you could apply the same criteria to him as to normal men. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanTigerTamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@SuntanTigerTamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanTigerTamer)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2009, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-gloved-one/501008/182 "2009-06-27T23:09:10Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > That’s true, but Michael was bizarre in _so many ways_ that I don’t know if you could apply the same criteria to him as to normal men. Which is where the Peter Pan thing comes from. I really doubt you would find many to support him if the evidence were stronger. Not many here would jump up to side with a pedophile, no matter how dope “Billie Jean” was… ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-gloved-one/501008/183 "2009-06-27T23:29:32Z")
> [@SuntanTigerTamer](#): > > Which is where the Peter Pan thing comes from. I really doubt you would find many to support him if the evidence were stronger. Not many here would jump up to side with a pedophile, no matter how dope “Billie Jean” was… Honestly, how strong does evidence have to be to classify you as a probable pedophile? Short of being caught in the act with his hand on a kid’s penis any non-famous man who did 1/10th of the nonsense MJ did re sleeping with unrelated kids in his bed, making opportunities to wrestle and romp with them etc. would not be extended one fraction of the benefit of the doubt and the “he’s just a Peter Pan” nonsense that people seem to accord Michael Jackson. I’m starting to understand how run of the mill pedophiles get away with so much if there is really this stupefying level of credulousness out there about the intent of men who like to sleep with unrelated boys. ---
**Author:** ![koufax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@koufax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koufax)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-gloved-one/501008/184 "2009-06-27T23:43:15Z")
If a lawyer called me after my son had accused MJ of molestation and told me that MJ was so upset about this that he was suicidal and that he will soon be entering rehab for all his problems and that this had never ever happened before and my son and our whole family would be dragged through the mud and would probably lose the case an MJ was so very very very sorry and it had never ever ever happened before and he wants to help my son for the rest of his life with a huge $$$ settlement and MJ was weeping and about to jump off a bridge because he was so ashamed and we would never ever win the case and my son’s life would be ruined and MJ was so sad and look at all the kids he had helped and bla blah blah. I’d take the money too. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanTigerTamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@SuntanTigerTamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanTigerTamer)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-gloved-one/501008/185 "2009-06-27T23:45:16Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Honestly, how strong does evidence have to be to classify you as a probable pedophile? Short of being caught in the act with his hand on a kid’s penis any non-famous man who did 1/10th of the nonsense MJ did re sleeping with unrelated kids in his bed, making opportunities to wrestle and romp with them etc. would not be extended one fraction of the benefit of the doubt and the “he’s just a Peter Pan” nonsense that people seem to accord Michael Jackson. > > I’m starting to understand how run of the mill pedophiles get away with so much if there is really this stupefying level of credulousness out there about the intent of men who like to sleep with unrelated boys. The evidence should be pretty damned strong; being accused of pedophilia is about as horrible a charge as possible. I see it the other way: the stupefying level of credulousness belongs to those who would believe without sufficient reason. I’m not saying he wasn’t, I’m saying I don’t know if he was, and there is no direct evidence that suggests he was, so I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I don’t understand why anyone would seem to delight in leveling these charges against him when the evidence is entirely circumstantial. Dio’s best evidence, the description by the boy of Jackson’s penis, wasn’t even enough for the Grand Jury to indict… ---
**Author:** ![SuntanTigerTamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@SuntanTigerTamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanTigerTamer)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2009, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-gloved-one/501008/186 "2009-06-27T23:47:04Z")
> [@koufax](#): > > If a lawyer called me after my son had accused MJ of molestation and told me that MJ was so upset about this that he was suicidal and that he will soon be entering rehab for all his problems and that this had never ever happened before and my son and our whole family would be dragged through the mud and would probably lose the case an MJ was so very very very sorry and it had never ever ever happened before and he wants to help my son for the rest of his life with a huge $$$ settlement and MJ was weeping and about to jump off a bridge because he was so ashamed and we would never ever win the case and my son’s life would be ruined and MJ was so sad and look at all the kids he had helped and bla blah blah. > > I’d take the money too. You’re proving my point. You and I came to very different conclusions on this question. You can’t say the payment is an admission of guilt because you cannot how project how YOU would react into how HE would react. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-gloved-one/501008/187 "2009-06-28T00:11:34Z")
> [@SuntanTigerTamer](#): > > _Only for the reason that you would never hear about it. By most accounts these were just kid-tastic pool parties. His status made him a target that allowed others to go after him for his money and paint a less than savory picture of him._ > Isn’t the above explanation just as likely if we do not have any solid evidence that he was hurting those kids, and plenty of accounts of how kind and caring he was toward the kids that were there? Does it make you feel better to assume that he was a pedophile based on evidence you would never in a million years convict him for? > > He wasn’t my friend, I didn’t know him, and I didn’t have any attachment to his music. I just don’t understand how his pedophilia is “common knowledge” when the evidence suggesting such is so terribly scant. > Also, in response to Dio’s comment that because Michael paid the money means he was guilty, I would say that the parents accepting a settlement is a sign that he was not. If someone touched my kid, I wouldn’t want a fucking penny, I would want his head. Terribly scant. At least 2 court trials. At least 2 payoffs (who knows how many others) . That is a lot .Plus endless stories and rumors. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanTigerTamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@SuntanTigerTamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanTigerTamer)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-gloved-one/501008/188 "2009-06-28T00:25:16Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Terribly scant. At least 2 court trials. At least 2 payoffs (who knows how many others) . That is a lot .Plus endless stories and rumors. Court trials are not evidence. Payoffs are not evidence. Possible, but not reported, payoffs are not evidence. Endless stories and rumors are not evidence. Fighting ignorance indeed… ---
**Author:** ![koufax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@koufax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koufax)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-gloved-one/501008/189 "2009-06-28T00:47:37Z")
Damn, I have a feeling his death will be discussed more than the JFK assassination. Can anyone explain this? Is it possible to alter dates on Craigslist? I would email this guy, but well…I’m scared. There! I said it. Seriously, this is a bit creepy, keeping in with the overall theme of this discussion. [http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rnr/1236192204.html](http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rnr/1236192204.html) ---
**Author:** ![SuntanTigerTamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@SuntanTigerTamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanTigerTamer)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-gloved-one/501008/190 "2009-06-28T01:02:34Z")
[http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rnr/1220138555.html](http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rnr/1220138555.html) \*Not calling you a fool, but thought it was relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-gloved-one/501008/191 "2009-06-28T01:08:44Z")
> [@SuntanTigerTamer](#): > > Also, in response to Dio’s comment that because Michael paid the money means he was guilty, I would say that the parents accepting a settlement is a sign that he was not. If someone touched my kid, I wouldn’t want a fucking penny, I would want his head. Not all parents are responsible and sensible like you. And many children were reluctant to testify. It’s likely they preferred to take the money and get their children help first. Maybe they were easily intimidated. Many child molestors target kids from broken families, parents who are easy to manipulate. Sorry – where there’s smoke, there’s fire. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-gloved-one/501008/192 "2009-06-28T01:25:06Z")
> [@SuntanTigerTamer](#): > > Court trials are not evidence. > Payoffs are not evidence. > Possible, but not reported, payoffs are not evidence. > Endless stories and rumors are not evidence. > > Fighting ignorance indeed… Are you suggesting they mean nothing at all? If your neighbor was on trial twice for child molestation, would you consider him for a baby sitter.?Would that evidence sway you then? If you heard about all his alleged transgressions would you just wave them off ? Hell you would watch him like a hawk. You might even move . ---
**Author:** ![Honey6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c57346/32.png) [@Honey6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey6)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-gloved-one/501008/193 "2009-06-28T02:27:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Still, tricky one for the coroner… do they blame it on sunshine, moonlight, good times or the boogie? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-gloved-one/501008/194 "2009-06-28T02:29:48Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Are you suggesting they mean nothing at all? If your neighbor was on trial twice for child molestation, would you consider him for a baby sitter.?Would that evidence sway you then? > If you heard about all his alleged transgressions would you just wave them off ? Hell you would watch him like a hawk. You might even move . Just for the sake of facts, the first case never went to trial. Doesn’t mean he wasn’t guilty, though. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-gloved-one/501008/195 "2009-06-28T02:41:24Z")
> [@SuntanTigerTamer](#): > > Court trials are not evidence. > Payoffs are not evidence. > Possible, but not reported, payoffs are not evidence. > Endless stories and rumors are not evidence. > > Fighting ignorance indeed… I want you on my Jury if I’m ever caught with dead hooker in my trunk! ---
**Author:** ![SuntanTigerTamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@SuntanTigerTamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanTigerTamer)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-gloved-one/501008/196 "2009-06-28T02:47:07Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I want you on my Jury if I’m ever caught with dead hooker in my trunk! No, you wouldn’t, because that would actually be evidence of a crime… ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-gloved-one/501008/197 "2009-06-28T02:51:52Z")
> [@koufax](#): > > …Instead of helping the gay cause, he turned his back on them. … Er, don’t most gay men turn their backs on other gay men, eventually, occasionally? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-gloved-one/501008/198 "2009-06-28T02:53:21Z")
> [@SuntanTigerTamer](#): > > No, you wouldn’t, because that would actually be evidence of a crime… Not necessarily, there are lots of perfectly innocent reasons I might be cruising around with a dead hooker in my trunk. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanTigerTamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@SuntanTigerTamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanTigerTamer)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-gloved-one/501008/199 "2009-06-28T03:00:35Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Not necessarily, there are lots of perfectly innocent reasons I might be cruising around with a dead hooker in my trunk. Yes. It’s clearly the same thing. Well done. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-gloved-one/501008/200 "2009-06-28T03:07:05Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Have you never met an asexual person? I have, and they are spooky, they are rare, but they are real. Yes, if a pedophile likes to sleep with children, that is a cause for serious concern. But an asexual person might sleep with a boy, a girl, a man, woman or philodendron with equal aplomb and innocence. Spooky? I don’t think I’m spooky. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-gloved-one/501008.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-gloved-one/501008.md?page=11)