# Fuck the leftist purists **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [May 30, 2026, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-leftist-purists/1030485 "2026-05-30T00:40:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2026, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-leftist-purists/1030485/221 "2026-06-03T02:06:55Z")
_77% of Democrat voters thinking that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza_ does not mean that _77% of Democrat voters think that the United States should fundamentally change its relationship with Israel_ without evidence. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2026, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-leftist-purists/1030485/222 "2026-06-03T02:08:46Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > That was the _real_ failing here. The Democrats have no clear vision. They don’t stand for anything apart from “Don’t vote for Trump”. 1. This is bullshit. 2. Even if it weren’t bullshit, “Don’t vote for Trump” ought to be _enough_. It is wildly disingenous to pretend that it’s just mild preference against a gross guy. It’s not correct to say Dems stand for nothing, and it’s an outright lie to say she didn’t talk about the war. She didn’t center it, true, but as you said, it’s a big-tent political effort. This is what her critics were most enraged about… not that she didn’t include enough planks in her platform, but that the concerns of the activist class weren’t elevated over the rest of the coalition. And even if the platform were nothing but “Trump is the most dangerous fascist the world has ever seen, a threat to peace, justice and the climate”, this is worth getting in line and waiting 8 hours for. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2026, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-leftist-purists/1030485/223 "2026-06-03T02:11:13Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > _77% of Democrat voters thinking that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza_ does not mean that _77% of Democrat voters think that the United States should fundamentally change its relationship with Israel_ without evidence. That’s not so much an argument for sticking with existing policy, as it is for giving up the Democrats as a lost cause and fleeing the country. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2026, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-leftist-purists/1030485/224 "2026-06-03T02:26:18Z")
If that’s the thing on one’s list of reasons to flee the country because of existing foreign, as an example, policy, then one’s list in very lacking. There’s nothing in existing Middle East foreign policy that shouldn’t be on one’s list. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2026, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-leftist-purists/1030485/225 "2026-06-03T02:39:11Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > If that’s the thing on one’s list of reasons to flee the country because of existing foreign, as an example, policy, then one’s list in very lacking. It’s more that at that point, the nation isn’t _worth_ fighting for. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2026, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-leftist-purists/1030485/226 "2026-06-03T03:08:56Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > does not mean that _77% of Democrat voters think that the United States should fundamentally change its relationship with Israel_ without evidence. …from the _very same poll_: > [@the very same poll](#): > > In today’s poll, Democrats (75 - 18 percent) and independents (66 - 27 percent) oppose sending more military aid to Israel for their efforts in the war with Hamas, So no, not 77%. 75% of people who vote for the Dems _think that the United States should fundamentally change its relationship with Israel_. I’m glad you bought that up. I had neglected to mention that. But that, along with the 66% of independents who ALSO think that the United States should fundamentally change its relationship with Israel, is quite relevant here. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > “Don’t vote for Trump” ought to be _enough_. Welcome to the real world where things like this can’t be taken for granted. This is _why you lose_. Elections are _won_. You have to _fight_ to win elections. They don’t get handed to you on a platter. I’m not “pretending that it’s just mild preference against a gross guy.” This is the reality of the world that we live in. You’ve got to fight voter suppression. Fight the propaganda. Fight for the poor, fight for the marginalised. You’ve got to give people something to vote for. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > It’s not correct to say Dems stand for nothing What do they stand for? > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > and it’s an outright lie to say she didn’t talk about the war. My “don’t mention the war” was a sarcastic riff on Fawlty Towers. But this was about as much as I remember Harris said about what was happening in Gaza: [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/3vUlpuy7Zuw/maxresdefault.jpg "Kamala Harris says voters ‘also care about grocery prices’ when asked about Gaza protest vote") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vUlpuy7Zuw_o) Can’t you feel the empathy? Gosh, she cares so much about the Palestinian people. Now how about we talk about the price of bread? /s What else did she say? I remember her telling protestors “I’m speaking.” That went down well. I can’t remember much else, not that it matters. Because again: the big problem isn’t that she “didn’t talk about the war”. Because it isn’t a war. It’s a genocide. And the Biden administration was complicit. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > She didn’t center it, true, but as you said, it’s a big-tent political effort. 77% of Democrats think it’s a genocide. 75% of Democrats _wanted to stop funding_ the genocide. This “big tent” doesn’t look that inclusive to me. A very clear majority think that the United States should fundamentally change its relationship with Israel. But the Harris campaign _didn’t even acknowledge this_. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > This is what her critics were most enraged about… not that she didn’t include enough planks in her platform, but that the concerns of the activist class weren’t elevated over the rest of the coalition. It’s a _genocide_. You don’t have to be afraid to say it. Most Democrats believe it. Harris was complicit in the ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people. _That_ was what people were enraged about. The activist class had been beaten up under the Biden administration. The campus protests were an _exemplar_ of that. You can’t be silent while people are doxxed, beaten up, evicted, fired from their jobs, and prevented from getting their diplomas and then expect them to enthusiastically come out and support you. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > And even if the platform were nothing but “Trump is the most dangerous fascist the world has ever seen, a threat to peace, justice and the climate”, this is worth getting in line and waiting 8 hours for. And yet the Dems lost the house, the senate, the executive and the supremes for a generation. But by all means, there is no need for any self-reflection, though. I’m sure if you do the same thing over and over again, then perhaps next time it will work out for you. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2026, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-leftist-purists/1030485/227 "2026-06-03T03:13:54Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > 75% of Democrats _wanted to stop funding_ the genocide. Funny that you still can not provide any evidence for this because “oppose sending **more** military aid to Israel for their efforts in the war with Hamas” ain’t it. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2026, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-leftist-purists/1030485/228 "2026-06-03T03:15:31Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Funny that you still can not provide any evidence for this because “oppose sending **more** military aid to Israel for their efforts in the war with Hamas” ain’t it. …ummm, yes, it actually is. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2026, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-leftist-purists/1030485/229 "2026-06-03T04:40:32Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Funny that you still can not provide any evidence for this because “oppose sending **more** military aid to Israel for their efforts in the war with Hamas” ain’t it. It’s all we can really do. It’s ultimately Israel’s decision to genocide the Palestinians, the US President isn’t King of the World. As a nuclear power outside military invention against Israel isn’t going to happen, the Palestinians lack the military power to defend themselves from Israeli aggression, which means they _are_ going to be genocided. The US doesn’t get a vote in the issue. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2026, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-leftist-purists/1030485/230 "2026-06-03T04:53:01Z")
From your keystrokes to Banquet\_Bear’s brain. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2026, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-leftist-purists/1030485/231 "2026-06-03T04:57:09Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > Anyone with any grasp on reality realizes that a system where the nazis are a party that gets some votes and the rest of the political system isn’t doing enough to oppose them **is denonstrably better** than a system run by nazis. Did you leave out a “no” before the better in the part I bolded? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2026, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-leftist-purists/1030485/232 "2026-06-03T04:58:48Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The US doesn’t get a vote in the issue. …well they _do_, actually. They could help fund and support it, or they could just not do that. > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > From your keystrokes to Banquet\_Bear’s brain. What does this even mean? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2026, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-leftist-purists/1030485/233 "2026-06-03T05:03:32Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …well they _do_, actually. They could help fund and support it, or they could just not do that. Given the power disparity between Israel and the Palestinians it’s performative either way. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2026, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-leftist-purists/1030485/234 "2026-06-03T05:09:24Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Given the power disparity between Israel and the Palestinians it’s performative either way. …no it _wouldn’t_ be performative. At the very least, it would mean they would no longer be _complicit_. But you can do boycotts. You can arrest the war criminals. You can sanction. You can end the funding. There are multiple things you can do without having to put boots on the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2026, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-leftist-purists/1030485/235 "2026-06-03T05:34:02Z")
Another issue, IMHO, is that the DNC tried to call the bluff of these peace purists only to find out that it wasn’t actually a bluff. The DNC, and Harris, were thinking, “Those folks complain about Gaza but don’t actually mean their threats. When push comes to shove, they’ll fall in line and vote Democratic because the only other alternative is Trump-MAGA-GOP. It’s not fun seeing what Israel is doing to Gazans, but they’ll swallow it.” Then on Election Night, the DNC discovered to its horror that these purists actually did mean it. As the saying goes, Democrats fall in love, but Republicans fall in line. It’s not Democrats who fall in line. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2026, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-leftist-purists/1030485/236 "2026-06-03T05:43:55Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …no it _wouldn’t_ be performative. At the very least, it would mean they would no longer be _complicit_. But you can do boycotts. You can arrest the war criminals. You can sanction. You can end the funding. There are multiple things you can do without having to put boots on the ground. Yes, but they won’t work. Once Israel developed nuclear weapon the genocide of the Palestinians became effectively inevitable. Israel was never going to stop short of being forced to at gunpoint by a superior military force. What voting for Trump did was ensure that any of them _here_ will be killed as well. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2026, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-leftist-purists/1030485/237 "2026-06-03T07:46:43Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Once Israel developed nuclear weapon the genocide of the Palestinians became effectively inevitable. …genocide is _never_ inevitable. This one in particular happened because for decades the world looked away. We don’t have to look away any more. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2026, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-leftist-purists/1030485/238 "2026-06-03T07:51:39Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > This one in particular happened because for decades the world looked away. It happened because Israel is a colonialist project; genocide was always going to happen unless forcibly stopped, and the Palestinians are the people available to be killed. Once the Palestinians are dead they’ll pick another target. The whole world could be screaming at them and they wouldn’t stop, Israel is doing what Israel is _for._ ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2026, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-leftist-purists/1030485/239 "2026-06-03T08:00:10Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It happened because Israel is a colonialist project; genocide was always going to happen unless forcibly stopped, and the Palestinians are the people available to be killed. Once the Palestinians are dead they’ll pick another target. The whole world could be screaming at them and they wouldn’t stop, Israel is doing what Israel is _for._ … genocide is _never_ inevitable. I GET that you’ve given up. But the truth is for all the talk about how it’s all the “leftist purists” fault, the reality is that at least the “leftist purists” are _still fighting_. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2026, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-leftist-purists/1030485/240 "2026-06-03T08:02:17Z")
“From the river to the sea.” > **[From the river to the sea | Similar sayings by the Israeli right](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_river_to_the_sea#Similar_sayings_by_the_Israeli_right)** > > The phrase was also used by the Israeli ruling Likud party as part of their 1977 election manifesto which stated "Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty." Likud party leader and prime minister Menachem Begin said that "Judea and Samaria are an inseparable part of Israel's sovereignty". Most recently this has been stated by Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu. S [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-leftist-purists/1030485.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-leftist-purists/1030485.md?page=13)