# Fuck the Motherfucking Pope **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 20, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182 "2010-05-20T21:15:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/261 "2010-05-21T23:33:57Z")
Then I take it killing in self defense is also out, but if that is the case how do they justify a just war. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/262 "2010-05-21T23:34:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You asked me if there were any. How else can I answer? I asked you? I don’t think so. We don’t want your answer, we want the RCC records opened up and examined. If all were promptly turned in to the police or DA over the past 30 or so years where there was a accusation or charge or an admission or a suspicion, then that is a defense. The law required that suspected child molesters be reported per child endangerment laws. The only exceptions under the law that would apply would be confessions that were privileged to clergy, counsel or doctors. And even then, when an action taken on privileged information raised suspicions in others, reporting duties adhere to those outside the privilege, there is no catching privilege cooties. Your argument amounts to the public doesn’t know of any further incidents, therefore, there are none, and no need for an investigation. Nonsense, all unprivileged records are subject to production to an investigating authority requesting them. A message board poster does not get the same benefit that say Bernard Cardinal Law would receive if he testified before a grand jury that no other records existed, rather than flee the country to avoid exactly that. Bernard Cardinal Law isn’t Roman Polanski, molesting children himself, he merely fled the reach of US law to avoid uncovering the extent the RCC covered up child fucking. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/263 "2010-05-21T23:35:02Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > Then I take it killing in self defense is also out, but if that is the case how do they justify a just war. No, once they hit puberty and are no longer so attractive, you can kill 'em. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/264 "2010-05-21T23:41:05Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Life is _sacred_, you know. Just not hers. > > I’m shocked this is a revelation to so many. [Straight from the pony](http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19741118_declaration-abortion_en.html): Well the Catholic church heirarchy can officially go fuck itself. Santimonious shitheads the lot of them. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/265 "2010-05-22T00:23:41Z")
Just a question – what is the Church’s position on shooting someone in self-defense? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/266 "2010-05-22T00:31:28Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Just a question – what is the Church’s position on shooting someone in self-defense? [Permitted](http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/fifth.html): > [@](#): > > 2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one’s own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow: > If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful… Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one’s own life than of another’s.[65] > > 2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another’s life. Preserving the common good requires rendering the unjust aggressor unable to inflict harm. To this end, those holding legitimate authority have the right to repel by armed force aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their charge.[66] ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/267 "2010-05-22T00:46:17Z")
So women are expected to abdicate the right to self defense once they become pregnant? How profoundly, disgustingly sexist! ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/268 "2010-05-22T00:56:55Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Is the official Catholic church position that a woman really should elect to die if she’s in danger from a pregnancy rather than have an abortion? Of course it is. And then we can all wring our hands and speak of her “offering herself up” and grieve her death while glorying in her sacrifice, and other lovely, useless, misogynistic rituals that the Catholic Church revels in. Hell, this is a church that would rather a girl dies than survive a rape. (see Italy, girl, rape, death, virginity): [Saint MariaGoretti](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Goretti) And now let’s talk about symphiotomies in Ireland (about half way down the page). Those celibate old men really know their shit, no? [symphysiotomy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphysiotomy) No C-section for you, woman! It might give you Ideas. But let’s make you incontinent, in constant pain and essentially crippled, all for the idolatry of Life. I think for people like **Bricker** , being Catholic is much more than canon or even doctrine. It’s a culture; a way of life; a method of identity. And since they can’t separate themselves from “being Catholic”, every attack, justified or not (and I think we can all agree that decrying child rape, systematic molestation and preferring the death of the mother to the death of the child-or the death of both over the life of the mother is the decent thing to do), they must defend the indefensible. It helps, of course, that he’s an attorney. The pedantry, picayune bickering and blinders to the obvious are necessary tools in his trade. Abide with him; it’s all he knows. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/269 "2010-05-22T00:58:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Again I disagree. Yes, there are some people that choose to read into posts words that are not there. There are other people (Hi, **Duke**!) that choose not to read posts that are there. But of the two arguments made, one was _the church’s coverup up rapist pedophiles makes them scumbags_, and the second was _They won’t take the time to fix the pedophile problem, but they do spend time on excommunicating this nun._ And that second point simply isn’t true; no time was spent; it was an automatic process, and you yourself acknowledged that but for my posting here, you would not have known that. Actually, phrased this way, i’m not so sure I agree. We just shift the active part back a bit; rather than there being an active charge of Catholic priests to go out and excommunicate, instead, there was at one point in history apparently a time when this particular piece of Canon law was written in which Catholic priests actively decided to include an automatic excommunication, and did not choose to add a similar note for cases of child abuse. They didn’t take the time to fix the pedophile problem, and they did spend time on excommunicating this nun (in general); it just wasn’t now. Thanks for the answer to my question a while back, though. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/270 "2010-05-22T01:13:01Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Of course it is. And then we can all wring our hands and speak of her “offering herself up” and grieve her death while glorying in her sacrifice, and other lovely, useless, misogynistic rituals that the Catholic Church revels in. Hell, this is a church that would rather a girl dies than survive a rape. (see Italy, girl, rape, death, virginity): [Saint MariaGoretti](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Goretti) That’s pretty fucked up right there. In “my perfect little world”, she would have blown the sumbitch’s head off. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/271 "2010-05-22T01:44:26Z")
God, my family’s Catholic, and they aren’t that hardcore! (Mom had her tubes tied, for example) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/272 "2010-05-22T02:08:19Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > I asked you? I don’t think so. We don’t want your answer, we want the RCC records opened up and examined. If all were promptly turned in to the police or DA over the past 30 or so years where there was a accusation or charge or an admission or a suspicion, then that is a defense. The law required that suspected child molesters be reported per child endangerment laws. The only exceptions under the law that would apply would be confessions that were privileged to clergy, counsel or doctors. And even then, when an action taken on privileged information raised suspicions in others, reporting duties adhere to those outside the privilege, there is no catching privilege cooties. This is untrue. The law mandating reporting is relatively recent – not thirty years old. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/273 "2010-05-22T02:14:59Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > See post #217. And this: [http://www.socialistdemocracy.org/Reviews/ReviewDeliverUsFromEvil.html](http://www.socialistdemocracy.org/Reviews/ReviewDeliverUsFromEvil.html) > > Ratzi, Mahoney, their attorneys, and others did their damndest to cover up or transfer offending priests and then refused to give up information. God knows how many molesters were allowed to run amok because their superiors wanted it hushed up and used/abused their power. So who in there is accused but not defrocked? Your link mentions: defrocked priest John Geoghan – yes, he’s defrocked Father Oliver O’Grady – defrocked Who else? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/274 "2010-05-22T02:17:56Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Now, y’see, therein lies the rub for thinking beings. > > And seriously, Catholic bashing? In a thread titled **Fuck the Motherfucking Pope** , who’d have thunk it? I am shocked, I tell you, shocked! Um… Uh… Yeah, good point. Knda stupid to wander into this thread and complain about that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/275 "2010-05-22T02:47:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > This is untrue. > > The law mandating reporting is relatively recent – not thirty years old. Yet by 1967 all 50 states had such laws. The last time I checked, 43 years is less recent than 30 years. Unless I’m not using canonical counting. Go on, ask me for a cite. Your conservative catholic hispanic government employee google fu is no match for my liberal protestant private enterprise middle aged white guy google-fu! ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/276 "2010-05-22T04:49:18Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Sure, I just think that Hooters hold no general disdain for the male gender, nor seek to have a say in their lives outside of their establishment. And dog people don’t tend to have any more than average disdain for felines! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/277 "2010-05-22T05:25:48Z")
Hoenstly, I don’t understand the OP. Yes, sure the church is a league of pedoophiles and enablers, but IMO this woman is lucky to be out of it. She may not understand it now, but the church did her a favor by excommunicating her. ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/278 "2010-05-22T05:44:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s fair. > > But at the same time, I can hardly concede an accusation that they have failed to act, or that they are NOT following their procedures now. You absolutely have cause to regard this representation with suspicion, but what else can be said, except “Time will tell?” I think what can be said is the Roman Cocksuckers Cabal’s own [history](http://www.scpr.org/news/2010/04/25/timeline-priest-abuse-claims-date-back-decades/) on the subject is instructive enough. > [@Bricker](#): > > So who in there is accused but not defrocked? > > Who else? How about good ol’ [Lawrence Murphy](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/world/europe/25vatican.html). But we have to give Ratzy his credit here – even if he doesn’t give a shit about women, children, gays, or Africans, at least he does know how to show compassion to old men who like to rape deaf boys! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/279 "2010-05-22T06:30:06Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Hoenstly, I don’t understand the OP. Yes, sure the church is a league of pedoophiles and enablers, but IMO this woman is lucky to be out of it. She may not understand it now, but the church did her a favor by excommunicating her. The point of what Bricker is saying is that having an abortion automatically excommunicates you, although this is rarely taken that seriously. My understanding is that you go to priest, say I had an abortion, the priest says say 7 hail marys or something like that, and you’re perfectly fine. In other words, it’s no worse than any other sin, despite the intimidating name. If you want to argue that the church should not consider abortion a sin, I’ll agree, but, right now, I think it has a more urgent issue to deal with, first. Get rid of the pedos, and get that law fixed, and then we can work on getting abortion fixed, too. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/280 "2010-05-22T06:39:22Z")
> [@akennett](#): > > How about good ol’ [Lawrence Murphy](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/world/europe/25vatican.html). But we have to give Ratzy his credit here – even if he doesn’t give a shit about women, children, gays, or Africans, at least he does know how to show compassion to old men who like to rape deaf boys! Well, to be fair to **Bricker** , he never argued that every child molester known to the Church was defrocked. His argument has been that, under the _current_ Church policies (instituted fairly recently), all credible accusation lead to defrocking. I don’t know if that’s actually true or not, but the guy you referred to died in 1998, before the revised policies took effect. However, **Bricker** , the story linked by **akennett** reinforces the point i was making earlier. No matter what the new policies are, and no matter how well they are enforced from this point on, the continued presence in the Church, at the very highest levels (including Pope), of people who were complicit in the cover-ups and the immoral behavior, means that the Church itself is still guilty, as an institution. When something this bad happens, and people in positions of authority are involved, you don’t just get to change the policy and leave those people in place, and expect that no-one will notice, and that no-one will care. I’m not talking here about priests or other members of the church who couldn’t be expected to know what was going on; i’m talking about people who were charged with overseeing the very branches of the Church that dealt with these sorts of issues. If a loan officer in a bank oversees unethical or fraudulent behavior, it is not acceptable for the bank to kick him upstairs to Vice President or CEO and tell the world that its new loan officer will do things right from now on. nor should that be the case here. The Church constantly presents itself as an institution that is organic and interconnected, and that holds to principles that are (or should be) universal. As long as Ratzinger and others who were complicit in this crime remain in the Church, it remains guilty, no matter how much its policies and practices have changed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182.md?page=15)