# Fuck the Motherfucking Pope **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 20, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182 "2010-05-20T21:15:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/541 "2010-05-25T16:05:10Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > I’m not sure how Catholicism is on actions vs beliefs, but for Jews, it isn’t a “betrayal” to try to make things more convenient on Shabbat without breaking the traditional mitzvot. The actions _are_ the important thing. People from majority Christian cultures always seem to have a hard time with this. So God’s rules are just there to see if his people can display a little ingenuity in workarounds? I don’t think so no matter how conveniently convenient it is. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/542 "2010-05-25T16:20:03Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > So God’s rules are just there to see if his people can display a little ingenuity in workarounds? > > I don’t think so no matter how conveniently convenient it is. Jewish belief reminds me a little of, say, a test with very particular rules. The point is to show you can follow instructions–that you’ll take the time and effort to read and understand the intricacies of the test. That is different than the Christian viewpoint, where it’s allegedly the spirit of the law that matters (though all too often the spirit is thrown right out the window). They are very different approaches to living the life God demands. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/543 "2010-05-25T16:21:32Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > So God’s rules are just there to see if his people can display a little ingenuity in workarounds? > > I don’t think so no matter how conveniently convenient it is. My point is that it isn’t a workaround. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/544 "2010-05-25T16:24:10Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > The point is one cannot say a fertilised(since you want that) is a chicken, frog, or any animal, or human. A human egg may become a person when fertilised or left to grow can become a person, but it is not a person yet, and the life is the same life that is in a sperm or egg! To be fair, “person” is a philosophical, sociological term that is a lot mushier than differentiating between human and frog cells. And it is true that a fertilized egg is substantially different from either an unfertilized egg or a sperm. Suddenly there is all the information and potential for a unique human life in there, and usually if left undisturbed it would become an individual human being. Some people feel that this is included in the definition of “person.” I can respect that, kind of. So let’s say there’s (magically) a fully independent adult living in a woman’s fallopian tube. He’s there through no fault of his own, and the only way to get him out is to kill him. But if he stays, both he and the woman would die. What is the moral thing to do? To people who believe a zygote is a person, this is the relevant hypothetical. I happen to think it’s OK to kill him. So I support abortion on two grounds - I don’t think a fetus before about 20 weeks could possibly qualify as a person, and even if it did, it is OK to kill them in some circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/545 "2010-05-25T16:28:57Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > So be it. And the “IT” I refer to is "an ectopic pregnancy, not the gender, if gender could yet be determined, of said ectopic pregnancy. “IT” is not a baby, a viable fetus, even a zygote–it’s a ticking time bomb. As for your query re personhood being dependent on it being harmful to the mother, I say that’s a nonsensical statement. About the only thing in your post that does make sense is your admitting to be a misogynist. I disagree with your POV, but I appreciate your honesty. That wit, razor sharp. By gender you mean sex, right? You seem fixated on personhood depending on viability. Personhhod, and therefore rights, are are proper to the being not to the possible future, even if that future is 99.999% likely. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > An ectopic pregnancy isn’t viable either. It seems there are exactly [THREE](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectopic_pregnancy#Cases_with_live_birth) documented cases of live ectopic births. THREE. Shouldn’t that tell you something? > Fuck it. Of course it tells me something. It tells me that we need to save the life of the mother while trying (even if failure is almost certain) to save the baby. > [@Waenara](#): > > And I note that none of those three ectopic pregnancies were in the fallopian tube. They were extrauterine, on the omentum, or in the ovary. > > As you say, hydratidiform moles are non-viable. Why do you say “no need to kill it before removal”? How, exactly, would you remove it _without_ killing it? And if removal will kill it, why not use the medical procedure that has the best outcome and least risks, even if that involves “killing” it before removal, or as part of removal? (as much as you can “kill” something that’s totally non-viable). I simply wanted to make sure I didn’t get a “gotcha” reply. The removal of the baby/foetus/embyo/hydatiform should be done preserving its integrity as far as possible. You can kill a non-viable being. You can kill a dieing person. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > As a side note, and at the risk of inviting further specious accusations of anti-Catholic bias and giving Bricker further excuses for ignoring my questions, why is it important to come up with a hairsplitting workaround? Surely God won’t be fooled. > > Some orthodox Jews do this, too, like rigging elevators to work automatically on Saturdays so one can ride without having to push any buttons, so it’s not a Catholic-specific thing, but a religion-specific thing, though I guess there are some libertarians and communists who perform similar backflips to avoid a perceived betrayal of their beliefs. It isn’t a workaround. It following the simple “don’t kill innocents” rule. I’ll let Orthodox Jews explain themselves, > [@Icerigger](#): > > Why are the Catholics so harsh with this doctrine? No other religion that I know of, Judaism, most Protestant faiths even Islam treats a zygote as more important than a woman’s life or health. So where do these views come from? It doesn’t come from scripture where abortion is not mentioned in fact a good case can be made that the bible treats the fetus as much less than a human life. The one of the first Chistian writing not in the New Testament is possibly the Didache > [@](#): > > **DIDACHE** > “The second commandment of the teaching: You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not seduce boys. You shall not commit fornication. You shall not steal. You shall not practice magic. You shall not use potions. You shall not procure [an] abortion, nor destroy a newborn child” (Didache 2:1–2 [A.D. 70]). > [@RTFirefly](#): > > I think Catholics would argue that the fertilized egg, embryo, etc. are persons in the moral sense, hence their lives have _equal_ value to the lives of those of us who have already been born. > > Two things I’d say about this. The first is that some of the practices mentioned in this thread, IMHO, do in fact treat the zygote’s life as more valuable. That’s arguable, I’m sure, and while I don’t care to get into one more argument, it’s definitely how I see it. > > The second is that it’s the sort of abstraction one experiences from the types (I’m thinking of libertarians, in particular, but they’re hardly the only ones) who build up elaborate theoretical systems of ethics that fail to meaningfully take into account common aspects of reality as people actually experience it. > > In this case, I mean, if my wife was pregnant and hospitalized, unconscious, and I was confronted with the choice to save her life or that of the fetus, there’s no way in God’s creation that I’d be mentally flipping a coin to decide which life to save. That would be insane; only a moral monster would find this anything but an automatic choice. > > But that’s the nature of pure, abstract moral systems: they create moral monsters. Hello, RCCC. You can choose to save a life without having to kill the other. RCCC? > [@monavis](#): > > The point is one cannot say a fertilised(since you want that) is a chicken, frog, or any animal, or human. A human egg may become a person when fertilised or left to grow can become a person, but it is not a person yet, and the life is the same life that is in a sperm or egg! The zygote is not the same tyype of life a sperm or egg. Basic biology says so. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/546 "2010-05-25T16:39:50Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > The zygote is not the same type of life a sperm or egg. Basic biology says so. That doesn’t automatically put it into the category as baby, though. It’s like saying that because a fish isn’t a cat, it therefore _must_ be a dog. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/547 "2010-05-25T16:53:55Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > SteveG1 responded, “Well, they did compare their detractors to the Nazis,” ignoring the point and twisting our exchange into a debate into something he’d prefer it to be, simultaneously getting a fun little dig in. “Of course the Church has done nothing, remember when they compared their detractors to Nazis?” seems to be the logic. Kills two birds with one stone–ignores the facts conveniently and bashes the RCC. I think the point is not so much that the RCC has done _nothing_–since obviously they’ve done something–but how sincere they are about it and, more importantly, _how much they truly comprehend how deeply they fucked up_. To enact new, better regulations for reporting while at the same time wailing that you’re being persecuted in the same way as the Jews around the time of WWII… That’s a big fucking red flag that at least some elements of the Church _still don’t get it_. And where there is this staggering lack of comprehension, there is the possibility of recidivism. > [@Ionizer](#): > > If I might ask this to help understand more clearly - are females/women allowed to make any policy/canon-law changes? Pope \> Cardinals \> Bishops. All male. > [@Polycarp](#): > > To rearrange your analogy, you are on a rooftop attempting to talk a suicidal mother holding her infant child out of jumping. When your efforts to keep both alive fail and she starts to jump, would it not be the moral course to grab the baby from her and save at least its life, even if you cannot save hers as well? For someone who believes that personhood begins at the moment of conception, this wouldn’t be a valid analogy. Abortion to save a woman’s life isn’t snatching the baby back while the mother falls–it’s taking an opportunity to shove the mother off the roof so that you can get the baby from her instead of risking her jumping while still holding it. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Some orthodox Jews do this, too, like rigging elevators to work automatically on Saturdays so one can ride without having to push any buttons [hijack]In my ICC10 run last Wednesday, I observed that since Icecrown Citadel is full of all of these constantly running elevators, the Lich King must be Jewish.[/hijack] > [@elbows](#): > > I don’t know about where you are, but where I live this is exactly what’s practiced by the Muslim community. I think that was the point–that’s the general practice, but most non-Muslims are completely unaware of it. > [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > So let’s say there’s (magically) a fully independent adult living in a woman’s fallopian tube. I can’t help but think of the old \*Onion \*article “[Eight-Pound Man Removed From Woman’s Vagina](http://www.theonion.com/articles/eightpound-man-removed-from-womans-vagina,332/).” ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/548 "2010-05-25T17:23:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That doesn’t automatically put it into the category as baby, though. It’s like saying that because a fish isn’t a cat, it therefore _must_ be a dog. It has a full and unique set of human genes. It’s either a human being or it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/549 "2010-05-25T17:32:21Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > The reason for not murdering people is just allowing others the same privileges as for your self. The Golden Rule is just a common sense thing to help people live a better life, The Buddah didn’y expect the golden rule to appease an angry god, but to help people survive in a peaceful way to sustain the species. > It is better for the entire population of the world if people take the consideration of others, what or how the kind of life we all have, if we can cooperate or look out for each other. > > If the only way some may want it to be is becaue of some religious idea..fine, but some do not need it. and there are many believers who even would use God to Kill, such as what happend (and happens now). Even in early Bible stories the Jews used killing as an example :what happened after the Jews left the dessert, and went in to Jericho to get the land. The crusades, and jihad is also used as anexcuse to kill others. A) How is this relevant? B) Did the Buddha even care about the survival of the species? He taught that our ultimate goal should be nibbana, the cessation of rebirth, did he not? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/550 "2010-05-25T17:34:53Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > The short answer is becuase they’re stupid. > > The slightly longer answer, and one that reflects my own disdain of any organised religion, is that such people think that observing the rituals and being seen to be good _whatevers_ is more important than the actual purpose (as I perceive it) of religion which is to be good people. > > In other words - they’re like Bricker. Following the rules in such a way that lets you say, look at me, I am a good person, is more important than the actual purpose of the rules and the intended outcomes. And of course, you are the best judge of what the actual purpose of the rules are, right? Well, bad news: I can’t speak for the Jews, but we Catholics all got together last Tuesday and held a meeting, and we decided you didn’t really know enough to be considered a reliable source of information on the actual purpose of our rules. So forgive us, please, if we listen to your pronouncements now with a bit of a distracted air. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/551 "2010-05-25T17:44:43Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > That wit, razor sharp. > By gender you mean sex, right? You seem fixated on personhood depending on viability. Personhhod, and therefore rights, are are proper to the being not to the possible future, even if that future is 99.999% likely. What wit? I included no humor in my post. You seem fixated on one sperm and one egg=human life. It doesn’t. It does often, but not always. Viability matters the first few months of any pregnancy–many a fertilized egg does not implant or the pregnancy proceed. In words you can understand: the baby doesn’t grow. Riddle me this: if the fertilized egg (the ectopic pregnancy) is surgically removed from the Fallopian, how come the Church does not then insist on everything possible being done to nurture this “person”–petrie dish, artificial womb etc? Afterall, it has the same rights as dear old mom. The Church merely cavils at destroying the EP while it’s in the woman–it has no compunction about killing it once it’s been removed. They call its removal a secondary cause of demise or some such dry, distant phrase, all the while putting dear old mom at more risk. But she’s just a woman; her only value to the Church is as a vessel for more members. Sentient females certainly are not valued within the Church. If anything, the Church’s approach to this is even more evil than it first appears: instead of doing the safest thing, their “rules” put “mom” at risk AND then they go against their espoused principles and destroy the “person” they put mom at risk to save. Pontius Pilate could take lessons from the Church. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > I simply wanted to make sure I didn’t get a “gotcha” reply. The removal of the baby/foetus/embyo/hydatiform should be done preserving its integrity as far as possible. Why? Why does the integrity of something that is incapable of surviving or growing into something that will survive matter? Are funerals for hydatiform moles and ectopic pregnancies common in the Church? First I’d heard of it. Does a priest come and perform whatever they now call Last Rites? I fully understand the parents grieving the loss of potential, but that is what is lost: the potential of a future baby, there was no baby. EP and HM are cruel tricks nature plays on people–unless you interpret them as God’s will, which adds another whole level of pain on hurting people. But that’s another thread. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/552 "2010-05-25T17:46:10Z")
He’s done a better job by far of offering an actual explanation than you have, **Bricker**. Try it. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/553 "2010-05-25T18:02:08Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Except that there was a poster here ( **runner pat**?) who stated that when she was found to be carrying a dead fetus, the Catholic hospital she was at refused to allow her doctor to perform a D&C. I remember someone bringing this up, too–definitely not **runner pat** , though, since he’s a, well, he. \*\*Guin \*\*maybe? > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > It has a full and unique set of human genes. > It’s either a human being or it isn’t. A fetus is definitely human and definitely alive (so is a brain dead body hooked to life support). The question is, is it a _ **person** _, entitled to the same rights as a fully developed human being? Many of us say no. ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/554 "2010-05-25T18:07:11Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Of course it tells me something. It tells me that we need to save the life of the mother while trying (even if failure is almost certain) to save the baby. But they are not, at all, trying to save the baby. They are removing the fallopian tube with the egg inside. The egg will then die. There is no attempt to “save the baby”, because there is no way to do that. Repeat: there is NO WAY WHATSOEVER to save this egg. It is going to die. Now, given that - what is the purpose of requiring the removal of the fallopian tube, rather than just the removal of the egg? > [@](#): > > You can choose to save a life without having to kill the other. Not when the “other life” is an ectopic pregnancy in a fallopian tube. That egg is going to die. You can kill it in the fallopian tube prior to removal or you can kill it by removing the fallopian tube, but you’re going to kill it one way or the other. The only other option is for the egg to die when it ruptures the fallopian tube and kills the mother. > [@](#): > > The removal of the baby/foetus/embyo/hydatiform should be done preserving its integrity as far as possible. What??? What the hell is the “integrity” of an egg or hydatiform mole? So now, it’s acceptable to risk a woman’s life because the INTEGRITY of a non-viable pregnancy is more important than her life? Yeah, I think “misogynist” is the correct label for you. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/555 "2010-05-25T18:32:29Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > You can choose to save a life without having to kill the other. Maybe I wasn’t clear. I was positing a situation where I indeed had to choose between the life of the fetus and that of my wife - that, in all likelihood, at most one would survive. > [@](#): > > RCCC? Roman Catholic Criminal Conspiracy. That is to say, those fleecing the flock, as distinct from the flock itself. ---
**Author:** ![Denis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5e9695/32.png) [@Denis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Denis)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/556 "2010-05-25T18:38:43Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Roman Catholic Criminal Conspiracy. That is to say, those fleecing the flock, as distinct from the flock itself. Currently headed up by Joey the Rat.:eek: The RCC hierarchy has some 'splaining to do. And a lot of amends to make. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/557 "2010-05-25T19:12:33Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > The question is, is it a _ **person** _, entitled to the same rights as a fully developed human being? Many of us say no. And many of us say yes. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/558 "2010-05-25T19:20:03Z")
And your opnion takes precedence, to the point where you can call other views “wrong” with absolute dismissiveness, why? :dubious: Because you Believe, and anyone who disagrees therefore must not Believe and must give way? Is that pretty much it? That’s the only basis you have for your continuing to try to rationalize away all the other repugnant, horrible stuff your church has done and continues to do, right? Your choice to Believe in them, facts notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/559 "2010-05-25T19:20:08Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I remember someone bringing this up, too–definitely not **runner pat** , though, since he’s a, well, he. \*\*Guin \*\*maybe? It must be someone else, then. Not **Guin.** If I have time later, I’ll search through the thread. “Search” is turning up nothing. Never mind. It’s **aruqvan** , post #289. [GottaLoveThatChurch!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12484937&highlight=rotting+placenta#post12484937) Ok, so now I can’t open that link. Sorry, folks, but I have to do RL things now. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182/560 "2010-05-25T19:34:07Z")
> [@redtail23](#): > > Now, given that - what is the purpose of requiring the removal of the fallopian tube, rather than just the removal of the egg? Equivocation. > [@Bricker](#): > > And many of us say yes. But you have no evidence for your position, other than “the magical sky wizard told me so.” So, thank goodness, in this country a zygote currently has the same rights as the invisible untouchable non-heat-producing anaerobic floating dragon in my garage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-motherfucking-pope/540182.md?page=29)