# Fuck the Neocolonialist. Fuck them hard. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 29, 2007, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-neocolonialist-fuck-them-hard/402100 "2007-04-29T23:41:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-neocolonialist-fuck-them-hard/402100/181 "2007-05-04T03:21:31Z")
**Acid Lamp** , if you’d bothered to actually read the part about what happened to India, you’d realize that it’s all about suppressing native industry. British apologetics aside, the whole colonial enterprise was about routing all trade through London, and sourcing as much as possible from the UK. In the process, native enterprise was going to suffer. The US became the US in part because the small Northern cities, Boston - the center of the revolution in the North - New York, and Philadelphia resented British attempts to suppress their initial stabs at development. The British template worked the same way wherever it went. More or less at the same time as the Indian famines cited above, Ireland went through its own potato famine, for instance. Admitting some tiny number to Oxford doesn’t really make up for having folks dying like flies from hunger. So, to wish for colonialism to take over again to train some useless “core” to run whatever country you’re talking about is just stupid beyond belief. Most countries that went through colonialism had quite enough of such British, or French or Belgian or whatever, “cores” to last them many, many lifetimes. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-neocolonialist-fuck-them-hard/402100/182 "2007-05-04T05:50:33Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] And my brown ancestors never cooked and killed their fellow man, as far back as I can find out. That’s just subhuman. [/QUOTE] Ethnocentrist! ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-neocolonialist-fuck-them-hard/402100/183 "2007-05-04T06:15:00Z")
[QUOTE=Ryan\_Liam] Like I give a shit? as Empires go, of course there’s a detrement to the host, but what you’re doing is taking isolated examples of our Colonial history and applying it as a gross generalisation of Empire. [/QUOTE] Of course you don’t give a shit. You’ve demostrated amply in your postings on this board that you’ll never let the facts get in the way of your worldview. I’m not taking isolated examples. I am criticizing the entire political and economic structure that lay at the base of most colonialism–a political and economic structure which did impoverish many countries and did prevent industrialization, and which was racist at its core. But, you know, I’ll let you show me where Indians or Africans had equal rights under colonial rule. Of course, you can’t, because it never happened. I’ll let you show me the massive amounts of industrialization that went on in India. Oh, wait. That never happened either. > [@](#): > > The Indian government is directly modelled on the UK legal system and UK Government, they have a labour pool of English speaking nationals, and a railway system all over the country which was built by, yes you guess it, the British (which is the largest maintained in the world) The vast majority of the railway system was constructed after independence. That’s why its the largest in the world you shit head. > [@](#): > > Gandhi went to Oxford for chrissakes, we’re not French or Russian, proactively keeping the populace dumb so they’re ripe for manipulation. I’ll remind you too that the British were usually invited into areas in India by _Raj princes themselves._ To assume that Colonialism is just a one way street in which a foreign power just comes in Normandy style and takes over, is ridiculous. The irony of this is that most of the native rulers wanted the British there. How does any of this contradict the fact that colonialism ruined the Indian economy? How does it contradict the fact that poverty and income inequality increased tremendously under colonial rule? How does it contradict the fact that India almost completely failed to industrialize under colonial rule. In any immoral system, you can always find people who benefit from it. Otherwise the system wouldn’t survive for any given period of time. The fact that most of the native rulers wanted the British there doesn’t change the fact that the British destroyed the Indian economy. > [@](#): > > That’s right, quote me out of context and assume I’m saying all Indians were dumb motherfuckers before we arrived. Stupid bastard. French Colonialists accepted their natives into their prestigious universities and enabled them to enact local laws and business right? The context is that you’re a racist asshole who hasn’t made even a minimal attempt to study colonialism. You were trying to justify colonialism with the fact that a few people were edcucated at British schools. Of course the fact that the vast majority of the population was left uneducated doesn’t bother you. > [@](#): > > In name only, the UK has a constitutional monarchy, but not a cabinet full of the Queens nephews, sons or daughters. Deeds by actions, not by words. Duh. Right. Made up definition day. If you want to argue that it was a bad or croniest constitutional monarcy, I’ll agree. But to state it wasn’t a constitutional monarchy is nonsense. > [@](#): > > Was I even replying to you? Is your username **BrainGlutton**? If you’re gonna throw accusations, try not typing oxymoronic statements dickhead. You were quoting me, puss-for-brains. I assumed you left the attribution off. > [@](#): > > ‘Possibility’ doesn’t translate into actual reality. I’m sure 2 million dead Afghans will thank you for that. If Colonialism doesn’t work, it explains why the Communist ‘Empire’ is pretty much dead. How come your so concerned about the Afghani dead and you don’t care about the people killed by colonialism? Oh, right. Because if you did, you wouldn’t be able to justify colonialism. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-neocolonialist-fuck-them-hard/402100/184 "2007-05-04T06:33:48Z")
I need to amend my previous statement about the Indian railways. I’ve stumbled across some sites that claim a larger mileage for pre-independence railways than I’ve encountered before. I’ll have to research this a bit more. ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-neocolonialist-fuck-them-hard/402100/185 "2007-05-04T06:55:28Z")
[QUOTE=BrightNShiny] …You were quoting me, puss-for-brains. … [/QUOTE] So _that’s_ where the phrase “mind fuck” comes from. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-neocolonialist-fuck-them-hard/402100/186 "2007-05-04T07:37:59Z")
[QUOTE=Acid Lamp] Again, Die in a fire. Not EVERY person of caucasion descent is responsible for slavery, or has a contiguous culture. I’m of slavic and central asian ancestery. My forebearers didn’t arrive in the USA until the 1940’s. ME and Mine had NOTHING, NOTHING to do with any of the history that you seem to feel demonizes contemporary whites. I’ve had enough of trying to argue with a juvenile fuckwit who can’t admit simple facts, nor be bothered to look up or apply the definition of the term “racist”. [/QUOTE] Nice try and way to completely distort the issue. All white people aren’t being blamed for stuff that happened 100 years ago. _Individuals_ are being blamed for advocating on behalf of a racist system _in the present day._ I’m off to study for finals again. Flame away. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-neocolonialist-fuck-them-hard/402100/187 "2007-05-04T08:00:06Z")
[QUOTE=Acid Lamp] You know, up until this point i’ve been civil. In all seriousness, go fuck yourself. It’s racist pricks like yourself who continue to harp on the atrocities of past generations as an excuse for a lack of personal accountability. SO a white person cannot say anything about any other culture if the inhabitants happen to have a different skin tone. :dubious: [/QUOTE] A White person can say all they like, and I’ll just shrug. A White person calls for Black people to recolonised, you betcha I’m calling Racism. You just can’t fucking comprehend, can you? I have no problem with people pointing out Africa has problems. It’s the **particular solution being proposed** , and its nasty, hidden _underpinnings_, that I have a problem with. But hey, call me racist for pointing out that something’s racist, that’s a good one. [QUOTE=Acid Lamp] Again, Die in a fire. Not EVERY person of caucasion descent is responsible for slavery, or has a contiguous culture. I’m of slavic and central asian ancestery. My forebearers didn’t arrive in the USA until the 1940’s. ME and Mine had NOTHING, NOTHING to do with any of the history that you seem to feel demonizes contemporary whites. I’ve had enough of trying to argue with a juvenile fuckwit who can’t admit simple facts, nor be bothered to look up or apply the definition of the term “racist”. [/QUOTE] Firstly, wishing death on other posters is a big no-no. Secondly, nice _strawman_. I was _very specific_ about who was being pitted in my OP, and exactly what class of posts were the cause of the OP. If you’re the kind of racist fuck that it fits, _own_ your fucking prejudice, mate, don’t try and reflect it back on me. It’s people who want Africa to be recolonised that I’m calling racist fucks, not all Whites or all British folk or whatever. Hell, even an African American person could come along and advocate recolonisation, and I’d still say the underpinnings of the strategy they’re using are, at heart, racist. It’s not a racist ideology because it’s White people doing it (although it usually is, here on the SDMB), it’s racist because of the generalisations and prejudices it holds about Africans. Your attempt at calling it ethnocentric classism is just stupid, because anyone with half a brain can see that that is just an attempt to run away from the racist label. I don’t know why, I wouldn’t be any prouder of calling myself an “ethnocentric classist”, but hey, clearly the term “racist” stung. Well, Boo-fucking-hoo. I noticed you didn’t bother to actually counter what makes _White-on-Black_ “Ethnocentric Classism” _not_ racist. Because you can’t, you dumb fuck. Oh, and **Scissorjack** : 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-neocolonialist-fuck-them-hard/402100/188 "2007-05-04T12:49:07Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] Your attempt at calling it ethnocentric classism is just stupid, because anyone with half a brain can see that that is just an attempt to run away from the racist label. I don’t know why, I wouldn’t be any prouder of calling myself an “ethnocentric classist”, but hey, clearly the term “racist” stung. Well, Boo-fucking-hoo. I noticed you didn’t bother to actually counter what makes _White-on-Black_ “Ethnocentric Classism” _not_ racist. Because you can’t, you dumb fuck. Oh, and **Scissorjack** : 😃 [/QUOTE] Allright fucktard, I’ll play ball. > [@](#): > > According to the Oxford English Dictionary, racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another race or races. The Merriam-Webster online dictionary defines racism as a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race, and that it is also the prejudice based on such a belief. From the Wiki link [HERE](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism) SO far you have failed to prove, **in any terms whatsoever** that any of the people you were pitting were basing their outlook based on an “Ideology that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another race or races.” The only thing I took issue with you with was your casual application of an inflammatory term that you seem to think means whatever you’d like it to mean. I further stated that it was a combination of Africa’s climate and the general nature on the native cultures that have combined to make such a bad situation in a post racist system. Ethnocentrism is defined thusly: > [@](#): > > Ethnocentrism is the tendency to look at the world primarily from the perspective of your own culture. This term was coined by Elena Jacobs Jaye Lau, a social evolutionist and professor of Political and Social Science at Yale University. He defined it as the viewpoint that “one’s own group is the center of everything,” against which all other groups are judged. Ethnocentrism often entails the belief that one’s own race or ethnic group is the most important and/or that some or all aspects of its culture are superior to those of other groups. Within this ideology, individuals will judge other groups in relation to their own particular ethnic group or culture, especially with concern to language, behaviour, customs, and religion. [HERE](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnocentrism) Seems to be a good definition of a non racist motivation for colonization that has little to do with your biological differences. And just be thorough, I’ll add this one too: Classism > [@](#): > > Classism is any form of prejudice or oppression against people as a result of their actual or perceived social class (especially in the form of lower or higher socioeconomic status). It is similar to social elitism. [HERE](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classism) So yeah, I think you are misusing the terminology here. The fact that colonization was historically a racist system does not imply that colozination in general IS or HAS to be. My terms seem to be a just a _tad_ more applicable, your moral outrage nonwithstanding. Fucktard. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-neocolonialist-fuck-them-hard/402100/189 "2007-05-04T14:19:52Z")
[QUOTE=pantom] **Acid Lamp** , if you’d bothered to actually read the part about what happened to India, you’d realize that it’s all about suppressing native industry. British apologetics aside, the whole colonial enterprise was about routing all trade through London, and sourcing as much as possible from the UK. In the process, native enterprise was going to suffer. The US became the US in part because the small Northern cities, Boston - the center of the revolution in the North - New York, and Philadelphia resented British attempts to suppress their initial stabs at development. The British template worked the same way wherever it went. More or less at the same time as the Indian famines cited above, Ireland went through its own potato famine, for instance. Admitting some tiny number to Oxford doesn’t really make up for having folks dying like flies from hunger. So, to wish for colonialism to take over again to train some useless “core” to run whatever country you’re talking about is just stupid beyond belief. Most countries that went through colonialism had quite enough of such British, or French or Belgian or whatever, “cores” to last them many, many lifetimes. [/QUOTE] Pantom, I’ll not argue with what you posted. I think it’s fair to say that any neo-colonial effort would not resemble the old model very much. I joined the discussion orginally to protest **Mr. Dibble**'s application of the term racist, which I still find to be falsely utilized. I’ll also not argue that the old colonial system was primarily about getting as much out of a country as possible and then dumping it. I will, however, stand by my assertion that a temporary occupation by a stable government for the purposes of country-building wouldn’t be a bad or racist idea. I don’t think that the solution to the african problem is merely throwing out all debts and tossing more money at the wound either. What a lot of these trouble spots need is an extended period of law and order, coupled with and intensive focus on building and economic, educational, and medical base. Given the nature of the in-place systems in these regions, I feel that a foreign body that has a long established and successful history might be able to accomplish this faster, and with better results than supporting an unstable local system. It’s also fair to assume that such a massive and expensive effort on the part of the occupying country might be reciprocated with special trade deals once the new stable country is on it’s feet. Whether or not this idea can be called “neo-colonialism” is up to you. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-neocolonialist-fuck-them-hard/402100/190 "2007-05-04T14:29:12Z")
Let’s calm things down a bit **MrDibble** objected to me saying in GD that colonialism was not as bad as many posters think it was. So he pitted me - on the mistaken idea that I was advocating re-instituting it. He is extremely sensitive about his racial (or I would say cultural) origins, which are interesting. I only know about that stuff by accident, I read a book about the Matabele about 15 years ago and realized that the indigenous inhabitants of South Africa were brown or yellow (not that it matters) and had problems with ‘them up North’. They picked up tricks from the Europeans and within a few years habitual raiding hordes ran into a brick wall - which did save them from literally being eaten. In later years they absorbed Malays and who knows what else, to be honest MrDibble has said a number of times that he feels much in common with the Afrikaaners. I probably am racist - but I get a bit confused, people in the top say 10% of any bell curve are pretty capable of getting on. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-neocolonialist-fuck-them-hard/402100/191 "2007-05-04T14:51:56Z")
[QUOTE=Acid Lamp] Again, Die in a fire. [/QUOTE] **Acid Lamp** , our rules prohibit wishing death on other users. Cool it. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-neocolonialist-fuck-them-hard/402100/192 "2007-05-04T15:07:22Z")
[QUOTE=fluiddruid] **Acid Lamp** , our rules prohibit wishing death on other users. Cool it. [/QUOTE] Sorry, My mouth got away with me. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-neocolonialist-fuck-them-hard/402100/193 "2007-05-04T16:35:19Z")
[QUOTE=Mellivora capensis] But here’s the rub. Africa needs to learn to sort out its own problems. Not meeting your idea of global standards, or feeling sorry for its inhabitants, does not give you the right to colonize that country. [/QUOTE] I shouldn’t lose any sleep worrying about neo colonialism,just because many people believe that the peoples of various colonised countrys were better off before independence doesn’t mean that they are in favour of recolonising the so called “basket case countrys”. Far from it I suspect most westerners would rather cut off their own testicles rather then get lumbered with the responsibility of those countrys . Call me a cynic if you will but Im just a leeetle bit suspicious as to the bona fides of some of the posters who are supposedly of European descent but whos hearts are bleeding so deeply about the evil colonial regimes.l Finally its not only Europeans who have racists among them ,some of the worst racists I know are white and English,or West Indian and black or Asian and brown ,so purleeeeease spare us all the out raged saintly non white ethnic tripe . ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-neocolonialist-fuck-them-hard/402100/194 "2007-05-04T17:10:31Z")
Whats been ignored is the difference between colonizing countries. the belgians were pure resource-extractors-they came to steal, and that was it. the french made many of their colonies into extensions of France-so they did build up an infrastructure. They could be brutal as well, but did put something back. the germans (in their brief colonial history0 were savagely brutal. What about American colonialism? We did pretty good in the Philippines 9built roads, schools, ports)-of course, we did kill quite a number of insurgents. Or the Dutch-great wealth extractors, and horrifyingly brutal as well (in Indonisia). How were the Swedes? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-neocolonialist-fuck-them-hard/402100/195 "2007-05-04T17:49:53Z")
[QUOTE=Acid Lamp] I will, however, stand by my assertion that a temporary occupation by a stable government for the purposes of country-building wouldn’t be a bad or racist idea. I don’t think that the solution to the african problem is merely throwing out all debts and tossing more money at the wound either. What a lot of these trouble spots need is an extended period of law and order, coupled with and intensive focus on building and economic, educational, and medical base. Given the nature of the in-place systems in these regions, I feel that a foreign body that has a long established and successful history might be able to accomplish this faster, and with better results than supporting an unstable local system. It’s also fair to assume that such a massive and expensive effort on the part of the occupying country might be reciprocated with special trade deals once the new stable country is on it’s feet. Whether or not this idea can be called “neo-colonialism” is up to you. [/QUOTE] I have trouble imagining the sort of person who would be ruthless enough to invade and occupy another country without provocation, with all the killing of innocents, brutality and oppression that requires, and then be kindly inclined enough to them that he’d build the place up into a modern industrialized country. I have even **more** difficulty in imagining a country that wouldn’t toss out any “special trade deals” like you suggest the moment they can get away with it, or be anything but the enemy of the occupying country afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-neocolonialist-fuck-them-hard/402100/196 "2007-05-04T18:26:37Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] I have trouble imagining the sort of person who would be ruthless enough to invade and occupy another country without provocation, with all the killing of innocents, brutality and oppression that requires, and then be kindly inclined enough to them that he’d build the place up into a modern industrialized country. I have even **more** difficulty in imagining a country that wouldn’t toss out any “special trade deals” like you suggest the moment they can get away with it, or be anything but the enemy of the occupying country afterwards. [/QUOTE] Of course they wouldn’t. The problem with neo-colonialism is that you are comparing apples and oranges to the system of the past. The world is vastly different place now than it was a hundred years ago. A classic “colonial” effort would fall flat on it’s face, and likely incite a nasty war into the bargain. What I am suggesting is more along the lines of making the occupied country a protectorate of the overseeing one. It all boils down to money. If you as a country make what is basically a hostile take over, you would want to ensure that your new “buisness” would be successful. It takes money to make money. In exchange for building infastructure etc, the parent country would retain certain trade rights etc for a certain period of time. The parent company gets the benefit of the resources of the colonial one and the colonial people get a fair shot at forming a stable country. Is it explotative of the predicament of the colonial country? Hell yes. It still is better than living without basic medical care, food, clean water, etc and wondering when the next drug-addled warlord or local revolutionary group is going murder you in your sleep. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-neocolonialist-fuck-them-hard/402100/197 "2007-05-04T21:43:28Z")
[QUOTE=Acid Lamp] Allright fucktard, I’ll play ball. From the Wiki link [HERE](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism) SO far you have failed to prove, **in any terms whatsoever** that any of the people you were pitting were basing their outlook based on an “Ideology that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another race or races.” [/QUOTE] I proved it to my own satisfaction by their casual application of the notion of neocolonialism only to Africa. You have failed to show how picking on one continent because of the percieved deficiencies, moral, cultural or whatever, of most of its inhabitants, and not picking on similar situations elsewhere, isn’t, at heart, a racist endeavour. [QUOTE=Acid Lamp] The only thing I took issue with you with was your casual application of an inflammatory term that you seem to think means whatever you’d like it to mean. [/QUOTE] I don’t use the term casually, but I do use it intentionally. [QUOTE=Acid Lamp] I further stated that it was a combination of Africa’s climate and the general nature on the native cultures that have combined to make such a bad situation in a post racist system. [/QUOTE] “post racist system”? Are you just pulling them out of your arse now? And I’ve already refuted your argument that there’s something unique about Africa. There’s certainly nothing fucking unique about the climate. If there’s nothing unique, then singling Africa - and it’s always almost the whole fucking continent - out of all the fucked up places in the world, must have a different underlying cause. Plus, and I fail to see how you don’t see this, ethnocentrism is a racist ideology: From your own Wiki cite: > [@](#): > > Ethnocentrism often entails the belief that one’s own race or ethnic group is the most important and/or that some or all aspects of its culture are superior to those of other groups. If that isn’t racist, I don’t know what is. Do us a favour, mate, read your own fucking links before you quote them, yeah? [QUOTE=FRDE] So he pitted me - on the mistaken idea that I was advocating re-instituting it. [/QUOTE] Bicycle still going backwards, eh, **FRDE**? [QUOTE=FRDE] MrDibble has said a number of times that he feels much in common with the Afrikaaners. [/QUOTE] No, I never fucking ever did. And the rest of that post was more of your incoherent stream-of-unconciousness bullshit, I see. Been down the pub? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-neocolonialist-fuck-them-hard/402100/198 "2007-05-04T21:49:39Z")
well, that was a fuck-up. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-neocolonialist-fuck-them-hard/402100/199 "2007-05-04T22:14:17Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] well, that was a fuck-up. [/QUOTE] Wouldn’t have happened if you’d had some white Europeans editing your posts for you. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2007, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-neocolonialist-fuck-them-hard/402100/200 "2007-05-04T22:36:45Z")
[QUOTE=Acid Lamp] What I am suggesting is more along the lines of making the occupied country a protectorate of the overseeing one. It all boils down to money. If you as a country make what is basically a hostile take over, you would want to ensure that your new “buisness” would be successful. It takes money to make money. In exchange for building infastructure etc, the parent country would retain certain trade rights etc for a certain period of time. The parent company gets the benefit of the resources of the colonial one and the colonial people get a fair shot at forming a stable country. Is it explotative of the predicament of the colonial country? Hell yes. It still is better than living without basic medical care, food, clean water, etc and wondering when the next drug-addled warlord or local revolutionary group is going murder you in your sleep. [/QUOTE] But the trouble is that the patron country gets to set the terms of the patron-client relationship. If the parent country can grant themselves certain trade rights for a certain period of time, why can’t they just do so for an indefinate period of time? Of course, there are countries that still today have a patron-client relationship. Greenland to Denmark, various tiny island nations to France, UK, US, and such. But these are voluntary relations, if Guam voted to sever ties with the US they would be free to do so. And the US doesn’t saddle Guam with exploitative economic relations that favor the US, rather the US subsidizes Guam. If other countries that are currently independent wanted to voluntarily become dependencies of another country, perhaps something could be done. But the likelyhood of that happening is slim. If the country is being run ineptly, why would the current kleptocrats want the patron country to stop the gravy train? And if the country is doing pretty well on it’s own, why would it need a patron? Here’s an interesting list: > **[United Nations list of non-self-governing territories](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_list_of_Non-Self-Governing_Territories)** > > Chapter XI of the United Nations Charter defines a non-self-governing territory (NSGT) as a territory "whose people have not yet attained a full measure of self-government". Chapter XI of the UN Charter also includes a "Declaration on Non-Self-Governing Territories" that the interests of the occupants of dependent territories are paramount and requires member states of the United Nations in control of such territories to submit annual information reports concerning the development of those terri... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-neocolonialist-fuck-them-hard/402100.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-neocolonialist-fuck-them-hard/402100.md?page=11)