# Fuck the NRA **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 1, 2015, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-nra/733184 "2015-10-01T23:02:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![canned\_mayhem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/53a042/32.png) [@canned\_mayhem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/canned_mayhem)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-nra/733184/141 "2015-10-03T09:12:20Z")
Banning stuff has a great history of making it go away, just look at prohibition… ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-nra/733184/142 "2015-10-03T10:06:27Z")
> [@canned\_mayhem](#): > > Wow, amazing job insulting my opening statement and then completely ignoring the rest of my post. That’s because there was fuck all of any substance in your thread, just gibbering. Which is because you’re an idiot. For example: “Sweden has us totally beat but look at what’s going on in Somalia”. Just what point do you think you’re making here? That a country in the midst of civil war is more dangerous than the US? I’m always reluctant to second guess stupid people so it’s probably best if you try to explain what you think this shows. You’ll be wrong, obviously, but at least then people could try to explain just what it is you got wrong on this occasion. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-nra/733184/143 "2015-10-03T12:54:40Z")
> [@canned\_mayhem](#): > > … > I’m gonna guess that if Shaqwan is pissed at Jamichael for fucking Laqwanduh, he’s gonna attempt to squash that beef even if guns never existed in the first place… Every once in a while there’s a post from someone who I’ve never noticed before and I’m like who’s this asshole? You sir are that asshole. You don’t even to try to hide your racism. Your white and aging and racist. Your family doesn’t really like you. Your job didn’t turn out the way you hoped. When you go to the city you’re afraid a negro is going to jump out and force you to try to parallel park. You’re ignorance and fear has manifested itself into an evil that is harming our nation. In short, you are the NRA. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-nra/733184/144 "2015-10-03T14:25:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > With the same technology – or considerably less technology – as was available to Gutenberg. Ink requires chemical feedstock, and so does gunpowder. Not sure your point here … ink can be made out of soot … not a substance of any rarity. The three parts of gunpowder; sulfur, charcoal and saltpeter; can probably all be found on your local WalMart shelves. The problem with printing out your own gun is that the barrel wouldn’t last but a few rounds. It gets hot and would melt the plastic. A mass murderer would be wise to just have a steel barrel milled up. It’s not like we’ll be seeing TSA-like security at our public schools, students aren’t as valuable to our society as is airplanes. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-nra/733184/145 "2015-10-03T14:42:13Z")
Somebody has to say this … I guess it has to be me … There are benefits to joining the NRA, for a lousy $25 US per year, you get: 1] A membership card (woot !!!) 2] A subscription to a choice of gun related magazines, including the prestigious _American Rifleman_ 3] A $5,000 Accidental Death and Dismemberment coverage if you fucking shoot yourself … with your gun … dumbass Crap, you’d think they’d throw in a Confederate Battle Flag … ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-nra/733184/146 "2015-10-03T15:12:50Z")
I would be interested to know the actual and factual breakdown of that $5,000 dipshit policy. Like, how many have they paid out, how often do they contest the claim? A quick glance at their website offers “NRA endorsed insurance”. Not from them, as such, but “endorsed”. Again, just a quick glance but nothing there about accident insurance. Cancer insurance, yes. Wondering about the actuarials on something like this. If I were to buy a $5,000 accident policy, what would it cost, what would it cover? Do they usually cover firearms accidents? And if not, why not? [https://www.nraendorsedinsurance.com/](https://www.nraendorsedinsurance.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-nra/733184/147 "2015-10-03T15:16:40Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > I think Crafter Man has said as much. If I recall correctly (and he can correct me if I’m wrong here, he’s obviously aware of this thread) he doesn’t care about the tyranny aspect, he just likes guns and is sees people dying due to weak gun laws as a fair trade. It stuck in my mind as it was such a change from the usual gun rights bullshit you get from the likes of Lumpy and Dumari Abujani or whatever that fool’s handle is. My position is this: I would rather have the murder rate remain exactly what it is than give up my right to freely keep and bear arms. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-nra/733184/148 "2015-10-03T15:17:05Z")
> [@canned\_mayhem](#): > > Banning stuff has a great history of making it go away, just look at prohibition… Prohibition did markedly reduce American alcohol production and consumption, even with all the problems in its implementation and enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-nra/733184/149 "2015-10-03T15:27:07Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > It’s always pretty baffling to me how gun control advocates like to bring up this as an example, since it works so hard against them and exposes their true agenda. I am stealing this rant. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-nra/733184/150 "2015-10-03T15:44:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I would be interested to know the actual and factual breakdown of that $5,000 dipshit policy … Why? Just the fact that such a thing is included in the membership package speaks volumes about the type of person who would join the NRA. Maybe Sears could offer a 50% discount coupon for finger reattachment surgery with every table saw purchase or a free lifeboat paddle when you book a cruise (today only !!!). How about an apartment complex advertising they have gun safes in each unit … ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-nra/733184/151 "2015-10-03T15:47:19Z")
Just curious, really. Not likely that any such revelations will have an adverse effect on my opinion of the NRA. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-nra/733184/152 "2015-10-03T16:19:22Z")
To be sure, no doubt some of their less thoughtful members contact them: _Dear Sirs, I regret to inform you that I accidentally killed myself and would like to claim my $5000. I enclose a certifficate sinned by a real docter._ ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-nra/733184/153 "2015-10-03T16:33:53Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > My position is this: I would rather have the murder rate remain exactly what it is than give up my right to freely keep and bear arms. As would I, for the most part. I suspect we differ, however, in how we define “freely keep and bear.” I am perfectly happy to require myself and my fellow citizens to take safety classes, pass background checks (within very clear constraints), maintain insurance, and even register our firearms. Those are the compromises I am quite comfortable with in order to change the firearm culture in my society in a way that makes everyone safer. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-nra/733184/154 "2015-10-03T18:16:58Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > “machine guns” sound scary to the general public You should listen to yourself. “Machine guns sound scary to the general public.” No fucking shit, Sherlock. That’s because they’re _scary._ They fire out death-dealing hunks of metal in practically a continuous stream. Can’t imagine why anyone would find that _scary._ I swear, it’s as if you guys don’t realize that your fucking ‘hobby’ doesn’t involve _lethal weapons._ Which wouldn’t be a problem, if you hobbyists were the ones who died protecting your rights, rather than random citizens. Hey, maybe _that’s the answer_ - whenever some law-abiding citizen is killed with a gun, have it set up so that a random gun owner gets killed, too. We put your names in a drum, and when a dozen students at a community college get killed by some nut, we spin the drum, pick a dozen names out, and we line 'em up against a wall and pop! goes the weasel. Right now, one of the recurring lines of the gun crowd is, “oh, not _that_ many people die due to guns each year.” Then you shouldn’t mind a solution like this one bit, right? Not _that_ many of you all will be lined up and shot. (I’m sure that argument would go away _fast._) That way, while unfortunately others will still die for your freedoms, you guys will get to share equally in the honor. Y’all should relish the opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-nra/733184/155 "2015-10-03T18:38:02Z")
Wow, I don’t know if you could serve as any better proof to my point. Gun control proponent completely emotionally motivated, looking to stick it to go gun owners rather than make any sort of good-faith effort to discuss public policy. You wonder why the NRA is always fighting against infringements on gun rights - because, in response to my measured, well-reasoned post, this is the response. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-nra/733184/156 "2015-10-03T18:40:14Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Wow, I don’t know if you could serve as any better proof to my point. Gun control proponent completely emotionally motivated, looking to stick it to go gun owners rather than make any sort of good-faith effort to discuss public policy. You wonder why the NRA is always fighting against infringements on gun rights - because, in response to my measured, well-reasoned post, this is the response. Actually, I agree, machine guns are pretty scary. Maybe some anti-gun people do use tactics that are not honest tactics but that does not mean machine guns, in themselves, are not scary. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-nra/733184/157 "2015-10-03T18:45:17Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Wow, I don’t know if you could serve as any better proof to my point. Gun control proponent completely emotionally motivated, looking to stick it to go gun owners rather than make any sort of good-faith effort to discuss public policy. You wonder why the NRA is always fighting against infringements on gun rights - because, in response to my measured, well-reasoned post, this is the response. On the previous page, when you were describing the strict controls for machine guns in the past, I thought you were an anti-gun person. I am a bit confused on your terminology or negative description of gun control. You seem to be admitting or describing a case where a form of gun control worked, very effectively, then go on to condemn gun control. So, I’m confused. What are your ideas on strict gun control? I am not completely against gun ownership but I am in strong favor of gun control measures. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-nra/733184/158 "2015-10-03T18:50:59Z")
I was using “machine guns” in quotes to distinguish between the colloquial and technical definitions. [This](http://browningmgs.com/My%201919/Left.jpg) is a machine gun. [This](http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/1912728/10347277/5b6f854ea759f060901817290196493a.jpg) is not. In fact, in the second picture, that gun isn’t capable of fully automatic fire at all - the lack of middle position on the selector switch indicates that it’s a semi-auto only weapon, like the vast majority of guns. But without a doubt, you could convince the public that the latter is a scary machine gun that requires banning. This sounds like nitpicking, except when we write laws to cover this sort of stuff, the legislators are deliberately blind to these facts and lie about what their law actually accomplishes. You further prove my point: You’re getting emotionally worked up by the idea of a machine gun, rather than acknowledging and realizing that such weapons, even by the broader colloquial definition of “anything that goes bang-bang-bang”, have basically never been used in crime despite tens of millions of man-years of legal ownership in the US. Focusing legislative efforts on robbing people with a perfect non-criminality record of their rights is by any sane definition a misguided use of gun control policy, and yet that’s something we’ve had. And that’s my point. It doesn’t matter that they have a perfect record. It doesn’t matter that, arguably, gun control has worked perfectly in this instance. People can still make appeals to emotion to demand legislation to fix this non-problem because they’re only reacting emotionally to the problem and want to Do Something, not with a serious, good-faith effort to better society. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-nra/733184/159 "2015-10-03T18:58:51Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I was using “machine guns” in quotes to distinguish between the colloquial and technical definitions. [This](http://browningmgs.com/My%201919/Left.jpg) is a machine gun. [This](http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/1912728/10347277/5b6f854ea759f060901817290196493a.jpg) is not. 1- Is the second picture an AK47 (curiosity is why I ask, not a biased question)? 2- How hard is it to convert that weapon to fully automatic? 3- Do you have a cite to demonstrate that fully automatic weapons have not been used in crimes other than on a handful of occasions? I suppose I believe you if you say it (I do), but, seeing a cite would make it a bit easier for me. 4- Are you in agreement with tight gun control laws in general? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-nra/733184/160 "2015-10-03T19:21:12Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > On the previous page, when you were describing the strict controls for machine guns in the past, I thought you were an anti-gun person. I am a bit confused on your terminology or negative description of gun control. You seem to be admitting or describing a case where a form of gun control worked, very effectively, then go on to condemn gun control. > > So, I’m confused. What are your ideas on strict gun control? I am not completely against gun ownership but I am in strong favor of gun control measures. This thread is about how the NRA is an evil organization because it fights infringements of gun rights tooth and nail and won’t come to some reasonable compromise middle position with gun control advocates. My point was to show that the gun control lobby - and this does not include everyone who believes in any sort of gun control, obviously - but the actions of the movement as a whole, is not to discuss improvements to public safety in good faith. It is to ban guns. It will support gun bans for completely arbitrary reasons, even if they serve no real public safety interest, because their goal is restrict gun ownership in any way they can, and they will pass any restriction that they feel they can get support for regardless of the merits. To demonstrate this, I used the example that someone else brought up as a gun control success - legally owned fully automatic weapons. Imagine, for a moment, that you proposed a licensing and registration scheme on a certain type of gun. And then in the next 50 years after you passed this system, none of those guns were ever used in a crime despite millions or tens of millions of man-years of ownership. You would declare that a wild success, right? You’d say “look here, we reached a reasonable middle position on gun control, and it allowed people to own these weapons and yet none of them were ever used in a crime! It’s an amazing success! This is the perfect example of successful gun control”, right? Would you then ban those guns anyway? Even if your policy resulted in a perfect record, and had gone on for decades with countless people owning and using those guns, would you think “yeah, definitely we need to ban those things”? Because that’s what happened. This is a real world example. Because the gun control lobby isn’t about public safety, or effectiveness, or rational analysis of the cost-benefit of particular laws or policies. They saw an opportunity to chip away at gun ownership (“machine guns are scary!” regardless of the actual danger to society or success of the current laws. That is my point. The case of legally owned fully automatic weapons in the US proves that even in the best possible case scenario, the wildest success story of gun control, the guns were still banned anyway. Because that is always the goal and the end point. This is one reason why the NRA seems extremist. It’s constantly asked to compromise with people who are dedicated to destroying what it is tasked with defending. It has to defend against people it knows are not interested in good-faith improvement of public safety and rational public policy, but a lobby that is dedicated to exploiting any sort of hysteria or ignorance to pass laws that have fuck-all to do with public safety, whose goal is only to eliminate the very right the NRA was formed to protect using death by a thousand cuts as a method. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-nra/733184.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-the-nra/733184.md?page=9)