# Fuck this guy (Santa Barbara shooter) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 24, 2014, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-this-guy-santa-barbara-shooter/689182 "2014-05-24T14:36:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-this-guy-santa-barbara-shooter/689182/261 "2014-05-27T03:50:28Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Wait, what? Did I fucking read that right? Did you really just say > So I am breaking the law by letting my child who has a drivers license take the car? Cite cite cite. Ok, change it to unlicensed driver. Doesn’t change my point. > [@](#): > > On the other hand here is my cite > From the California department of justice website: > You may be guilty of a misdemeanor or a felony if you keep a loaded firearm within any premises that are under your custody or control and a child under 18 years of age obtains and uses it, resulting in injury or death, or carries it to a public place, unless you stored the firearm in a locked container or locked the firearm with a locking device to temporarily keep it from functioning. > > So you are saying that if a minor in my house borrows my car I could face a felony? Again cite please. The “criminal storage” statutes provide penalties if you recklessly allow access to a firearm resulting in injury or death. The criminal codes provide penalties if you allow an unlicensed driver to drive your car, and it results in injury or death. > [@](#): > > Oh and about my not knowing how car sales work, I’m a senior manager for one of the largest Mercedes-Benz dealerships in the world. I think I know way more about the automotive business than you ever will. Right. So, when California dealerships offer contracts in all those different languages, it’s just out of the goodness of their heart? It’s not because there’s a regulation requiring them to? No, I don’t believe for a second you know anything about vehicle sales in California. It’s utterly stupid to claim vehicle sales are basically unregulated. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-this-guy-santa-barbara-shooter/689182/262 "2014-05-27T03:55:08Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Well, lookie what I [found](http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs#26): > > So, apparently, California does not require registration for most firearms. But it does require registration for all vehicles. It looks like OHV’s require a registration from the DMV as well, but it’s a one-time thing, and not a yearly one. So, it looks like the vast majority of vehicles have to be registered with the state. > > So, here we a firearm regulation that is more permissive than a car regulation. I found one. What do I get? Seriously, do you people do any basic research? Cool you win the internets.\* Now how about that cite for your claim that it is illegal for a minor to drive a car. \*I could make the argument that the background paperwork, thumb print and serial number of the gun being purchased is in fact a form of registration. But I won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-this-guy-santa-barbara-shooter/689182/263 "2014-05-27T03:59:23Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Cool you win the internets.\* Now how about that cite for your claim that it is illegal for a minor to drive a car. Er… in to the best of my knowledge, every state, minors are not allowed to drive cars without learner’s permits, and even then they’re required to have a licensed adult driver with them who’s legally responsible for whatever happens. I know of plenty of shooting ranges where children are allowed to shoot with their parents and plenty of minors hunt as well. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-this-guy-santa-barbara-shooter/689182/264 "2014-05-27T04:00:08Z")
I mistyped, and I mean to say “unlicensed.” Although, given how the license system works nowadays for people under 18, there are plenty of ways for a minor to be operating a car illegally, even with a permit. ETA: In CA, you do not get a full license nowadays until you turn 18. There’s a bunch of intermediate stages, and I suppose I could look up the differences at each stage, but I don’t think it really changes my point. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-this-guy-santa-barbara-shooter/689182/265 "2014-05-27T04:03:01Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Right. So, when California dealerships offer contracts in all those different languages, it’s just out of the goodness of their heart? It’s not because there’s a regulation requiring them to? > > No, I don’t believe for a second you know anything about vehicle sales in California. It’s utterly stupid to claim vehicle sales are basically unregulated. I can go to Craig’s list right now find a car, go over lay down cash and drive away. Legally. That is unregulated in my book. I can’t do that with a gun. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-this-guy-santa-barbara-shooter/689182/266 "2014-05-27T04:04:54Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Er… in to the best of my knowledge, every state, minors are not allowed to drive cars without learner’s permits, and even then they’re required to have a licensed adult driver with them who’s legally responsible for whatever happens. > > I know of plenty of shooting ranges where children are allowed to shoot with their parents and plenty of minors hunt as well. Both of my children were fully licensed by the State of California while they were minors. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-this-guy-santa-barbara-shooter/689182/267 "2014-05-27T04:08:18Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > I can go to Craig’s list right now find a car, go over lay down cash and drive away. Legally. > That is unregulated in my book. > I can’t do that with a gun. Well, your book is wrong. The regulations governing sales and transfers are in the law books, and you and your seller are required to follow them. If you don’t follow them, the state can come after you. You as the buyer also have recourse in the courts after the fact. It’s a different type of regulation, but it’s not unregulated. Again, you have no clue what you are talking about. The balls you have to go around lecturing people (and this is a serious subject regarding life and death), without any idea of what you are talking about is amazing. And, I’m still waiting for an explanation as to why California dealers offer contracts in all those different languages. And mysteriously, all the dealers offer them in the same set of languages. Hmmm. Maybe they just decided to all have a meeting one day and do it as a lark. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-this-guy-santa-barbara-shooter/689182/268 "2014-05-27T04:15:15Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Both of my children were fully licensed by the State of California while they were minors. And what year was this? ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-this-guy-santa-barbara-shooter/689182/269 "2014-05-27T04:21:55Z")
Ah, here’s the thing about foreign languages: [http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/legal\_guides/k-4.shtml](http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/legal_guides/k-4.shtml) Basically, if you negotiate a contract in one of a list of languages (Spanish, Chinese, Tagalog, Vietnamese, or Korean), you have to provide a translation of the contract. So, if a dealer negotiates the sale in Spanish, he has to provide a Spanish translation. This doesn’t just apply to dealers, but it’s a good example of how car sales are not “unregulated.” ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-this-guy-santa-barbara-shooter/689182/270 "2014-05-27T04:54:48Z")
So…#229? Should we call it? Post #229 seems to be where this thread got totally derailed by yet another stupid gun debate. Or should we call it earlier? I had #110 at the start, so there’s no way I won the pool – unless everyone else guessed it would derail sooner. Who’s number was the closest? ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-this-guy-santa-barbara-shooter/689182/271 "2014-05-27T04:58:28Z")
Ok, I’ll stop if that’s what the consensus is. I don’t really have time tonight, but maybe I’ll split off into another thread tomorrow evening if I get a chance. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-this-guy-santa-barbara-shooter/689182/272 "2014-05-27T05:05:03Z")
Goddamnit, yes. This goddamn gun/knife/car bullshit is derailing this thread and drowning out all other actually relevant-to-the-thread conversation. Ugh! ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-this-guy-santa-barbara-shooter/689182/273 "2014-05-27T05:18:25Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > Goddamnit, yes. This goddamn gun/knife/car bullshit is derailing this thread and drowning out all other actually relevant-to-the-thread conversation. Ugh! It’s not bullshit. If you don’t think it’s relevant to this thread, so be it, but gun issues are not bullshit. But, if someone wants to start another thread, I’ll try to check back tomorrow evening. I’m hesitant to start another thread tonight, since it’s going to be bedtime soon. But I will not respond to the gun regulatory stuff anymore in this thread, since other posters have expressed displeasure. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-this-guy-santa-barbara-shooter/689182/274 "2014-05-27T13:44:02Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > I don’t know . . . Yeah, this guy was an asshole in general, but just a brief glance at the “manifesto” and it seems that in the end, not getting a girl was fundamentally the primary thing fueling his self-entitlement, and that degenerated into hatred toward women more than anything. (The lottery thing was just his plan to get a girl.) He also said that that if he were to get one, he’d call off the killing. > > In the conclusion of his pathetic screed he justified his “retribution” with this summary: He went on to describe how a perfect world would eliminate all women except a few for reproduction. > > That seems pretty misogynistic, if you ask me, and as the explicit justification for his actions, I wouldn’t discount it. A closer look at his “manifesto” reveals his anger was equally aimed at men and women - basically, he considered he was a god, and he was pissed at everyone for not recognizing it. Certainly, his lack of recognition was most evident in not obtaining the sex that was his “due”, but his anger was aimed at the human race in total, not just fueled by a hatred of women in particular. He equally desired to kill other men. Women were to die for refusing him, men for surpassing him - both are insulting to a “god”. From his “manifesto”: > [@](#): > > Every single time I’ve seen a guy walk around with his beautiful girlfriend, I’ve always wanted to kill them both in the most painful way possible. They deserve it. They must be punished. The males deserve to be punished for living a better and more pleasurable life than me, and the females deserve to be punished for giving that pleasurable life to those males instead of me. On the Day of Retribution, I will finally be able to punish them ALL. When I think about the amazing and blissful life I could have lived if only females were sexually attracted to me, my entire being burns with hatred. They denied me a happy life, and in return I will take away all of their lives. It is only fair. I am not part of the human race. Humanity has rejected me. The females of the human species have never wanted to mate with me, so how could I possibly consider myself part of humanity? Humanity has never accepted me among them, and now I know why. I am more than human. I am superior to them all. I am Elliot Rodger… Magnificent, glorious, supreme, eminent… Divine! I am the closest thing there is to a living god. Humanity is a disgusting, depraved, and evil species. It is my purpose to punish them all. I will purify the world of everything that is wrong with it. On the Day of Retribution, I will truly be a powerful god, punishing everyone I deem to be impure and depraved. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-this-guy-santa-barbara-shooter/689182/275 "2014-05-27T14:05:29Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > However, I stand by my point: mass killings of women that lack sexual violence is a new phenomenon. Maybe we need a new term, since mysogyny does include sexually-motivated violence. Maybe “gynocide,” even if Andrea Dworkin used it in her claptrap. Whether “mass killings of women that lack sexual violence” is a new thing or not isn’t relevant. In this case it didn’t happen. This was not a mass killing of women. It was a mass killing of people. People who were, in fact, mostly men. But, as is typical, when a woman is a victim of violence with a larger number of men it’s the women that get the attention, to the extent that killing a group mostly consisting of men is called “gynocide”. > [@even\_sven](#): > > Meh. Plenty of Muslims were killed in 911, but that doesn’t mean they were not the victims of Islamic extremism. Misogyny can cause people to hate men as well. Misogyny is the hatred of women. Only those with the corrupt agenda of wishing to inflate the amount of misogyny in the world would pretend the hatred of men is misogyny. Again, the pretense that these things are about women is an argument for the MRA position. This person clearly regarded other humans as unworthy of consideration, at least as much with men as women, and he committed acts of violence against more men than women. It is the height of self-obsession to ignore the main targets of this man’s hatred and violence so you can make a political point or pretend that your group is the only group whose vicitmhood matters. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-this-guy-santa-barbara-shooter/689182/276 "2014-05-27T14:16:59Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > It’s not bullshit. If you don’t think it’s relevant to this thread, so be it, but gun issues are not bullshit. > > But, if someone wants to start another thread, I’ll try to check back tomorrow evening. I’m hesitant to start another thread tonight, since it’s going to be bedtime soon. But I will not respond to the gun regulatory stuff anymore in this thread, since other posters have expressed displeasure. It’s. Bullshit. In. The. Context. Of. This. Thread. Fuckin’ A, man! ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-this-guy-santa-barbara-shooter/689182/277 "2014-05-27T14:19:26Z")
True, and how soon we forget that Nov. 22, 1963 was only 1/2 POTUS-cide, and 1/2 cop-killing (_and_ sneaking into a movie theater without buying a ticket). ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-this-guy-santa-barbara-shooter/689182/278 "2014-05-27T15:57:15Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > Goddamnit, yes. This goddamn gun/knife/car bullshit is derailing this thread and drowning out all other actually relevant-to-the-thread conversation. Ugh! The title of this thread is **Fuck this guy (Santa Barbara shooter)**. And it’s in the Pit. Is it wrong to assume that any post not related to fucking the shooter (figuratively or physically) is not actually relevant-to-the-thread? You seem to be objecting to the hijacking of the hijacking of the hijacking of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-this-guy-santa-barbara-shooter/689182/279 "2014-05-27T16:17:01Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > Misogyny is the hatred of women. Only those with the corrupt agenda of wishing to inflate the amount of misogyny in the world would pretend the hatred of men is misogyny. > > Again, the pretense that these things are about women is an argument for the MRA position. This person clearly regarded other humans as unworthy of consideration, at least as much with men as women, and he committed acts of violence against more men than women. It is the height of self-obsession to ignore the main targets of this man’s hatred and violence so you can make a political point or pretend that your group is the only group whose vicitmhood matters. You seem to have an eight year old’s understanding of misogyny. This creatures entire worldview, his entire identity, and his primarily way of organizing his thoughts was based on a set of sick and twisted ideas about women. Now, men got caught in this as well, but that’s because he was seeing men through the window of hating women. Or put this way, if he work up tomorrow and said “you know, I guess women don’t owe me sex. I’m actually kind of cool with them,” his thing against men would fall apart. Men were victims of this, and that’s not surprising, because men often get harmed by this whole system of understanding the world through gender. We aren’t in some kind of zero sums battle of the sexes here. Both men and women will benefit when sexism stops being such a major force. Maybe absent misogyny, he would have just gone crazy in a different way. But maybe, he would have also gone “Holy shit these are some wack thoughts. Maybe I need help” rather than “Awesome! There are boards and subreddits and mailing lists for people just like me!” ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-this-guy-santa-barbara-shooter/689182/280 "2014-05-27T16:23:31Z")
How are we even debating whether the guy was a misogynist? Yeah, he killed men, but so what? It’s as absurd as arguing he wasn’t racist because he was half Asian and the housemates he killed were Asian. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-this-guy-santa-barbara-shooter/689182.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-this-guy-santa-barbara-shooter/689182.md?page=15)