# Fuck yeah! (Cheney on gay marriages) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 25, 2004, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-yeah-cheney-on-gay-marriages/261458 "2004-08-25T16:19:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![furlibusea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@furlibusea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furlibusea)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-yeah-cheney-on-gay-marriages/261458/21 "2004-08-25T22:44:33Z")
Either that or there is a rats and sinking ships thing going on. ---
**Author:** ![nonpolar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3da27b/32.png) [@nonpolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nonpolar)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-yeah-cheney-on-gay-marriages/261458/22 "2004-08-25T22:58:00Z")
Maybe Cheney is a gay ? ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-yeah-cheney-on-gay-marriages/261458/23 "2004-08-25T23:05:45Z")
Funny, I thought Cheney played ‘bad cop’ while George played ‘good cop’. I guess they decided to trade places on this one. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-yeah-cheney-on-gay-marriages/261458/24 "2004-08-25T23:20:41Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > Certainly this administration has been responsible for a lot of stupid asshatery over the last few years, and Cheney is no exception, but finally, thank god, a member of it has decided to make public comments against the administration’s goals of denying full civil rights to gay relationships. Yea, verily, praise him for being non-committal and supporting the administration regardless of his personal views! I’ll grant that his personal comments about “freedom for everyone” are valid and to be respected. But saying is one thing and doing is another. For some reason, I’m reminded of a quote “You know, doing what is right is easy. The problem is knowing what’s right.” I wonder who said that. And I wonder how it applies to a case where the vice president of the United States _knows_ what is the right thing to do, but refuses to do anything against the actions of an administration _of which he is second in command_, and refuses to speak up except when it’s politically advantageous. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-yeah-cheney-on-gay-marriages/261458/25 "2004-08-25T23:22:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **VP Dick Cheney** > freedom means freedom for everyone…into any kind of relationship they want to So that means people into beastiality, necrophilia, and pederasty should expect the same? Note, I’m **for** gay marriages, it’s just that Cheney’s comment could be read that way. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-yeah-cheney-on-gay-marriages/261458/26 "2004-08-25T23:27:54Z")
Are you people joking? Is this a giant woosh? Dick the hatchet man Cheney is getting respect in your eyes for this nakedly cynical and 100% calculated flip-flop? Are you _insane_? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-yeah-cheney-on-gay-marriages/261458/27 "2004-08-25T23:49:18Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Are you people joking? Is this a giant woosh? > > Dick the hatchet man Cheney is getting respect in your eyes for this nakedly cynical and 100% calculated flip-flop? > > Are you _insane_? What flip-flop? This is precisely what he said back in '00. The guy has to support the prez even though he doesn’t personally agree with that policy. BFD. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-yeah-cheney-on-gay-marriages/261458/28 "2004-08-26T00:21:08Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Funny, > I thought Cheney played ‘bad cop’ while George played ‘good cop’. > I guess they decided to trade places on this one. You misunderstand. To Bush’s core, the extreme right, this _is_ bad cop… ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-yeah-cheney-on-gay-marriages/261458/29 "2004-08-26T00:31:41Z")
Good for him but this Libertarian is still going to hold his nose and vote for Kerry. BTW, I was listening to Air America on the radio and Janine Garofalo actually claimed credit for the announcement because of statements that she made earlier in the week. I had high hopes for them but her and Franken are every bit as bad as Rush and Hannity. Haj ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-yeah-cheney-on-gay-marriages/261458/30 "2004-08-26T05:57:40Z")
I cannot quite figure out exactly what it is that you people expect Cheney to do. What real powers does the VP have compared to the president when Bush isn’t choking on pretzls or falling down things? He has influence, and that’s about it. So he spoke his mind on the campaign trail, and hopefully, just hopefully, some formerly anti-gay marriage people will at least consider or entertain the possibility that gay marriages might not be the evil downfall of civilization and marriage they are cracked up to be. Again, does the VP have veto power? No. Does he vote in congress? No. Well, I guess you could say president _pro tem_ of the senate, but I feel that is stretching things a bit. Cynical ploy for votes? How? It has been just as strongly condemned by “family values” groups as lauded by pro SSM groups. It certainly won’t change my vote away from Kerry-Edwards for Bush-Cheney because Bush is obviously heart-set upon ammendments and policies against gay-marriage. Cheney made no promises of the sort to pander to Log-Cabin Republicans. All he did is sincerely express his opinion. > [@Otto](#): > > I’m not sure why you felt a second thread on the exact same topic was warranted but I’ll say the same thing here as I did there. I was actually suprised when I came home last night that I couldn’t find anything on Cheney’s statement, and when I woke up this morning, I couldn’t find anything either because the other thread doesn’t specifically mention Cheney. I supposed that I could have searched for one, but that was an oversight on my part. I just wanted to post. Am I forgiven? > [@SolGrundy](#): > > For some reason, I’m reminded of a quote “You know, doing what is right is easy. The problem is knowing what’s right.” I wonder who said that. And I wonder how it applies to a case where the vice president of the United States knows what is the right thing to do, but refuses to do anything against the actions of an administration of which he is second in command, and refuses to speak up except when it’s politically advantageous. Don’t take too much from my sig; I just thought it was a good quote. The LBJ poster in my room is far less than 6x8 feet. For the record, LBJ wasn’t always a VP, ya’ know (some dude got stabbed or somethin’) and at any rate the quote doesn’t really refer to inaction in the face of clear moral decisions. In fact, it is quite the opposite, it refers to how easy it is to take actions you believe to be moral and correct, but how often we err in coming to that determination. Am I misinterpreting my own sig here? If I am, you can be damn sure I’ll want to know about it. Hence, I don’t think that Republicans are evil, nor that every word they utter is a part of some evil Machavelian scheme, I just find fault with the decisions they sometimes reach. Like invading Iraq. No doubt Bush honestly thought it was a jolly brilliant idea. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-yeah-cheney-on-gay-marriages/261458/31 "2004-08-26T06:15:02Z")
Will this cost Bush any votes? (fingers crossed) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-yeah-cheney-on-gay-marriages/261458/32 "2004-08-26T06:16:01Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > Hence, I don’t think that Republicans are evil, nor that every word they utter is a part of some evil Machavelian scheme. I don’t think that of Republicans, either. Dick Cheney, on the other hand… Bottom line is, all this means is that Dick Cheney turned out to be not quite as biggoted as we had thought. This is still entirely distinct from not being a bigot at all. When Dick Cheney speaks out in favor of gay marriage, _then_ I’ll be impressed. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-yeah-cheney-on-gay-marriages/261458/33 "2004-08-26T06:16:27Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Good for him but this Libertarian is still going to hold his nose and vote for Kerry. > > BTW, I was listening to Air America on the radio and Janine Garofalo actually claimed credit for the announcement because of statements that she made earlier in the week. I had high hopes for them but her and Franken are every bit as bad as Rush and Hannity. > > Haj Can I have some of what you’re smoking because it _must_ be good. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-yeah-cheney-on-gay-marriages/261458/34 "2004-08-26T06:33:46Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > What flip-flop? [This flip-flop](http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2004/03/04/news/wyoming/ec336ec8b40d763887256e4b0058fa4f.txt): > [@](#): > > Vice President Dick Cheney said Tuesday (March 2, 2004) he supports President Bush’s call for a federal constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriages, even though one of his daughters is gay and he has said in the past the issue should be left to the states. > > “The president’s taken the clear position that he supports a constitutional amendment,” Cheney said in an interview with MSNBC. “I support him.” > > Cheney said during the 2000 campaign, and again last month, that he prefers to see states handle the issue of gay marriage. His openly lesbian daughter, Mary Cheney, is an aide in the Bush-Cheney re-election campaign, but the vice president declined to discuss her. > [@John Mace](#): > > This is precisely what he said back in '00. But it’s not what he said earlier this year. Hence, **flip-flop**. > [@John Mace](#): > > The guy has to support the prez even though he doesn’t personally agree with that policy. BFD. Huh. I thought that people, even within the same administration, even the president and the vice-president, were allowed to disagree. If Cheney really supported a constitutional amendment, then he’s flip-flopped. If he didn’t support the amendment personally but mouthed his support publicly for political gain, then he’s a lying hypocritical shit. He sure as hell while Bush was pushing the amendment either remained silent or made a simple statement of disagreement, but he was obviously afraid of losing whatever political advantage to the Republicans that he thought supporting the amendment would bring. And yes, calling for the passage of a constitutional amendment which would forever strip a significant percentage of the American people from ever exercising the right to marry and enjoying the rights, privileges and responsibilities marriage entails is a _big fucking deal_. The vice-president’s being a two-faced lying bastard who’ll sacrifice his daughter in the pursuit of votes is a big fucking deal. If you think it’s not and you’re falling for this compassionate conservative shit again, then you’re a contempible fool. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-yeah-cheney-on-gay-marriages/261458/35 "2004-08-26T06:55:29Z")
Oh for crying out loud… “I support him” is not the same as “I agree with him.” It’s a weasely way for a politician to deal with a politically volitle issue. What do you want Cheney to do, go out and campaign against Bush? Be real. I suppose you’re just as incensed that Kerry, during his campaign, said Edwards was not qualified to be president and yet chose him as his VP. Is Kerry 100% sure he’ll not be incapacitated during his term in office? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-yeah-cheney-on-gay-marriages/261458/36 "2004-08-26T14:30:56Z")
> [@Mockingbird](#): > > Can I have some of what you’re smoking because it _must_ be good. > > :rolleyes: What the fuck are you talking about, kid? A little substance please. Where do you disagree with me? Haj ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-yeah-cheney-on-gay-marriages/261458/37 "2004-08-26T20:43:56Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > “I support him” is not the same as “I agree with him.” It’s a weasely way for a politician to deal with a politically volitle issue. What do you want Cheney to do, go out and campaign against Bush? Be real. What I expect, and yes I know it’s a fantasy, is that if Cheney truly believes that there should be no constitutional amendment, that he either remain silent on the issue or he be man enough to say that he disagrees. What the fuck is with you Bushies? You have no sense of a middle course. Cheney’s choices were not limited to “support the amendment” and “go out and campaign against Bush.” And hey, if Cheney was being a weasel, then call him on being a weasel. Or is being a weasel OK in your book? > [@John Mace](#): > > I suppose you’re just as incensed that Kerry, during his campaign, said Edwards was not qualified to be president and yet chose him as his VP. Is Kerry 100% sure he’ll not be incapacitated during his term in office? And it’s the typical lame-ass counter-punch, the guy you like does something disgusting so rather than deal with it you dredge up a completely unrelated example. Your horseshit example is invalid unless Kerry changes his mind and dumps Edwards from the ticket. See, what Cheney did was take Position A (leave it to the states) then flip-flop to Position B (amendment) and now has flip-flopped back to position A again. But rather than just admit this is what has happened, you desperately split hairs between “support the amendment” and “support the President who supports the amendment” as if that had some meaningful distinction and finger-point at someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-yeah-cheney-on-gay-marriages/261458/38 "2004-08-26T20:57:40Z")
It was okay in your book when Clinton was a weasel wasn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-yeah-cheney-on-gay-marriages/261458/39 "2004-08-26T21:00:06Z")
Hmmm. I don’t think you two are communicating, **Otto** , and it’s not **John** ’s being obtuse. If you happen to think that tobacco is the Greatest Evil Besetting Man, you don’t take a job with Philip Morris. And if you do disagree with corporate policy, you have the privilege of saying that privately to close friends, but should not make a public statement that slams who you work for. Dick Cheney signed on as candidate for VP, was duly elected, and has worked to make the Bush policies work. (Not that I’m overly fond of him or of them, but to give the devil his due, let’s note that he has done what was expected of him as VP.) In the case of the gay rights/gay marriage controversy, this has placed him in a very untenable situation – with a Lesbian daughter and #2 man to a President courting the Religious Right on the subject. I’d be very surprised that Cheney said what he said without discussing it with Bush and Rove first – but I would not be at all surprised to find that he got the go-ahead to say how he really feels, and drop his support for the amendment (which must have really caused tense family relations). From the POV of the campaign, this marks an effort to reach out to moderates – and it just may be that Rove, who is no dummy, is realizing that support for Bush/Cheney among those other than hard-line Republicans, who would vote for the Geico gecko and the Aflac duck if they were the Republican candidates, and the religious right, is evaporating faster than dry ice in a blast furnace. This may be the start of a “kinder, gentler” Bush public image targeted to reach out to moderates. And I still maintain that it’s Cheney saying actually how he feels, as opposed to having to toe the party line out of loyalty to Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-yeah-cheney-on-gay-marriages/261458/40 "2004-08-26T22:02:14Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > “I support him” is not the same as “I agree with him.” I see the letters in the two phrases are different, and in English that usually means there are differences in meaning, but when the rubber hits the road I’d have to call this a distinction without a difference. Enjoy, Steven [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-yeah-cheney-on-gay-marriages/261458.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-yeah-cheney-on-gay-marriages/261458.md?page=3)