# Fuck you, Alec & Mike Sou (and a lot of other Hawaiians, too) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 5, 2010, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-alec-mike-sou-and-a-lot-of-other-hawaiians-too/552646 "2010-09-05T01:10:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-alec-mike-sou-and-a-lot-of-other-hawaiians-too/552646/1 "2010-09-05T01:10:24Z")
[ > [@](#): > > The brothers were convicted of shipping 44 laborers from Thailand and forcing them to work on their farm, part of a pipeline to the United States that allegedly cornered foreign field hands into low-paying jobs with few rights. ]([http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US\_HUMAN\_TRAFFICKING\_HAWAII?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-09-04-17-39-13](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_HUMAN_TRAFFICKING_HAWAII?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-09-04-17-39-13)) The brothers both pled guilty, so there’s no question that they did this. But look at the bullshit being spewed on their behalf: > [@](#): > > “The incarceration of Alec and Mike Sou would threaten our food security and could endanger our future sustainability on Oahu,” wrote Kioni Dudley, president of the community group Friends of Makakilo, in a letter asking U.S. District Judge Susan Oki Mollway for leniency. “Find some method of punishment which allows them to stay in their positions at Aloun Farms.” Yeah, that’s right. People are putting forth the argument that these guys should basically be convicted but not punished because _they are too big to allow to fail_. I knew it was a bad precedent with TARP, and here it comes around to try and bite us in the ass AGAIN. I just hope the judge isn’t swayed by such nonsense and throws the fuckers in jail. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-alec-mike-sou-and-a-lot-of-other-hawaiians-too/552646/2 "2010-09-05T01:12:13Z")
HAHA Reported! I thought I was in the Pit. :rolleyes: 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-alec-mike-sou-and-a-lot-of-other-hawaiians-too/552646/3 "2010-09-05T05:19:27Z")
Woot! Now it’s in the Pit! Fuck you, modern-day slavers! ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-alec-mike-sou-and-a-lot-of-other-hawaiians-too/552646/4 "2010-09-05T09:02:42Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [ > > > [@](#): > > > > The brothers were convicted of shipping 44 laborers from Thailand and forcing them to work on their farm, part of a pipeline to the United States that allegedly cornered foreign field hands into low-paying jobs with few rights. > > ]([http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US\_HUMAN\_TRAFFICKING\_HAWAII?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-09-04-17-39-13](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_HUMAN_TRAFFICKING_HAWAII?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-09-04-17-39-13)) > > The brothers both pled guilty, so there’s no question that they did this. But look at the bullshit being spewed on their behalf: > > > [@](#): > > > > “The incarceration of Alec and Mike Sou would threaten our food security and could endanger our future sustainability on Oahu,” wrote Kioni Dudley, president of the community group Friends of Makakilo, in a letter asking U.S. District Judge Susan Oki Mollway for leniency. “Find some method of punishment which allows them to stay in their positions at Aloun Farms.” > > Yeah, that’s right. People are putting forth the argument that these guys should basically be convicted but not punished because _they are too big to allow to fail_. > > I knew it was a bad precedent with TARP, and here it comes around to try and bite us in the ass AGAIN. > > I just hope the judge isn’t swayed by such nonsense and throws the fuckers in jail. It’s easy to make judgements sitting at your computer, but if your family eats or starves, or is tossed into the street based on the farm, or other industry that employs you, being in operation I’d cut the workers some slack on this issue. Even if the employers are scum no one wants their family to go hungry of be homeless. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-alec-mike-sou-and-a-lot-of-other-hawaiians-too/552646/5 "2010-09-05T11:30:03Z")
Business employs illegal labor, exploits them. General public says, “But if we don’t exploit them, how are we to eat so cheaply!?” Exploitation is thus allowed to persist. If it’s happening across the mainland US, I don’t see any reason for it to not happen in Hawaii as well. Of course, the alternative is to not exploit them, at which point there’s no point importing them to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-alec-mike-sou-and-a-lot-of-other-hawaiians-too/552646/6 "2010-09-05T12:07:18Z")
> [@astro](#): > > It’s easy to make judgements sitting at your computer, but if your family eats or starves, or is tossed into the street based on the farm, or other industry that employs you, being in operation I’d cut the workers some slack on this issue. Even if the employers are scum no one wants their family to go hungry of be homeless. And if the owners had fines out the wazoo, these people would probably be writing to say “No, you can’t penalize them so harshly, or our economy will suffer!” :rolleyes: I wonder what they’d write if their family members were the ones held captive and forced to work? I’m sorry their economy apparently depends on a company run by modern slave-holders, but that has to be punished somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-alec-mike-sou-and-a-lot-of-other-hawaiians-too/552646/7 "2010-09-05T12:26:02Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Business employs illegal labor, exploits them. The workers appear to have been legal, under the agricultural guest worker program. That said, the Sous have admitted to crimes in their treatment of the workers and should certainly get jail time. They’ll just have to find someone else to run their farm while they’re incarcerated. Perhaps they could import a farm manager. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-alec-mike-sou-and-a-lot-of-other-hawaiians-too/552646/8 "2010-09-05T14:11:52Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > > > Business employs illegal labor, exploits them. > > The workers appear to have been legal, under the agricultural guest worker program. That said, the Sous have admitted to crimes in their treatment of the workers and should certainly get jail time. They’ll just have to find someone else to run their farm while they’re incarcerated. Perhaps they could import a farm manager. Just because they’re legal, doesn’t mean they’re not exploited. [The law can be modified to make exploitation legal.](http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/05/immigration-law-indentured-servitude) On a larger scale, this relatively minor incident points to the perverse logic at work in situations of extreme inequality: the people at the top are allowed to continue their wicked ways because their very power grab puts all of society in danger. No different from Louis XIV declaring, “I am the state.” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-alec-mike-sou-and-a-lot-of-other-hawaiians-too/552646/9 "2010-09-05T16:27:24Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > > > Business employs illegal labor, exploits them. > > The workers appear to have been legal, under the agricultural guest worker program. That said, the Sous have admitted to crimes in their treatment of the workers and should certainly get jail time. They’ll just have to find someone else to run their farm while they’re incarcerated. Perhaps they could import a farm manager. Exactly. There’s absolutely no reason that the farms’ operations can’t be taken over by a caretaker manager for the duration of their incarcerations. It’s not like part of the punishment is that they lose ownership of the farm. Sp, in effect, what is actually happening, is the Sou brothers, with the aid of their cronies, are attempting to extort the Justice system: either let us walk or we will do what we can to make sure you do not have enough food. Fuck that and fuck them. Put them in jail. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-alec-mike-sou-and-a-lot-of-other-hawaiians-too/552646/10 "2010-09-05T16:37:02Z")
> [@astro](#): > > It’s easy to make judgements sitting at your computer, but if your family eats or starves, or is tossed into the street based on the farm, or other industry that employs you, being in operation I’d cut the workers some slack on this issue. Even if the employers are scum no one wants their family to go hungry of be homeless. I guess we should also allow the leaders of drug gangs and organized crime syndicates to go free too? I mean, their families and employees rely on them to keep a roof over their heads and put food on the table. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-alec-mike-sou-and-a-lot-of-other-hawaiians-too/552646/11 "2010-09-05T16:42:03Z")
Shoot 'em. See how fucking “essential” they are then. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-alec-mike-sou-and-a-lot-of-other-hawaiians-too/552646/12 "2010-09-05T16:58:10Z")
No one is too big to fail, no one is too essential to their operation to go to jail. If the business can’t hold together without them, then perhaps it is time for the business to learn that lesson and develop contingency plans like every other corporation on the face of the Earth. And I’d like to point out that some people wear blood diamonds…these people eat blood food. Food purchased and grown over the blood of others. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-alec-mike-sou-and-a-lot-of-other-hawaiians-too/552646/13 "2010-09-05T17:30:25Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > No one is too big to fail, no one is too essential to their operation to go to jail. If the business can’t hold together without them, then perhaps it is time for the business to learn that lesson and develop contingency plans like every other corporation on the face of the Earth. Not only that, but if the business can’t succeed without exploiting people in violation of laws and human rights treaties, then the business deserves to go under. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-alec-mike-sou-and-a-lot-of-other-hawaiians-too/552646/14 "2010-09-05T18:32:26Z")
They are the second biggest grower on the island. I wonder if the biggest grower thinks these boys are too big to fail? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-alec-mike-sou-and-a-lot-of-other-hawaiians-too/552646/15 "2010-09-05T18:39:44Z")
> [@sleeping](#): > > No different from Louis XIV declaring, “I am the state.” Which he didn’t ;). [hijack]Nor was he a petty tyrant - all his life he considered himself a servant of France, its State and its people, not the other way 'round. All the excess and Sun King-ness, and the intrigues of Versailles and the outrageous fashion and fiestas were ways to keep the nobles occupied and squabbling among themselves so their petty bullshit wouldn’t set the country aflame nor get in the way of what was, in his mind at least, best for the country. Which often coincided with what actually was best for the country, too. Not to say he wasn’t an abject social parasite with an ego that came with its own gravity field of course, but as abject social parasites go he really wasn’t that bad :)[/hijack] Anyway, fuck the Sous. They’re basically using a modern version of the old “we can’t free the slaves, it would tear the very fabric of our traditional slave owner’s way of life ! Chaos, gnashing of teeth, cats and dogs playing jazz music !” ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-alec-mike-sou-and-a-lot-of-other-hawaiians-too/552646/16 "2010-09-06T14:34:25Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Shoot 'em. See how fucking “essential” they are then. I feel the same way about folks who claim that they are so important to the economy, they shouldn’t get taxed. > [@Chimera](#): > > No one is too big to fail, no one is too essential to their operation to go to jail. If the business can’t hold together without them, then perhaps it is time for the business to learn that lesson and develop contingency plans like every other corporation on the face of the Earth. > > And I’d like to point out that some people wear blood diamonds…these people eat blood food. Food purchased and grown over the blood of others. The people aren’t essential, the institutions can be. The blood diamond analogy is a bit much don’t you think? Noone is getting their arms chopped off or shoving guns into the hands of 10 year olds. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-alec-mike-sou-and-a-lot-of-other-hawaiians-too/552646/17 "2010-09-07T10:32:55Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The blood diamond analogy is a bit much don’t you think? Noone is getting their arms chopped off or shoving guns into the hands of 10 year olds. If you combine the two and shove guns into the severed hands of 10 year-olds… ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-alec-mike-sou-and-a-lot-of-other-hawaiians-too/552646/18 "2010-09-07T23:17:36Z")
Can’t the government simply take over the farm and run it themselves, or auction it off to someone who will? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-alec-mike-sou-and-a-lot-of-other-hawaiians-too/552646/19 "2010-09-08T01:17:00Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Can’t the government simply take over the farm and run it themselves, or auction it off to someone who will? I see no indication that forfeiture of property is an option for the judge in this case, nor do I think that it should be. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-alec-mike-sou-and-a-lot-of-other-hawaiians-too/552646/20 "2010-09-09T20:12:31Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I see no indication that forfeiture of property is an option for the judge in this case, nor do I think that it should be. Why not? Running a slavery ring should get your stuff confiscated pretty quick. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-alec-mike-sou-and-a-lot-of-other-hawaiians-too/552646.md?page=2)