# Fuck You Canadian \[L\]iberals! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 22, 2002, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-canadian-l-iberals/138125 "2002-11-22T10:22:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bernse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@bernse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bernse)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-canadian-l-iberals/138125/41 "2002-11-22T20:35:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Ummm just who are we supposed to have an army to be defended from? The Soviet Menace is gone, and While The actions in Afghanistan may have slowed terrorist acts to random dribbles it by no means stopped them nor will any miliatry action in my opinion You answered your own question with this: > [@](#): > > On this I can agree to. We know we need to upgrade and rejuvinate or military to maintain a state of readiness and live up to previous commitments What was the purpose of this: > [@](#): > > But thanks for the tap on the shoulder now go away. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-canadian-l-iberals/138125/42 "2002-11-22T20:41:27Z")
So it’s okay for other people to carry your share of the burden for you as well as their own, but they damn well better not complain about it? Just trying to understand, ya know. ---
**Author:** ![bernse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@bernse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bernse)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-canadian-l-iberals/138125/43 "2002-11-22T20:42:46Z")
Damn. I hit submit before I finished my post… oh well. > [@](#): > > On this I can agree to. We know we need to upgrade and rejuvinate or military to maintain a state of readiness and live up to previous commitments For most Western nations, that is what “defense” is nowadays. Its not necessarily defending your borders from the Nazi machine, its going abroad to defend your _interests_ and allies. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-canadian-l-iberals/138125/44 "2002-11-22T20:54:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*:tap on shoulder: If Canada is going to expect the US and its own taxpayers to provide its defense instead, then yes, it’s the USA’s business. \*\* Wow, you’re right! Good thing you guys defended us against all those invasions by… uhh… hold on a minute… The last battle fought on Canadian soil was in 1814. Know who it was against? Yep. The US. So save the bullshit, okay? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-canadian-l-iberals/138125/45 "2002-11-22T21:05:07Z")
Umberto Eco weighs in on the moron debate: > [@](#): > > “The whole history of logic consists of attempts to define an acceptable notion of moronism. A task too immense. Every great thinker is some else’s moron.” “Thought as the coherent expression of moronism.” “But what is moronism to one is incoherence to another.” “Profound. It’s two o’clock, Pilade’s is about to close, and we still haven’t got to the lunatics.” “I’m getting there. A lunatic is easily recognized. He is a moron who doesn’t know the ropes. A moron proves his thesis; he has a logic, however twisted it may be. The lunatic, on the other hand, doesn’t concern himself with logic; he works by short circuits. For him, everything proves everything else. The lunatic is all idée fixe, and whatever he comes across confirms his lunacy. You can tell him by the liberties he takes with common sense, by his flashes of inspiration, and by the fact that sooner or later he brings up the Templars.” > > _–Foucault’s Pendulum_ So I guess it just remains to be seen whether or not Eidolon thinks the Liberals are shilling for the Templars. 😉 That being said, the Liberal government really gets me down. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-canadian-l-iberals/138125/46 "2002-11-22T21:09:36Z")
LaurAnge, assuming the US isn’t at risk of being invaded by Canada or Mexico, then the US doesn’t need a military capability either, per your “reasoning”. Gawdamighty, is the state of civics education in Canuckistan really that bad? ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-canadian-l-iberals/138125/47 "2002-11-22T21:14:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bernse \* > \*\*Damn. I hit submit before I finished my post… oh well. > For most Western nations, that is what “defense” is nowadays. Its not necessarily defending your borders from the Nazi machine, its going abroad to defend your _interests_ and allies. \*\* Ok hold up, Which Western Nations aside from the United States, and Great Britain are capable of going off to defend their interests in foreign countries on their own? True Canada has been in Coallitions (the Gulf War and the Nato Action in Kosovo) But our military was not that much larger than it is at present (We had bombs then though). What I objected to was the idea that some how the United States is covering some kind of Military gap we have created and that it is costing them something more than they wouldn’t already commit. What is it that you expect Canada to do at present? What kind of Commitment is required and to what extent do you think it will eleviate US Forces aside from being live non American targets? Once again the major piss off factor is that the US believes that they can try to dictate our policy on spending. Lord knows they’d tell us to Fuck ourselves if we told them how they should use their budgets. ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-canadian-l-iberals/138125/48 "2002-11-22T21:21:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*LaurAnge, assuming the US isn’t at risk of being invaded by Canada or Mexico, then the US doesn’t need a military capability either, per your “reasoning”. > > Gawdamighty, is the state of civics education in Canuckistan really that bad? \*\* That is a little disingenius. No where did she say “We don’t need a Military” It is a matter of degree. We will never have a US Sized military, budget to create one, nor do we need one that size. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-canadian-l-iberals/138125/49 "2002-11-22T21:44:44Z")
Also, I think it’s dumb for you to say that Canada is depending on the US taxpayers. It’s untrue. Also, “Canuckistan”? Way to side yourself with Buchanan there. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-canadian-l-iberals/138125/50 "2002-11-22T21:46:25Z")
Who is saying Canada’s military has to be the same size as the US’s? It does have to be big enough to allow Canada to carry its fair share of the load, though. “Lord knows they’d tell us to Fuck ourselves if we told them how they should use their budgets.” I offer you [this](http://www.canadianaconnection.com/cca/canuckquotes.htm#Mulroney): Prime Minister Brian Mulroney , 1984 “If I were President of the United States, I’d wake up in the morning and probably look at the events around the world - Americans under attack here, acts of terrorism and violence - I’d look at all that and I’d look up at Canada and say, “Thank God I have Canada for a neighbour. Now what can I do for Canada today?” Oh yeah, you got rid of him yourselves. Good job. ---
**Author:** ![bernse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@bernse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bernse)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-canadian-l-iberals/138125/51 "2002-11-22T22:59:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Ok hold up, Which Western Nations aside from the United States, and Great Britain are capable of going off to defend their interests in foreign countries on their own? Well, I’d say possibly France, but thats besides the point. That’s why we have alliances and go as a team. For peacekeeping missions (something Canada used to be very good at) our individual forces alone used to be a very large component of that. We have a very difficult time doing that now. > [@](#): > > What I objected to was the idea that some how the United States is covering some kind of Military gap we have created and that it is costing them something more than they wouldn’t already commit. Hypothetically, lets say Saddam thumbs his nose at the inspectors and the shit hits the fan. The UN authorizes force and Iraq is invaded. Canada, quite literally, can offer very little. So, indeed, someone has to make up for what we can’t do. So yes, someone is making up for a gap we created. More likely than not, the US. Canada wants to be a world player. We aren’t acting like it though. Our troops were pulled in Afghanistan because we quite simply had nobody qualified to relieve them. IMHO, thats sad. ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-canadian-l-iberals/138125/52 "2002-11-22T23:03:39Z")
It seems to me that the things we Canadians can agree on where this thread is concerned are as follows: 1. Canada’s military is in bad shape and needs to be upgraded. 2. We should be doing so for our own reasons, not because Dubya has been bitching about it. 3. A Canadian political rep should know better than to call another national leader a moron, whether it’s an accurate assessment or not. It makes you sound like part of the Alliance’s special pinhead department. 4. Jean Chrétien is a big doodie-head and should retire immediately to save us any further embarassment. Have I missed anything? ---
**Author:** ![BadDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BadDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BadDog)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-canadian-l-iberals/138125/53 "2002-11-23T11:21:22Z")
I read that one of the reasons that GWB suggested a possible increase in spending was that Canada does not posses the heavy lift capability necessary to move a meaningful amount of troops in a reasonable time. To this day the U.S. is the provider of Canada’s heavy lift capability and does so at out cost. This is in effect a indirect subsidy by the US taxpayers of the Canadian military. ---
**Author:** ![Eidolon909](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce7236/32.png) [@Eidolon909](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eidolon909)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-canadian-l-iberals/138125/54 "2002-11-23T12:05:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dread Pirate Jimbo \* > \*\*It seems to me that the things we Canadians can agree on where this thread is concerned are as follows: > > 1. Canada’s military is in bad shape and needs to be upgraded. > 2. We should be doing so for our own reasons, not because Dubya has been bitching about it. > 3. A Canadian political rep should know better than to call another national leader a moron, whether it’s an accurate assessment or not. It makes you sound like part of the Alliance’s special pinhead department. > 4. Jean Chr?ien is a big doodie-head and should retire immediately to save us any further embarassment. > Have I missed anything? \*\* No. Thank you for the succint summary, that was entirely my point. Unfortunately half the mouth-breaking mongoloids reading this thread couldn’t grasp that simple fact and instead chose to insert their quirky little platitudes. I’m an Asshat… ooh… remind me why I care? ---
**Author:** ![Eidolon909](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce7236/32.png) [@Eidolon909](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eidolon909)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-canadian-l-iberals/138125/55 "2002-11-23T12:15:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by alice\_in\_wonderland \* > > \*\*Eidolon909 \*\*, you are an Ass-Hat. You appear to have no real idea what you’re talking about. > > Are the Liberals the best thing since sliced bread? No. But who do you choose instead? The Canadian-Alliance? Breeding hatred and racism since 1990? Or perhaps you prefer poor Joe Clark, the only positive aspect of the Conservatives, who I will remind you, were considerate enough to introduce the GST the last time they were in power. \*\* You do realize using “Ass-hat” as invective completely defeats the purpose of such. You drooling chimp. **The Canadian-Alliance? Breeding hatred and racism since 1990?** Yep. Drooling chimp. Did you read that in the newspaper sweety? Right-Wing parties are always villified as being racist. Usually by ignorant Liberals. Does the shoe fit? \*\*You appear to have no real idea what you’re talking about. \*\* I guess this is the part where I say, Yes I do, its obviously you who knows nothing. Its the end of the month, welfare check time, you must be happy. Molson and Players for everyone!! Yay!! ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-canadian-l-iberals/138125/56 "2002-11-23T14:40:00Z")
A political advisor privately calling Bush a moron? Good for her. Made me chuckle. Cretien publicly saying that Bush is not a moron? One heck of a back handed apology. Made me laugh out loud. Say what you will about him, Cretien has a terrific sense of humour. ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-canadian-l-iberals/138125/57 "2002-11-23T15:38:18Z")
**Eidolon909** A question for you. Where the heck are we going to get the money to make any sort of significant increase in military spending? What will take the hit: Education, Health care? Unless you want to increase taxes a lot, I can’t see a way we can afford to increase our military any worthwhile amount. No social program we have can be classified as over-funded… ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-canadian-l-iberals/138125/58 "2002-11-23T15:43:56Z")
Canada’s military is for meeting Canada’s needs, not the USA’s needs. I couldn’t give a fig for what the moron wants. ---
**Author:** ![Eidolon909](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce7236/32.png) [@Eidolon909](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eidolon909)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-canadian-l-iberals/138125/59 "2002-11-23T16:00:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muffin \* > \*\*Canada’s military is for meeting Canada’s needs, not the USA’s needs. I couldn’t give a fig for what the moron wants. \*\* For our needs and to live up to our treaty obligations. Presently our military does not meet our needs and we barely meet our obligations. We do so in a half-assed token manner, which is shameful considering Canada has a proud military history. We’ve always met the call, but its getting to the point where we won’t be able to even if we wanted to. Canada’s military doesn’t need to be huge. It just needs to be modern and effective. It is neither. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2002, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-canadian-l-iberals/138125/60 "2002-11-23T17:16:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eidolon909 \* > \*\ ***The Canadian-Alliance? Breeding hatred and racism since 1990?** > > Yep. Drooling chimp. Did you read that in the newspaper sweety? \*\* Well, I can help out with the “hatred” part: > [@](#): > > The Canadian Alliance scored 0%, also a reflection of the percentage of its MPs who voted in support of measures to provide equality for Canadian lesbians and gays. EGALE noted that Alliance MPs and candidates have denounced same-sex relationship recognition as an endorsement of “buggery”, have called homosexuality “destructive to family life” and “deviant” and have vowed to “fix” Bill C-23, which provides same-sex couples with the rights and responsibilities of opposite-sex couples. The party Constitution promises to evaluate all Bills and regulations “to ensure their effect on families is positive”, but excludes same-sex couples and opposite-sex unmarried couples by defining the family as those “related by blood, adoption or marriage.” -[EGALE political report card on gay and lesbian issues](http://www.groovyannies.com/news/2000/press71.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-canadian-l-iberals/138125.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-canadian-l-iberals/138125.md?page=4)