# FUCK YOU Chicago Board of Education!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 16, 2003, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-chicago-board-of-education/182337 "2003-06-16T23:58:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@Fin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fin_man)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2003, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-chicago-board-of-education/182337/21 "2003-06-18T15:19:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by racekarl \* > \*\*All this from a guy who’s profile says he lives in the “seat of gov’ment inaction.” Ah if only Alanis had put THAT in her song. > > :wally \*\* What, I have a typo in my profile??? Oh, “in action” is two words , not one. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![andymurph64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e57/32.png) [@andymurph64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andymurph64)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2003, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-chicago-board-of-education/182337/22 "2003-06-18T15:48:04Z")
Fin\_man, This is exactly what I’m talking about. People like you deciding that my time and expense is worth sacrificing. Why not, it’s no skin off your nose! If it costs the person time, stress, money and lower property values who cares?! It’s for the betterment of society after all. No sacrifice that other people make is too great. Keep government people who think like Fin\_man struggling to meet basic necessities so that they don’t have the freedom to decide your money, space and time are not valuable and can be sacrificed. I’m sure those people who’s homes of many years that were taken from them (in the OP) are now thinking the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Fin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@Fin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fin_man)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-chicago-board-of-education/182337/23 "2003-06-18T16:27:22Z")
I’m sorry for leading this thread into a hijack but I had to respond. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andymurph64 \* > \*\*Fin\_man, > > This is exactly what I’m talking about. People like you deciding that my time and expense is worth sacrificing. Why not, it’s no skin off your nose! If it costs the person time, stress, money and lower property values who cares?! It’s for the betterment of society after all. No sacrifice that other people make is too great. > > Keep government people who think like Fin\_man struggling to meet basic necessities so that they don’t have the freedom to decide your money, space and time are not valuable and can be sacrificed. > > I’m sure those people who’s homes of many years that were taken from them (in the OP) are now thinking the same way. \*\* Almost no infrastructure project can be completed without sacrificing somebody’s time. A road needs to be repaired but by doing so, traffic jams will occur. A bridge needs to be replaced, detour time. Whatever the project, somebody somewhere will have to make a sacrifice. Under your thinking, no project will occur if even one person must sacrifice. So keep the government struggling to provide the basic services but unable to provide others. I can see it now, Mr. Government Employee saying “Mrs. Jones, I’m sorry your son Billy got hit by a car and killed while walking on the side of the road. I wish we could have put in a sidewalk but by doing so **andymurph64** would have had to sacrifice a little time and money to repair his yard. We didn’t want to impose on anybody so that is why your son is dead. I hope you understand.” And I fail to see how putting in a sidewalk would lower your property values. If anything, it would think it would increase it since it shows that people can walk around without the fear of cars (but I’m not a real estate agent so I don’t know). If you really hate the government activities as you seem too, I recommend moving to Montana and starting your own society. You might get a visit now and then from the ATF but it should be few and far between. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-chicago-board-of-education/182337/24 "2003-06-18T16:28:43Z")
I didn’t know my thread would be taken over by right-wing/libertarian dogma, but ok. I never said I was against their building a school. But 1) this particular school is not needed and 2) there were other places in this neighborhood that would have been a better location, and wouldn’t have dislocated dozens of families. There’s a whole block, a block away, with abandoned small factory-type businesses. They could have had that whole block, instead of this silly half-block business. I like things like public schools and sidewalks, police and clean water, among other things, thank you very much. ---
**Author:** ![Fin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@Fin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fin_man)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-chicago-board-of-education/182337/25 "2003-06-18T16:34:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Equipoise \* > \*\*I like things like public schools and sidewalks, police and clean water, among other things, thank you very much. \*\* I think I have a new sig line. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2003, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-chicago-board-of-education/182337/26 "2003-06-18T16:52:55Z")
What block/school is this? I’m surprised I haven’t heard anything. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2003, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-chicago-board-of-education/182337/27 "2003-06-18T16:55:00Z")
Think I tracked it down. Is it Haugan on Leland? [http://www.pbcchicago.com/subhtml/press/pr\_haugan.asp](http://www.pbcchicago.com/subhtml/press/pr_haugan.asp) ---
**Author:** ![andymurph64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e57/32.png) [@andymurph64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andymurph64)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2003, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-chicago-board-of-education/182337/28 "2003-06-18T18:12:10Z")
That’s another problem, Fin\_man. Just because you ‘cannot see’ why it would lower property values doesn’t mean it doesn’t. We brought up several valid studies showing that it does indeed lower property values and it was ignored because it just couldn’t be. I would thank you very much to keep your opinions and your grubby paws off my money and time, please. I don’t go demanding and forcing yours. ---
**Author:** ![andymurph64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e57/32.png) [@andymurph64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andymurph64)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-chicago-board-of-education/182337/29 "2003-06-18T18:23:43Z")
Equipoise, If you have no objection to the school and what the government has done, then why the rant? Think of it as a selfless sacrifice you are doing for the happiness and wellbeing of the children! I mean, you don’t want people to think of you as some cruel, heartless basturd, do you? ---
**Author:** ![In\_Conceivable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4bbf92/32.png) [@In\_Conceivable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/In_Conceivable)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2003, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-chicago-board-of-education/182337/30 "2003-06-18T18:30:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andymurph64 \* > \*\*I mean, you don’t want people to think of you as some cruel, heartless basturd, do you? \*\* Do you mean the “real” people or the “fake” people? ---
**Author:** ![Fin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@Fin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fin_man)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2003, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-chicago-board-of-education/182337/31 "2003-06-18T18:55:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andymurph64 \* > \*\*That’s another problem, Fin\_man. Just because you ‘cannot see’ why it would lower property values doesn’t mean it doesn’t. We brought up several valid studies showing that it does indeed lower property values and it was ignored because it just couldn’t be. > > I would thank you very much to keep your opinions and your grubby paws off my money and time, please. I don’t go demanding and forcing yours. > \*\* Ah, another NIMBY person. As for sidewalks, a quick Google search came up with these: > [@](#): > > - > > [City Sidewalks:Time To End Inequality, Standardize Safety](http://www.lockport-ny.com/Features/ccity2.htm)\* > A safe and aesthetic sidewalk space promotes neighborhood interaction and enhances property values. and > [@](#): > > - > > [Redevelopment and the Redevelopment Agency](http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/redevelopment/rdfaq.htm)\* > Examples of blight include inadequate streets or sidewalks, lack of parking, excessive vacant or abandoned residential or commercial properties, and dilapidated properties. > \ > The value of property near these abatement activities generally goes up when undesirable blight conditions are eliminated, because people are willing to pay higher prices when dilapidated, vacant, and abandoned buildings are no longer present and when public improvements such as parks, safe bike ways and sidewalks are available and > [@](#): > > _[Active Community Environments](http://www.michiganfitness.org/active/factsheet.html)_ > Trails and greenways have been shown to bolster property values and make adjacent properties easier to sell. A 1998 study of property values along the Mountain Bay Trail in Brown county, Wisconsin, shows that lots adjacent to the trail sold faster and for an average of nine percent more than similar property not located next to the trail. and > [@](#): > > - > > [The Benefits and Safety of Traveling On Sidewalks](http://www.twpusc.org/cdmain/sidewalk/method/benefits.html) \* > Property Values: A walkable neighborhood will generally be a more desirable place to live than a less pedestrian friendly counterpart. and > [@](#): > > - > > [Sidewalk Safety Program](http://www.rcc.org/transeng/sidesafe.html) \* > A safe and aesthetic sidewalk space promotes neighborhood interaction and enhances property values. and > [@](#): > > \*[Self-taxing districts gain traction](http://www.cobbrides.com/Self-taxing.htm) \* > Community Improvement Districts have become such a popular vehicle to leverage public money for mini police forces, intersection upgrades and sidewalks that more suburban areas are trying to form them. > \ > Emory Morsberger, the owner of rental properties in Gwinnett, has spearheaded the CID effort and is president of the improvement association. “If you care about your ongoing property values, you should be in this,” Morsberger says on the video. Need more? ---
**Author:** ![andymurph64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e57/32.png) [@andymurph64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andymurph64)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2003, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-chicago-board-of-education/182337/32 "2003-06-18T19:30:52Z")
No, Fin\_man… I have a local study showing equivalent homes with sidewalks average less of a selling price then homes without them. It’s not much, 2-3% IIRC, but there. I know when we looked at buying a house, we discounted if they had sidewalks. I bought the house without a sidewalk and, if a sidewalk is put in, I want it done as unobtrusively as possible. Not having people gleeful chuckling as they point out they that they can tear up my yard and they don’t HAVE to fix it. (Yes, the guy chuckled gleefully…I still have the voicemail). I also want compensation for loss of value for my home and you damn well better leave my yard in equivalent condition. Or at the very least, I would have no real objections if you would put the blasted sidewalk BY THE FREAKIN STREET, not 15-19 feet INTO THE YARD! It looks freaking stupid cutting my yard in two like that! Because of this experience and complete lack of empathy and even ENJOYMENT of government workers involved, I WILL NEVER EVER support 1 cent in increased revenues for any government project ever again. I highly recommend others do the same or face increased risk of having their home taken away from them like the OP describes. ---
**Author:** ![desdinova](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8baadc/32.png) [@desdinova](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/desdinova)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-chicago-board-of-education/182337/33 "2003-06-18T20:35:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andymurph64 \* > \*\*No, Fin\_man… > > I have a local study showing equivalent homes with sidewalks average less of a selling price then homes without them. It’s not much, 2-3% IIRC, but there. > > I know when we looked at buying a house, we discounted if they had sidewalks. \*\* I appraise real estate (mainly commercial, but also residential). I’ve never ever ever seen anything that ever suggested sidewalks lower property values. I have seen plenty of evidence of sidewalks increasing property values. If it’s the only difference between two otherwise identical properties, I wouldn’t make an adjustment, but I certainly wouldn’t consider the lack of sidewalks in any way superior to a property that had 'em. I’d absolutely love to see a good local study that supports the conclusion that sidewalks not only do not contribute to property values, but in fact drag them down. My own experience suggests that the actual cites (and not just assertions) **Fin\_man** provided are not only accurate, but patently obvious. Note that a good local study ought to be performed by someone with at least some knowledge of both statistics and real estate appraisal. An MAI designation and a masters degree in mathematics would do nicely. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2003, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-chicago-board-of-education/182337/34 "2003-06-18T21:35:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Random \* > \*\*Think I tracked it down. Is it Haugan on Leland? > > [http://www.pbcchicago.com/subhtml/press/pr\_haugan.asp](http://www.pbcchicago.com/subhtml/press/pr_haugan.asp) \*\* No, it’s the 4911 block of Sawyer Ave., one block west of Kedzie and one block north of Lawrence. It’s across the street from the Hibbard Elementary Schoo. andy, did you read the paragraph right above what you referred to? I said: > [@](#): > > I never said I was against their building a school. But 1) this particular school is not needed and 2) there were other places in this neighborhood that would have been a better location, and wouldn’t have dislocated dozens of families. There’s a whole block, a block away, with abandoned small factory-type businesses. They could have had that whole block, instead of this silly half-block business. If the school were really needed, it would be top on their priority list. They don’t even have the money yet to buy up all the properties on this block, let alone build the school. Unfortunately, my building is one that they did buy, along with the ones on either side and a few more down the street. Why buy up half the block now, and throw all of these people out of their single-family, 2 and 3-flat homes when it’s still going to be at LEAST a few years before they need the property? I told you were were warned that this was going to happen. Ok, boo hoo, but fine. It’s the nonsensical and haphazard way they’re doing it that’s infuriating. The buildings are either going to be left standing and abandoned, which will be a very dangerous thing, or they’ll be knocked flat (we’ve been assured that is what will happen, but will leave a bunch of weed-growing vacant lots, standing idle for a few years. For no good reason! That’s one of the things my rant was about. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2003, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-chicago-board-of-education/182337/35 "2003-06-18T21:48:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Random \* > \*\*Think I tracked it down. Is it Haugan on Leland? > > [http://www.pbcchicago.com/subhtml/press/pr\_haugan.asp](http://www.pbcchicago.com/subhtml/press/pr_haugan.asp) \*\* GAH! I just took a good look at that page, and “our” school isn’t even one of the ones listed as being in the works. ARRRGH! They could at least have the decency to say that _something_ is happening with it! ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-chicago-board-of-education/182337/36 "2003-06-18T21:52:02Z")
Oooh, lots of typos, sorry. I meant the 4900 block of Sawyer. We live at 4911. I’ve calmed down considerably since I posted the OP (as most people do), and I’ve even forgiven the landlord. He actually offered us another place he has and we’re going to take a look at it. We’ve looked at 5 places so far and have some more lined up. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-chicago-board-of-education/182337/37 "2003-06-19T00:52:42Z")
I spent most of my childhood at Lawrence and Kenmore. The last time I was back in Chicago, I was actually suprised at how much of what I remembered was left standing, given all I’d heard about gentrification. There were changes, but they mostly weren’t accomplished with a bulldozer. [The Bryn Mawr](http://www.jpj.net/~angel/photos/Bryn~Mawr3.JPG) theater had been converted to a grocery store and a studio apartment. Buena Park had been cleaned up, but all along Kenmore iron fences had been built in front of the buildings. I like the look of wrought iron as much as anybody, but I understand that the fences were put in to keep people from sitting out on the stoops, making the place look like, well, a neighborhood of some kind. The tobacco shop down the street from [Greeley Elementary School](http://www.jpj.net/~angel/photos/greeley.jpg) is now a [Starbucks](http://www.jpj.net/~angel/photos/starbucks.jpg). Funny that. People are attracted to Uptown because of its vitality and diversity, and proceed immediately to try to make it just like the neighborhood they moved out of to begin with. The nifty shops become Starbucks and the nifty buildings become condos, if they’re allowed to stand at all. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-chicago-board-of-education/182337/38 "2003-06-19T05:31:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Johnny Angel \* > \*\*I spent most of my childhood at Lawrence and Kenmore. The last time I was back in Chicago, I was actually suprised at how much of what I remembered was left standing, given all I’d heard about gentrification. \*\* I’m not familar with Kenmore and the photos didn’t jog my memory. What’s a major cross street (Clark, Western, Pulaski)? > [@](#): > > \*\*The tobacco shop down the street from [Greeley Elementary School](http://www.jpj.net/~angel/photos/greeley.jpg) is now a [Starbucks](http://www.jpj.net/~angel/photos/starbucks.jpg). Funny that. People are attracted to Uptown because of its vitality and diversity, and proceed immediately to try to make it just like the neighborhood they moved out of to begin with. The nifty shops become Starbucks and the nifty buildings become condos, if they’re allowed to stand at all. \*\* Ah Starbucks. The first visible sign that a neighborhood has gone to hell. There aren’t any in Albany Park. Yet. It’s only a matter of time. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-chicago-board-of-education/182337/39 "2003-06-19T16:49:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Or at the very least, I would have no real objections if you would put the blasted sidewalk BY THE FREAKIN STREET, not 15-19 feet INTO THE YARD! It looks freaking stupid cutting my yard in two like that! Whether it looks stupid, or not, the city actually owns that property. It’s a public right of way; it’s not **your** yard. Your deed will reflect this and if you go rent a magnetic locator, you can find the pins sunk in the earth at the right of way limits. Most right of ways on residential streets are 60 or 66 feet wide. If the pavement is 24 feet across, that gives the city 18 to 21 feet on each side of the road to build sidewalks. And install water lines, sanitary sewers, storm sewers and grant easements for other utilities to be buried. ---
**Author:** ![byter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e480ec/32.png) [@byter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/byter)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-chicago-board-of-education/182337/40 "2003-06-20T13:08:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andymurph64 \* > **Or at the very least, I would have no real objections if you would put the blasted sidewalk BY THE FREAKIN STREET, not 15-19 feet INTO THE YARD! It looks freaking stupid cutting my yard in two like that!** Maybe they’re planning on widening the road someday? The house where I grew up lost half of the front yard when they improved the road. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-chicago-board-of-education/182337.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-chicago-board-of-education/182337.md?page=3)