# Fuck you, Christian Evangelists! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 24, 2003, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148 "2003-06-24T22:01:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/281 "2003-07-03T23:21:18Z")
Wow, this thread sure is flaming into a big fireball, ainnit? ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/282 "2003-07-03T23:24:30Z")
Thanks for the thoughts, **Seige**. You have some good points, but…nuff said for now. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/283 "2003-07-03T23:38:15Z")
His4Ever: what does one need to do in order to be a Christian? I thought the usual formula was “accept Jesus Christ as your personal lord and savior, you know, like the Mormons do.” But now it sounds like I misread the Bible, and what Jesus really said was, “Whosoever believeth in me, and believeth not that my Father was once an ordinary man, and verily shall reject henotheism, shall have eternal life.” Can you give us a shred of evidence that Mormonism isn’t about accepting Jesus as a personal savior? Or can you at least show that your argument concerns something other than theological irrelevancies? Lastly, do you consider Jeremiah to be a true prophet, or a false prophet? ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/284 "2003-07-03T23:50:41Z")
In all my time here, and all the time I’ve been reading posts by **H4E** , I’ve never really understood the interaction between her and other Dopers. Now, I get it if someone is new and doesn’t understand her iron-clad determination to be completely unwavering to her version of faith. But for really established posters like **Monty** , or **Guin** or **gobear** to go round and round with her seems to just be an exercise in futility. I mean, she’s not going to budge even an _inch_. You can show her cites, research and sources, but unless it came from the bible and _her_ interpretation of it, it’s truly pointless. If anyone says that Catholics or Mormons are Christians, the most she might acknowledge is that she knows that’s your point of view. If it’s said that other people feel just as staunch in their faith that she does in hers, the analogy seems to be lost in the translation. If the conversation turns to homosexuality and the old saw about “hating the sin but not the sinner” is brought out with a parallel about her own divorces, et al, it will simply go ignored. Or furthermore, she’ll plead hounding, persecution, or any other variety of epithets that are at her disposal (usually gleamed from what’s tossed her way) so that she doesn’t have to answer any direct questions and will be able to go away saying that she’s not actually capable of a debate on that level. So, IME, the most interesting contributions of hers to threads have been those that others simply reply around. You know, let her have her much needed say to assuage the commandment to witness the Gospel, and everyone else can go on and have a reasoned, intelligent, logical conversation. Of course, that’s just what I’ve noticed. And to add more credence to my argument here, I used to be her. A dyed-in-the-wool, took my bible to school every single day, never listened to nary a secular song, bible thumpin’, holy rollin’, biblically inerrant fundie. I wouldn’t have listened to me either. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/285 "2003-07-04T00:10:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*One major difference I see between **vanilla** and **H4E** is that vanilla doesn’t seem to feel threatened by other people’s beliefs. She knows what she likes and wants out of her faith but she feels no need for other people to agree with her on everything. She’s perfectly happy to chat right along with all us heathens and atheists and Pagans without any hostility or fear or bad feeling. She has a sense of humor. She talks to _people_, not categories like “gays” and “atheists.” As a result, I never see even the most rock-ribbed atheist ever having an issue with her or flaming her, and it isn’t because she’s afraid to express her own views. She just has a way of doing it that never sounds accusatory or mean or self-righteous. It just sounds like she’s sharing her thoughts in a friendly, non-confrontational way. > \*\* It wasn’t always this way. I was in a lot of fundie churches. And the preacher says something that isn’t necessarily a sermon about Gods love or etc. but “fundie stuff” and you start believing it (we are so persecuted!!) stuff like that. Gays are destroying america(like that too) Everyone around you agrees and you start thinking its absolutely correct. So I can see where His is coming from. heck, when I started here, I was exactly the same, religion wise. It took lots of reading posts by Monty and gobear to make me more Humble. I love you too Diogenese!) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/286 "2003-07-04T00:12:17Z")
The problem is, she keeps popping in and saying the same old thing. And it gets annoying, because we know what she thinks already. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/287 "2003-07-04T00:14:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*If you can crush **Monty** with the weight of Biblical truth, go to it. \*\* I am having an amusing mental picture here, a200 pound Bible on top of a crushed Monty. hee ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/288 "2003-07-04T00:24:25Z")
**His4Ever** and **Jersey Diamond** , I must add my pleas to what **Siege** said – with more Christian compassion than I can bring myself to feel at this time. You were both witnesses to what happened with me, and it’s a mirror image of how you must feel. Think about what you’d advise **me** to do, and then do likewise yourselves. (And if you would, e-mail me with what that advice would be; I honestly feel like I need it!) I know where you both are coming from – but you are failing to choose your battles. And so you get the (false) image of being haters and bigots among people here, and your witness goes unregarded. Like you two, I believe in a God who so loved the world that He sent His only Son that people should not perish, but have everlasting life. He did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. I know you know those verses; I am paraphrasing them in part and quoting them in part to bring across that our job is to **show** that love, avoid that condemnation, and help people to come to Him. Carrying that message is not easy; it is one people often do not want to listen to. The problem is only exacerbated when we start infighting about who has the right ideas about how God works, and how to interpret such and such a passage. Jesus did not say, “By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, that you practice doctrinal orthodoxy and have castigated all who are heretics.” As a matter of fact, He got quite peeved at the Pharisees for doing exactly that! **His** , from posts and e-mails we’ve shared, I know you think of me as someone with a good heart and a devotion to our Lord, but sadly astray and teaching false doctrine. And it would do no good to say that you are doing likewise – all we’d end up doing is fighting about that. But I ask you to consider that what I’ve said, whether it agrees with you or not, I’ve said because I believe it to be the absolute truth about what our Lord had to say, and that I bear in my heart a desire that I believe to be His work that we stop all this infighting and castigating of people and do what we’re told to do in the Great Commission. And if you can’t accept even that, then I’ll simply ask you to keep me in your prayers. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/289 "2003-07-04T00:32:45Z")
gobear: I have discussed the differences between _mainstream Christianity_ and _Mormonism_ here before. What I refuse to do is let the crap H4E spouts pass without pointing out that she’s touting a sack of lies. H4E: No, they’re not hate sites because I say so. They’re hate sites because: (a) they proffer falsehoods as evidence of how evil their intended target is, and (b) when they do manage to discuss an actual practice of their target, they portray it in a demeaning and dishonest fashion. You, though, are proof that such a tactic does work on at least one sad pitiful segment of the population. Guin: I must respectfully disagree with you here. I have yet to see any evidence H4E thinks. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/290 "2003-07-04T00:47:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JerseyDiamond \* > […] but I have never in my life met one person (except for those on SD) that thinks Mormons are. That is in and out of church. Meet more people. It might do you a world of good by broadening your horizons. > [@](#): > > Gosh, even in TV programs and movies, there are crack about LDS. Watch better programs and movies. It might do you a world of good by broadening your horizons. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/291 "2003-07-04T01:49:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\* And so you get the (false) image of being haters and bigots among people here, and your witness goes unregarded. \*\* Someone can oppose equal rights without being a bigot? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/292 "2003-07-04T02:08:34Z")
**Ben** , I can’t speak for **His4Ever** , especially after seeing her enthusiastic endorsement of **Dr Chuckie** here and material quoted from WorldNetDaily and Agape Press elsewhere. However, **Joe Cool** is on record here as saying that he and **Jersey** firmly believe that gay sex is a sin and that what he believes God meant a marriage to be does not include gay marriage – but that they are dead set against any discrimination against gay people, including the right to have a civil marriage if they want. It’s a matter of their beliefs on the one hand and their commitment to human rights and personal freedom on the other. Just like I might think that what you’re determined to do would be a mistake, but stand on your side against somebody that wants to prevent you from doing it. Best said by Voltaire, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/293 "2003-07-04T02:16:16Z")
Yeah, but **Joe** is a hateful individual for other reasons as well, **Poly**. I know you count them as friends, or at least, friendly, but they’re still hateful and nasty people. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/294 "2003-07-04T02:21:40Z")
His4Ever has said that she opposes the legalization of gay marriage. Is she a bigot, yes or no? ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/295 "2003-07-04T02:31:18Z")
Polycarp, while I appreciate you backing me up, I have a few problems with your post: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\*I beg to differ with what you say here, in detail. **Ben** is a brilliant man \*\* While that’s flattering, I must disagree. Moreover, it’s irrelevant. If you felt were merely clever, would that make the ad hominem argument against me ok? > [@](#): > > \*\* In fact, the one conflict we’ve had (hopefully now healed over) is when I declined to jump the shit of a fundamentalist whom he thought quite justifiably was misrepresenting him in a thread, to the point of extreme hostility. \*\* Polycarp, I’ve asked you before, and I’ll ask you again. If I raise an issue with you privatey, don’t make public mention of it without good reason. You put me in a particularly uncomfortable situation when you describe private matters _incorrectly,_ as you do now. There was simply no need for you to bring this issue up, as it has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand. So a fundamentalist was misrepresenting me- so what? If an African-American misrepresents me, does that mean I have a problem with Blackness? You know full well that the fact that a particular fundamentalist can be a jerk has nothing to do with the quality of fundamentalism as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![snermy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@snermy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snermy)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/296 "2003-07-04T04:46:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Siege \* > \*\ ***His4Ever, Jersey Diamond** , in Christ’s name, I beg you to stop and think for a moment. You consider your faith absolutely _vital_ to the salvation of your souls, as I understand things, that those who don’t share our faith are doomed to an eternity of suffering and you genuinely want to spare people that. I understand, and I am on your side, believe it or not. That said, please, _look_ at your actions here and in other threads. I know that it isn’t always easy, but please try to think how it would appear to a non-Christian or how you would feel if such things were said about your form of Christianity. Would you want to agree with a person who acted in such a way or who said such things? Exactly. Which brings us back round to where we started, only we’ve got the handy illustrated version. Here we have **H4E** and\*\* JD \*\* et al being told how wrong their conception of god is by people who don’t beleive what they beleive. There’s pamphlets, and quotes from various authorities they don’t ascribe to and invocations of various deities of various gender and everything. Seems like that just pisses them off just like it pisses off Muslim fundamentalist when they get told their God is evil. “Islam is a terrorist” vs “Christianity is a mass murderer”. No difference. Same level of offense. (I’m not saying either is true.) What a great demonstration of _exactly_ how having no clue about the basic history and beliefs of someone, and even less interest in ever finding out is such a fucking stupid way to go about convincing anyone of anything. I thought the article was pretty evenhanded myself. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/297 "2003-07-04T07:17:59Z")
Hi, **His4Ever** and **Diamond Jersey**. Also, which of these beliefs are Christian beliefs? If you do not hold a particular believe that is listed, is it possible for someone else to believe it and still be a Christian as long as they believe the other things I have listed? The Bible is the Word of God. Belief in God the Father, Jesus the son and the Holy Spirit Because Jesus died on the cross, everyone can be saved by following the teachings in the Gospel. Belief in repentance of sins Faith in the teachings of the Gospels Baptism by immersion People will be punished for only their own sins. Belief that man can be called by God and his church to teach the Gospel Belief in repentance of sins, faith in the teachings of the Gospels and Baptism People will be punished for only their own sins Belief in miracles such as the healing touch that Jesus demonstrated in the Bible and told his disciples to also go and do The church has disciples, ministers, evangelists, teachers and so forth – just as in the original church. The belief that Christians sometimes speak in tongues and have visions. Christians should try to live within the laws of their countries. Some Christians can have the gift of prophesy that comes from God. Belief in being kind, truthful, and chaste Belief in all that God has revealed and may reveal in the future Belief that each person should worship God according to what he believes in his heart and mind Belief in the teachings of Paul that we should hope all things and endure all things, and that we should concentrate on things that are pure, good, lovely, virtuous and praiseworthy Belief that we should seek these things in our lives Belief that the tribes of Israel will be restored. Belief that someday Jesus will reign over all of the earth I hope that you will take the time to respond. Did I leave out anything that is essential to being a Christian? Thanks! Pax ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/298 "2003-07-04T07:20:33Z")
That second sentence in my post doesn’t make sense. Just leave out the beginning “Also.” (I was asking way too many questions.) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/299 "2003-07-04T14:48:57Z")
No, snermy. What we have his JD & H4E being proven how wrong their conception of other peoples’ beliefs in deity are. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/300 "2003-07-04T15:28:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JerseyDiamond \* > Ben, I don’t mock anthing about the LDS. It’s not a religion to me. It’s a very unfunny joke. What a mean, spiteful, arrogant, sanctimonious, hypocritical, asinine, uncharitable, prideful, uncaring, and bitchy lie. Quite Christian of you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148.md?page=16)