# Fuck you, Christian Evangelists! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 24, 2003, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148 "2003-06-24T22:01:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2003, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/441 "2003-07-07T23:58:06Z")
Addendum: His4Ever, that site you posted touts the well refuted film “The Godmakers.” You can’t even stop telling lies secondhand, can you? ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/442 "2003-07-08T00:00:05Z")
OK, then, **Someone’s4Ever** , may I now call you a slut? May I now say your faith takes delight in the prospect of people burning in hell? May I accuse the Baptist Church of defying the injunction of Paul by associating themselves with the base slander contained on the website you just cited? May I accuse you of glorying in your own sin, wallowing in it like pigs in a mudhole, although by doing so I insult pigs? May I accuse you of defying the God you so ardently claim to worship by _ **continuing, irrepentantly** _ to knowingly spread falsehoods in the name of Truth? How dare you defame the name of Jesus by spreading lies? How dare you call yourself “Christian” when the result of your actions are to drive people away from Christ. Last December you indirectly accused me of being a traitor to Christ. Now I directly accuse you of that, in full knowledge that that may be the worst thing I can call you and at peril to my own soul. **You are a traitor to Christ and all He stands for.** Consider these verses in which slander is speficically and explicitly condemned: [ul][li]Romans 1:30[/li][li]Romans 3:8[/li][li]1 Corinthians 5:11[/li][li]1 Corinthians 6:10[/li][li]2 Corinthians 12:20[/li][li]Ephesians 4:31[/li][li]Colossians 3:8[/li][li]2 Timothy 3:3[/li][li]Titus 3:2[/ul][/li]Consider also the malice and the gossip you have exhibited on this board by continuing to irrepentently spread lies. Think on your complete and utter failure to show the least trace of humility, which St. Paul also counsels us to, compassion, mercy, and love which Christ requires of us. How have you loved your neighbor as yourself as Christ commanded you. Are you even capable of it? Re-read Matthew 23. You are like the Pharisees who “don’t practice what they teach. They crush you with impossible religious demands and never lift a finger to help ease the burden. Everything they do is for show. . . They enjoy the attention they get on the streets, and they enjoy being called `Rabbi.’” In the words of Christ, verses 13-33 from the King James Version of the Bible you make into such an idol: > [@](#): > > "How terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you won’t let others enter the Kingdom of Heaven, and you won’t go in yourselves.[4] 15Yes, how terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn him into twice the son of hell as you yourselves are. > 16"Blind guides! How terrible it will be for you! For you say that it means nothing to swear `by God's Temple'--you can break that oath. But then you say that it is binding to swear `by the gold in the Temple.’ 17Blind fools! Which is greater, the gold, or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? 18And you say that to take an oath `by the altar' can be broken, but to swear `by the gifts on the altar’ is binding! 19How blind! For which is greater, the gift on the altar, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20When you swear `by the altar,' you are swearing by it and by everything on it. 21And when you swear `by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. 22And when you swear `by heaven,' you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne. 23"How terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest part of your income,[5] but you ignore the important things of the law--justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but you should not leave undone the more important things. 24Blind guides! You strain your water so you won't accidentally swallow a gnat; then you swallow a camel! 25"How terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! You are so careful to clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside you are filthy--full of greed and self-indulgence! 26Blind Pharisees! First wash the inside of the cup, and then the outside will become clean, too. 27"How terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs--beautiful on the outside but filled on the inside with dead people's bones and all sorts of impurity. 28You try to look like upright people outwardly, but inside your hearts are filled with hypocrisy and lawlessness. 29"How terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you build tombs for the prophets your ancestors killed and decorate the graves of the godly people your ancestors destroyed. 30Then you say, `We never would have joined them in killing the prophets.’ > 31"In saying that, you are accusing yourselves of being the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32Go ahead. Finish what they started. 33Snakes! Sons of vipers! How will you escape the judgment of hell? Your user name is banished from my fingers. To me, you are now **Someone’s4Ever** at best, although **Baal’s4Ever** is feeling more accurate right now. I prayed this day would not come. I prayed that God would spare both of us. I prayed that you would open your heart of stone to Him, but you refused to do so. Yesterday, as I read these words from Ezekiel to my congregation in church, I was thinking of you and praying for you: > [@](#): > > **Ezekiel 2:1-7** > 1 God said to me, “Son of man, stand up on your feet and I will speak to you.” 2 As he spoke, the Spirit came into me and raised me to my feet, and I heard him speaking to me. > 3 He said: "Son of man, I am sending you to the Israelites, to a rebellious nation that has rebelled against me; they and their fathers have been in revolt against me to this very day. 4 The people to whom I am sending you are obstinate and stubborn. Say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says.’ 5 And whether they listen or fail to listen-for they are a rebellious house-they will know that a prophet has been among them. 6 And you, son of man, do not be afraid of them or their words. Do not be afraid, though briers and thorns are all around you and you live among scorpions. Do not be afraid of what they say or terrified by them, though they are a rebellious house. 7 You must speak my words to them, whether they listen or fail to listen, for they are rebellious. Later, I learned **Polycarp** had also, coincidentally, read this same passage aloud to his congregation and thought of you while doing so. I have done as God has commanded me. I have reasoned with you, begged you, and pleaded with you to turn from your rebellious and heartless ways. Still you persist in slandering others and invoking the name of God while doing so. You say I have no reason to think you’re not a Christian? I say to you I have every bit as much reason to accuse you of not being a Christian as you have to accuse Catholics and Mormons of not being Christians. I could claim more, because my belief is based upon the testimony of my own observance of your actions, while yours is based on biased, second hand, slanderous testimony. You show no evidence of God’s life or Christ’s ministry in your actions, nor do you show any evidence of any real willingness to do so, although you may mouth the words on occaision. A Wiccan defended you many times over, yet you, in your so-called Christian arrogance, would accuse him of being a damned sinner. Given the company of sinners like him or so-called Christians like you, I will choose to be damned, for such is a better and more honest fate. Do not pray for me. I do not want the demon you worship intervening on my behalf. I will pray that God soften my heart toward you, and that He continue to try to get you to see and proclaim Him for what He is, but, as God once said of Israel, another people who believed themselves chosen, you are “impudent and stubborn.” Once I would have signed off “Respectfully.” Your last post, coupled with your actions in this thread, has removed the last vestige of respect I had for you. God willing (a phrase I have never seen you use, by the way), it will be restored. May God touch that stone that lives where your heart should be. With great sorrow, CJ ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/443 "2003-07-08T00:03:59Z")
Gotta love someone who refutes the accusation of lying by spreading another lie. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/444 "2003-07-08T00:19:43Z")
\ Or not. (Yow! That girl can _flame_.) ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/445 "2003-07-08T00:22:07Z")
\ Erm. What **Miller** said. Actually, technically, he’s right. I do "Gotta love someone who " etc. It’s just that right now, it ain’t easy! :rolleyes: CJ ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/446 "2003-07-08T00:23:47Z")
Siege: #1) Remind me to stay clear when you’re fired up. #2) Read H4E’s posting on page 8 of this thread in response to Polycarp. I don’t think she’s all that interested in what someone she considers an apostate has to say. We already know she’s not interested at all in truth. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/447 "2003-07-08T00:26:56Z")
Siege & Miller: Isn’t it funny that one of the gripes H4E has with my church is one particular prayer we have? So she gets in a huff about it and calls us non-Christian saying we shouldn’t pray for folks. And now she says she’s praying for me. Hah! ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/448 "2003-07-08T01:14:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > > **…I’m praying for you.** Oh, and _I_ am praying for _you_, **H4E**. Actually, I have been for quite sometime, but I realize that diligence and perseverance doesn’t always produce the desired results. What a pity. What a tremendous shame. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/449 "2003-07-08T01:31:27Z")
Hmm, Prince of Peace? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/450 "2003-07-08T02:32:17Z")
Siege: May I point out a bit of a minor thing? The main LDS outfit is called _The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints_. There are, sadly, offshoots that call themselve other things–one of 'em might use the expression you typed; however, none of them, AFAIK, calls themselves Mormons. That’s just us guys who think Utah is the bee’s knees. His4Ever: Care to point to a posting by me where I asked you to believe in the LDS church’s version of the Gospel? ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/451 "2003-07-08T03:24:35Z")
Remarkably germane to this discussion is (IMO) the account of Jesus when he was conftronted by the scribes and Pharisees with the [woman taken in adultery](http://scriptures.lds.org/john/8/3-11#9). Of particular note is the response when Jesus suggested “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her”: > [@](#): > > And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. So it is with these religious squabbles. The immature are slowest to admit error, or to hand out mercy. **His4ever** , you along with others appear to be among these who are last to walk away, shamed by conscience only at the very end. And that’s how I started when I served as a missionary, sad to say. I was a bit too eager to condemn, and too slow to forgive. But as I grew, and sincerly tried to help people, I found myself more genuinely concerned about each person’s well being, and less concerned about whether they agreed with me. Naturally, conversion and baptism are still critical goals, necessary for each person’s spiritual welfare, but I learned that presenting the message in a way that offends does no good for anyone. I learned that when I found someone who wasn’t interested in hearing what I had to say, it was better to wish him well and sincerely pray for him. It was better for me, and for everyone else. Now, let’s be clear: I’m not saying to water down the message out of fear of rejection. Rather I’m talking about tailoring the message for each person, to the degree he is willing to receive it. Once some is received, more can be given. And in all things, avoid contention–nothing good comes of it (and it is impossible to genuinely convert someone to truth by means of a lie, as the article cited in the OP describes). Finally, **His4ever** , you can safely assume that we Mormons (or Catholics) have heard the criticisms you have lobbed at us here in this thread. You can also assume that we’ve responded to them, pointing out the errors and exposing the polemics. I suggest you attempt to find out how we’ve responded to critics–we LDS have had the better part of 200 years to fight ignorance, but (as noted here) it’s taking longer than we thought. Sincere disagreement is expected, but surely you agree that you should at least get your facts right? ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/452 "2003-07-08T03:48:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Siege \* > \*\* (lotsa stuff deleted for the beautiful brevity of this closing comment): > > May God touch that stone that lives where your heart should be. > With great sorrow, > CJ \*\* Beautiful, **Siege** , just beautiful! Oh, and remind me to not get you pissed at me! 😉 I’m Wiccan yet I could feel the flames all the way over here. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/453 "2003-07-08T04:03:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Freyr \* > \*\*Beautiful, **Siege** , just beautiful! > > Oh, and remind me to not get you pissed at me! 😉 I’m Wiccan yet I could feel the flames all the way over here. \*\* So, friend, is perhaps her closest spiritual advisor! (And a brilliant, wise, and compassionate man, whose acquaintance is perhaps her second greatest gift to me.) In any case, I think you need not worry about **Siege** flames. For the most part you, though a Wiccan, live out the spirit of Christ for which she and I seek in people – and find it often very un-evident in the loves of many who are the quickest to call themselves Christian – and to question the Christianity of others. (Why the fuck else do you think He told you to persevere?!? ;j) ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/454 "2003-07-08T05:05:54Z")
**Monty** : > [@](#): > > us guys who think Utah is the bee’s knees “Bee’s knees?” Was that truly necessary? Hiss. Hiss, I say. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/455 "2003-07-08T06:13:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andros \* > \*\ ***Monty** : > > “Bee’s knees?” Was that truly necessary? Hiss. Hiss, I say. \*\* Gee, **Andros** , there are those who would think that sort of pun is no more than our Just Deserets. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/456 "2003-07-08T11:00:02Z")
First of all, my apologies to anyone who got scorched by collateral damage. That does not, of course, include **\_\_\_\_'s4Ever**. I don’t lose my temper all that often. The fire was directed at one person and one person only, and I did try to warn her. Surely Friday’s eruption was a hint? **Freyr, Miller,** you two are in no danger from me, and if you ever are, I will warn you first. **Monty** , please accept my apologies for the terminology I used. If you could suggest a good noun for “a follower of the Church of Latter Day Saints”, I’d appreciate it. I’ve been using “Mormon” as the best I could come up with from my limited knowledge. Basically, I’d like the equivalent of “Catholic”. **\_\_\_\_'s4Ever** , my accusations against you stand. Refute them with deeds if you have a trace of courage. Again, my apologies to anyone and everyone who got scorched by collateral damage. I’ve also made my apologies to the poor hamsters, and I promise my keyboard isn’t melted! **Freyr** , that Wiccan friend of mine, (known as **HJay** around here) is indeed a source of great strength, comfort, and wisdom to me, and I called him right after I blew up here. He’s also defended **\_\_\_\_'s4Ever** many times and talked me out of flaming her more than once. I’ll take you two over a ton of Christians like **\_\_\_\_'s4Ever** , although maybe not over **Polycarp**. CJ ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/457 "2003-07-08T13:18:15Z")
The pun was completely unintended. Siegie: A follower of the Church of Jesus Christ of **Latter-day** Saints is known as a Latter-day Saint. Common parlance has such a follower referred to as Mormon. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/458 "2003-07-08T13:20:21Z")
Ack! Common parlance also has the username as Siege. Sorry about the misspelling! Hey, Siege misspelled it too! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/459 "2003-07-08T13:49:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Siege: May I point out a bit of a minor thing? The main LDS outfit is called _The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints_. There are, sadly, offshoots that call themselve other things–one of 'em might use the expression you typed; however, none of them, AFAIK, calls themselves Mormons. That’s just us guys who think Utah is the bee’s knees. > > His4Ever: Care to point to a posting by me where I asked you to believe in the LDS church’s version of the Gospel? \*\* **Monty** , I admit to a bit of confusion here, and (as I’m sure is true for **Siege** as well, would not uinintentionally offend you and the other members of the church founded/restored by Joseph Smith Jr. I know the church’s formal name is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, with hyphen and small d on the penultimate word/words. I know some members are particular on that last bit of capitalization and punctuation because separatist groups use related names with no hyphen and/or a capital D. I know that “Mormon” originated as a pejorative (roughly, “those weirdos who believe that Smith’s ‘Book of Mormon’ is Scripture”), but, like Christian and Methodist, has been reclaimed and is used with pride by Mormons of themslves. I know that the Latter-day Saints of the offical name refers to the Christian Nephite leaders, e.g., Mormon and Moroni, and by extension is sometimes used of your 19th Century founders, eg., Joseph Smith, Jr., and Brigham Young, though that is not the technical meaning – and, by extreme extension, of persons such as yourself who are members of the CoJCoLDS – and that the two extensions are gently discouraged. I know that LDS as an abbreviation is an acceptable shorthand for the church and its beliefs used adjectivally, e.g., “LDS President Gordon Hinckley said today…” I went over **Siege** ’s posts after seeing your comment, and for the life of me I cannot see what you questioned in her usage. BTW, as a sort of hijack, can you state briefly and objectively the differences that divide you from the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the other separatist groups, just as a matter of intellectual curiosity? Thanks for the clarification. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148/460 "2003-07-08T13:51:06Z")
…and I know that I should preview! :o Any further comments you’d like to make on my analysis of terminology? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-christian-evangelists/184148.md?page=24)