# Fuck You Conservative Stupid-Making Machine **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 4, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977 "2010-10-04T05:12:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/41 "2010-10-04T16:07:01Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > When you look at the drug, crime, STD, single-parent and abortion statistics, and at the way people dress, talk and behave these days, and when you look at the size and scope of government compared with just a few decades ago, **there is no doubt whatsoever** that liberalism has been the dominant hegemonic force in the U.S. over the last forty years or so. You forgot to say “in my mind”. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/42 "2010-10-04T16:11:15Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Now, there are conservative anti-vaxers too, just as there are liberals who deny evolution. But there should be no question that in certain liberal quarters the anti-vax movement has special appeal. Does this necessarily invalidate the broader movement? Not at all, any more than a few deniers of evolution should threaten a broad conservative movement. “A few” deniers of evolution? Don’t make me laugh. Try tens of millions, almost all on the right. And as for your anti-vax point, here’s a thought-experiment: can you imagine a right-leaning board shouting down global warming deniers _half_ as much as anti-vaxers are shouted down here? ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/43 "2010-10-04T16:11:49Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Now, there are conservative anti-vaxers too, just as there are liberals who deny evolution. But there should be no question that in certain liberal quarters the anti-vax movement has special appeal. Does this necessarily invalidate the broader movement? Not at all, any more than a few deniers of evolution should threaten a broad conservative movement. Point taken. But when you look at the people in power who attempt to legislate creationist policies, they are mostly republicans. Meanwhile, the people who attempt to legislate anti-vax policies are…also mostly republicans (like Rand Paul). ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_of_the_Lake)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/44 "2010-10-04T16:16:40Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Now, there are conservative anti-vaxers too, just as there are liberals who deny evolution. But there should be no question that in certain liberal quarters the anti-vax movement has special appeal. Does this necessarily invalidate the broader movement? Not at all, any more than a few deniers of evolution should threaten a broad conservative movement. You know, I see your point here. As a liberal, I have tended to label the anti-evolution movement as ‘Conservatives’. Though really I should be viewing it as a movement that overlaps certain areas… And yet, with the anti-vax movement I’ve never thought ‘Liberals’, even though it is prevalent in certain liberal areas. Instead, I see them as pseudo health nut freaks spawned by Oprah-ism\*. The fact that many are liberals is incidental. (Plus, stupid is an infectious disease therefore it’s spreading in those liberal areas quickly.) The problem is that movements such as these are so \*loud \*that it’s hard to not start generalizing about the opposition. - cite, my anti-vax sister. Last week she told me my plastic shower curtain is going to make me fat. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/45 "2010-10-04T16:17:36Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > > [@Mr.Moto](#): > > > > Now, there are conservative anti-vaxers too, just as there are liberals who deny evolution. But there should be no question that in certain liberal quarters the anti-vax movement has special appeal. Does this necessarily invalidate the broader movement? Not at all, any more than a few deniers of evolution should threaten a broad conservative movement. > > I wonder if you see how it is that your evidence is a complete fail, vis a vis your claim? Do you need me to point it out, because it is blindingly obvious. > > ETA: Okay, I’ll spare you the suspense. If you’re going to claim that there’s a relationship between two variables, you can’t just point to one end of one distribution (or one group) and talk about the level of the other variable. > > Here, you don’t even bother to give any comparisons to any rates any where else. You’ve just pointed to what you want to claim are liberal enclaves, and talked about what the rates of immunization are there. What in hell do you think this even shows? > > BTW, do you realize that one of your own cites talks about the contribution of religious convictions to anti-vax feelings, as well as the role of people like Phyllis Schlafly in the debate? I’d say you’ve got all kinds of FAIL going on with your effort here. First of all, I have allowed for conservative anti-vax sentiment in my first post here - yet even someone so obtuse as yourself would allow that Ms. Schlafly’s influence is minimal in Berkeley or Marin County. Something else has to be going on there. Secondly, the links I provided did give statewide averages for California right next to those for Berkeley and Marin County. It is 91.1%, which in itself is a bit low. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/46 "2010-10-04T16:22:06Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > \Just silly. The right has abandoned its old role of being a voice of caution in case we move too fast, to being a bunch of people who care nothing at all about facts or reasoning. From creationism, to death panels, to supply side economics, you just make shit up with no regards to reality. You want to use religion as a cudgel to support your utterly baseless beliefs, and you think evolution challenges religion, so you attack evolution. This is the new face of conservatism: a stream of falsehoods, hatred, and prejudice but all OK because it advances your cause of creating an American Taliban. That’s interesting; what also interests me is the question of why people would have changed like this. What’s in it for them? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/47 "2010-10-04T16:35:52Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I have no hesitation is saying unequivocally, **Starving Artist** , that if William F. Buckley were a member of this message board, he would want nothing to do with you or with the vast majority of your arguments. If he were at a gathering with you, and you made some of the same arguments you’ve made here, he would look down that patrician nose of his, sniff a little, and probably move to the other side of the room. You would embarrass the hell out of him, precisely because you lack every single facet of the intellectual engagement and rigor that he brought to his ideology. You’re a cartoon; you are the anti-Buckley, the type of person from whom he was trying to rescue conservatism. If I might ask, how do you imagine Buckley would feel about me? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/48 "2010-10-04T16:36:12Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Now, there are conservative anti-vaxers too, just as there are liberals who deny evolution. But there should be no question that in certain liberal quarters the anti-vax movement has special appeal. You’re right, there is a small sub-group of liberal types who make up a pretty visible section of the anti-vax movement. The problem, though, is not simply that irrational people exist; it’s a question of how many of them there are, how much influence they have, and how much slack the non-crazy elements of their political group are willing to give them. And there’s the key issue with the conservative anti-evolution crowd. Not only are there lots of them, but they have considerable political clout on their issue in many areas (especially in local and state races), and even mainstream conservatives who _do_ believe in evolution go out of their way to pander to the extremists because they want and need their votes. By contrast, even here on the uber-liberal SDMB, the anti-vaxers are not only opposed, they are actively ridiculed as dangerous and deluded, usually by liberal Dopers. Here’s a [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=568313) from less than two weeks ago. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/49 "2010-10-04T16:47:48Z")
People want, fervently, to believe things that coincide with their existing beliefs. > **[Sokal affair](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair)** > > The Sokal affair, also called the Sokal hoax, was a demonstrative scholarly hoax performed by Alan Sokal, a physics professor at New York University and University College London. In 1996, Sokal submitted an article to Social Text, an academic journal of cultural studies. The submission was an experiment to test the journal's intellectual rigor, specifically to investigate whether "a leading North American journal of cultural studies—whose editorial collective includes such luminaries as Fredr ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/50 "2010-10-04T16:49:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If I might ask, how do you imagine Buckley would feel about me? Well, i don’t claim to be able to read Bill Buckley’s mind. I just made the point to **Starving Artist** because his mode of argumentation is so antithetical to Buckley’s intellectualism that his invocation of Buckley struck me as hilarious. If i simply say that Buckley would find more to admire in your arguments than in **Starving Artist** ’s that’s not really much of a compliment to you. But, more generally, i think he would appreciate your willingness to be thoughtful about the issues, to be honest about the origins of your personal moral beliefs (your Catholicism, etc.), and to change your mind when presented with an argument that you find compelling. He would, however, probably get frustrated with your insistence on answering moral and philosophical arguments with legal rebuttals (or maybe i’m misreading him there). 🙂 Look, while i have some admiration for Buckley’s intellectualism and his historical role in the rise of American conservatism, i still don’t like him very much. Hell, even on his Firing Line show he could be sufficiently dismissive and pandering to compete with modern TV talking heads like Rush Limbaugh. Instead of blustering and shouting, though, Buckley adopted a certain patrician dismissiveness and condescension. His interview with Noam Chomsky, for example, has a few instances in which he oversimplifies or caricatures Chomsky’s position, as well as a (humorous) threat to punch Chomsky in the face. A short example can be found [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEIrZO069Kg), and a much longer section of the interview (not sure if it’s the whole thing) can be viewed [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt-GUAxmxdk). ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/51 "2010-10-04T17:01:03Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > First of all, I have allowed for conservative anti-vax sentiment in my first post here - yet even someone so obtuse as yourself would allow that Ms. Schlafly’s influence is minimal in Berkeley or Marin County. Something else has to be going on there. > > Secondly, the links I provided did give statewide averages for California right next to those for Berkeley and Marin County. It is 91.1%, which in itself is a bit low. I’m the obtuse one? You’re the one who has come here claiming some kind of particular link between liberalism and anti-vax sentiment, and all you can do to support it is to give vaccination rates in two localities, absent any particular context? We don’t even have to debate your characterization of these as representative of liberalism, because your argument doesn’t even get that far. It fails on basic logic and stats right out of the gate. It’s a non fucking starter. Now, I’m not making any claim about the relationship, but I’ll advance your argument a bit further. Let’s look at MMR vaccination by state. Here’s the CDCs rates for 2007. > **[National, State, and Local Area Vaccination Coverage Among Children Aged...](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5735a1.htm)** Let’s just grab some places by their typical political ideological characterizations: California: 94.6% New York: 93.6% Massachusetts: 93.3% Vermont: 93.6% New Jersey: 91.6% Texas: 90.4% Georgia: 91.4% South Carolina: 92.5% Arizona: 89.0% South Carolina: 92.5% Weird. Those places that are typically characterized as more liberal seem to be showing higher rates of MMR vaccinations, despite the belief by some that these vaccines cause autism. When come back, bring less FAIL. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/52 "2010-10-04T17:08:29Z")
Lobo, I don’t think a guy who can’t tell a fact from an opinion has any business calling others stupid. Remember that thread recently where you got on my ass for ignoring “facts” and then said the “facts” I ignore are “Keynesian economics” and “health care reform” and “global warming”? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/53 "2010-10-04T17:12:26Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Weird. Those places that are typically characterized as more liberal seem to be showing higher rates of MMR vaccinations, despite the belief by some that these vaccines cause autism. > > When come back, bring less FAIL. Well, one thing we need to be careful of here is that we don’t correlate rates of vaccination _directly_ with anti-vax sentimient. That is, there are reasons other than anti-vax ideology that certain populations might not get vaccinated. In some areas, people who have trouble with English, who are in the country illegally, or who are poor and uneducated, might not find out about vaccination at all. Also, even among those who refuse the vaccination, there’s an important difference between those who are frightened of something they don’t understand and those who actively oppose vaccination due to incorrect ideas about its effects, between people who don’t know all the facts and people who stubbornly refuse to admit the facts. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/54 "2010-10-04T17:12:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > > [@mhendo](#): > > > > I have no hesitation is saying unequivocally, **Starving Artist** , that if William F. Buckley were a member of this message board, he would want nothing to do with you or with the vast majority of your arguments. If he were at a gathering with you, and you made some of the same arguments you’ve made here, he would look down that patrician nose of his, sniff a little, and probably move to the other side of the room. You would embarrass the hell out of him, precisely because you lack every single facet of the intellectual engagement and rigor that he brought to his ideology. You’re a cartoon; you are the anti-Buckley, the type of person from whom he was trying to rescue conservatism. > > If I might ask, how do you imagine Buckley would feel about me? Dude, he’d be all over you. You are so fucking money and you don’t even know it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/55 "2010-10-04T17:13:31Z")
**Hentor** , I also cited high rates of exemptions from immunization for personal beliefs in Marin and Berkeley - and Boulder as well, in the older article. Your latest cite does not address the issue of PBEs at all - these low rates of immunization could be attributed to many other factors, including poverty, access to medical care, and the like. Please show how PBEs contributed to the lower rates for Texas or Arizona - and keep in mind that their immunization rate statewide still is higher than that for Berkeley or Marin County. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/56 "2010-10-04T17:16:38Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Has it ever occurred to you that the right in this country is simply not allowed to engage in the debate? > > For decades and decades the left has met conservatives and conservative philosophy, morals and lifestyle with scorn, ridicule, hatred and anger. Liberals are so convinced of the moral righteousness of their position, their intellectual superiority, and the stupidity and/or evil of anyone who disagrees with them, that they uttely cannot tolerate and don’t tolerate any sort of reasonable dialog. Do you have doubts as to the constitutionality of affirmative action or its consequences in the workplace? Then you’re a racist bigot! Do you dispute allegations that apart from reproduction, there is no difference between men and women whatsoever and no job exists that a man can do which a woman can’t? Then you’re a sexist bastard! Do you honestly feel that it is outside the proper role of government to redistribute income? Then you’re a greedy motherfucker with an “I got mine, you get yours” attitude! Do you honestly feel that private health care delivers a better and more immediate quality of health care than would a government-run system? Then you’re a heartless bastard who wants to see poor people dying in the street! Are you unconvinced about global warming and unsure whether it’s manmade or not, and whether if it is if we know what to do about it, and if it is and what we need to do about it will the rest of the world’s population go along and work to reduce it? Then you’re a greedy right-wing asshole more concered that industry make profits than about saving the world…either that or you’re just too stupid to understand the science. Are you middle-aged and decades away from school and completely divorced from the science involved in evolution? Then of course you’re just a stupid, backward, mouth-breathing knuckle-dragger! > > There is simply no way to have a productive discussion with people of a liberal mindset on the national level (as opposed to somewhere like here on the Dope where it does happen on rare occasion). So in a very real sense, politics has become all out war where you choose your side, dig in deep and fight with all you’ve got…and may the best man win! This may be happening with your father; he may have just become so disgusted with the antics of the left that he’s found himself gravitating to the extremes of the other end just because there’s no place else to go. > > And I would point out that you, **Lobohan** , are among the worst on this board when it comes to engaging in this type of behavior. There may have been times when I’ve seen you debate something with a conservative without calling him stupid and/or a moron, but I can’t think of one if I have. > > So the result, as is usually the case when liberalism predominates, is one of unintended consequences. When you shut down debate and the give-and-take that goes with it, you create a atmosphere where the other side is driven to extremes in order to combat you. And then your side, seeing that extremism on the other side, reacts accordingly and we eventually arrive where we are today, where you basically have two sides that hate each other and have become determined to defeat the other at all costs. > > Time and time again I watch clips of shows like William F. Buckley’s _Firing Line_ and come upon comments wondering why we don’t have intelligent, dignified discussions of opposing viewpoints anymore, and in my opinion it’s the result of the name-calling, scorn and hatred which has been the standard operating practice of the left since the anti-war days of the late sixties, combined with an overall breakdown in societal mores also caused by the left and which I’ve talked about before. > > So really, you have no one to blame but yourselves. And the stupid viewpoiont has weighed in. You get pretty fucking tired arguing with people who don’t listen but instead gibber about God said (and that’s usually wrong and misquoted) or the “Invisible Market Hand” or the good old “you traitor get out of myc ountry”. You get sick of teh same old bullshit tripe from the same old bullshit “tape recorder”. And like many have told you before, it isn’t the Sixties and the Diorty Hippy Contingent. There is no “other side of the argument” and there are no provable or half ass supportable FACTS on the other side of Evolution. So WHY should we waste our time dignifying the same ignorant stupid fucking LIES all over again? God you’re a fucking idiot. Some things never change. P.S. I know that tired “teach the controversy” line. More bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/57 "2010-10-04T17:19:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Not trying to butt my big fat nose in your beeswax, **Lobo** , but how old is this guy? You could be a puppy Doper, and yer FIL would only be on the verge of later youth. Or you might be my age, and your father in law went to high school with God. > > Just sayin’, maybe a word to the wife, keep an eye out for any other odd changes in mental behavior. Not that I know anything much, or have some expertise to rattle your cage with. I’m not as er… \*distinguished \*as yourself, but the gent in question just hit 60. So it’s a little unlikely dementia is the cause. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/58 "2010-10-04T17:20:58Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > > [@Lobohan](#): > > > > Here’s the thing, I think there should be conservatives in the debate. I think liberalism without a conservative check could go too far. But the right in America isn’t about debate any more. It’s about histrionics and brainwashing. Instead of debating what to do about Global Warming they pretend it doesn’t exist. Instead of debating what to do about immigration they stomp their feet and scream that no progress will be had until we have a fence.Here’s the thing, I think there should be conservatives in the debate. I think liberalism without a conservative check could go too far. But the right in America isn’t about debate any more. It’s about histrionics and brainwashing. Instead of debating what to do about Global Warming they pretend it doesn’t exist. Instead of debating what to do about immigration they stomp their feet and scream that no progress will be had until we have a fence. > > Has it ever occurred to you that the right in this country is simply not allowed to engage in the debate? > > For decades and decades the left has met conservatives and conservative philosophy, morals and lifestyle with scorn, ridicule, hatred and anger. Liberals are so convinced of the moral righteousness of their position, their intellectual superiority, and the stupidity and/or evil of anyone who disagrees with them, that they uttely cannot tolerate and don’t tolerate any sort of reasonable dialog. Do you have doubts as to the constitutionality of affirmative action or its consequences in the workplace? Then you’re a racist bigot! Do you dispute allegations that apart from reproduction, there is no difference between men and women whatsoever and no job exists that a man can do which a woman can’t? Then you’re a sexist bastard! Do you honestly feel that it is outside the proper role of government to redistribute income? Then you’re a greedy motherfucker with an “I got mine, you get yours” attitude! Do you honestly feel that private health care delivers a better and more immediate quality of health care than would a government-run system? Then you’re a heartless bastard who wants to see poor people dying in the street! Are you unconvinced about global warming and unsure whether it’s manmade or not, and whether if it is if we know what to do about it, and if it is and what we need to do about it will the rest of the world’s population go along and work to reduce it? Then you’re a greedy right-wing asshole more concered that industry make profits than about saving the world…either that or you’re just too stupid to understand the science. Are you middle-aged and decades away from school and completely divorced from the science involved in evolution? Then of course you’re just a stupid, backward, mouth-breathing knuckle-dragger! > > There is simply no way to have a productive discussion with people of a liberal mindset on the national level (as opposed to somewhere like here on the Dope where it does happen on rare occasion). So in a very real sense, politics has become all out war where you choose your side, dig in deep and fight with all you’ve got…and may the best man win! This may be happening with your father; he may have just become so disgusted with the antics of the left that he’s found himself gravitating to the extremes of the other end just because there’s no place else to go. > > And I would point out that you, **Lobohan** , are among the worst on this board when it comes to engaging in this type of behavior. There may have been times when I’ve seen you debate something with a conservative without calling him stupid and/or a moron, but I can’t think of one if I have. > > So the result, as is usually the case when liberalism predominates, is one of unintended consequences. When you shut down debate and the give-and-take that goes with it, you create a atmosphere where the other side is driven to extremes in order to combat you. And then your side, seeing that extremism on the other side, reacts accordingly and we eventually arrive where we are today, where you basically have two sides that hate each other and have become determined to defeat the other at all costs. > > Time and time again I watch clips of shows like William F. Buckley’s _Firing Line_ and come upon comments wondering why we don’t have intelligent, dignified discussions of opposing viewpoints anymore, and in my opinion it’s the result of the name-calling, scorn and hatred which has been the standard operating practice of the left since the anti-war days of the late sixties, combined with an overall breakdown in societal mores also caused by the left and which I’ve talked about before. > > So really, you have no one to blame but yourselves. Others have already responded to this, but allow me to say, that is actually a thoughtful and reasoned post. It’s stupid and wrong, but at least you’re trying. Tell the orderly to keep the pill mix you’re on. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/59 "2010-10-04T17:21:38Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Well, one thing we need to be careful of here is that we don’t correlate rates of vaccination _directly_ with anti-vax sentimient. That is, there are reasons other than anti-vax ideology that certain populations might not get vaccinated. > > In some areas, people who have trouble with English, who are in the country illegally, or who are poor and uneducated, might not find out about vaccination at all. Also, even among those who refuse the vaccination, there’s an important difference between those who are frightened of something they don’t understand and those who actively oppose vaccination due to incorrect ideas about its effects, between people who don’t know all the facts and people who stubbornly refuse to admit the facts. I agree with you that this method is an exceedingly poor way to test the hypothetical relationship between anti-vax sentiment and political orientation. I would never have selected it myself. Having had the person making the argument select it, however, I’m more than happy to demonstrate how the hypothesis is not supported even when using that (extremely dubious) methodology. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/60 "2010-10-04T17:25:41Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > **Hentor** , I also cited high rates of exemptions from immunization for personal beliefs in Marin and Berkeley - and Boulder as well, in the older article. Your latest cite does not address the issue of PBEs at all - these low rates of immunization could be attributed to many other factors, including poverty, access to medical care, and the like. > > Please show how PBEs contributed to the lower rates for Texas or Arizona - and keep in mind that their immunization rate statewide still is higher than that for Berkeley or Marin County. > > Thanks. Since this is your assertion, not mine, how about you take the time to support it. Please provide evidence that those with an anti-vaccination orientation are more likely to also have a liberal political orientation. Preferably, please select a better method of doing so than pointing to community level rates, particularly by pointing to one or two communities alone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977.md?page=4)