# Fuck You Conservative Stupid-Making Machine **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 4, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977 "2010-10-04T05:12:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/81 "2010-10-04T18:11:12Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > > [@mr. Moto](#): > > > > three communities. My first concerned boulder - and did link the anti-vaccination movement there to alternative medicine and to the waldorf movement in a particular school with a very high rate of pbes. > > > > Also, frankly, there are very few conservatives in boulder and there is a whole lot of whooping cough. Correlation can’t be confused with causation, but it is correlation, which is all i was doing right from the start here. > > IT’S NOT EVEN CORRELATION! You’re not getting it. To show correlation, you need to show a systematic relationship over the span of two distributions. You’re pointing to two (or three?) single points which you’ve selected and looking at the rate. That’s not correlation, dipshit. > > For example, following your links, I see that San Luis Obispo, which historically votes GOP, has a rate of personal belief exemption that is twice the state rate. Since you’re arguing from a pointilistic orientation, we have no idea of knowing whether your individually hand-selected anecdotal bits or mine are any better than one another. Okay - we can take another tack on this entirely. [Robert F. Kennedy Jr’s. anti-vaccination manifesto.](http://www.robertfkennedyjr.com/articles/2005_june_16.html) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/82 "2010-10-04T18:16:14Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > > > Since this is your assertion, not mine, how about you take the time to support it. Please provide evidence that those with an anti-vaccination orientation are more likely to also have a liberal political orientation. Preferably, please select a better method of doing so than pointing to community level rates, particularly by pointing to one or two communities alone. > > Three communities. My first concerned Boulder - and did link the anti-vaccination movement there to alternative medicine and to the Waldorf movement in a particular school with a very high rate of PBEs. > > Also, frankly, there are very few conservatives in Boulder and there is a whole lot of whooping cough. Correlation can’t be confused with causation, but it is correlation, which is all I was doing right from the start here. It is my stipulation that most 4-legged animals are cats. To prove this, I went down to the local cat shelter, and 100 percent of the four-legged creatures there were cats. Now, there may be small enclaves of four-legged dogs elsewhere, but I can point out dozens of other cat shelters that are full of four-legged cats, pretty much proving my point. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/83 "2010-10-04T18:18:30Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > > [@DanBlather](#): > > > > \Just silly. The right has abandoned its old role of being a voice of caution in case we move too fast, to being a bunch of people who care nothing at all about facts or reasoning. From creationism, to death panels, to supply side economics, you just make shit up with no regards to reality. You want to use religion as a cudgel to support your utterly baseless beliefs, and you think evolution challenges religion, so you attack evolution. This is the new face of conservatism: a stream of falsehoods, hatred, and prejudice but all OK because it advances your cause of creating an American Taliban. > > That’s interesting; what also interests me is the question of why people would have changed like this. What’s in it for them? It’s a great question. In almost every area life is better in states that are more liberal: education, health, wealth, divorce rate, etc., but conservatives want to continue the policies that have left them behind. Children who receive sex education delay sexual activity longer than those who don’t, yet conservatives oppose it. Every other industrialized country in the world has UHC, spends less on healthcare and has better results, yet conservatives fight against it. There does not seem to be any rational reasoning behind conservative thought. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/84 "2010-10-04T18:22:09Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > > [@Lobohan](#): > > > > It is an observable fact that first world universal health care systems work better than ours. > > Are you kidding? It’s just another transfer payment. It doesn’t “work better” if you’re one of the people at the top, now does it? It doesn’t work better if you’re one of the citizens that have sufficient health care and are happy with it, now does it? Actually it does. Other countries spend much less than the US does on healthcare and have better results. But that’s a fact, so will not stand a chance against uninformed opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/85 "2010-10-04T18:23:43Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > > > SDMB liberals are all too happy to count Socialists among their members instead of smacking them around with an anti-ignorance stick. > > Obama’s a member of SDMB? > Just what is it you call a ‘socialist’, **Chessic**? > I’m thinking anybody to the left of Chuck Norrist? Are you kidding? You don’t have to look very hard. There is no shortage of posters that will state flat-out that they’re socialists. I don’t have the time to do a good search, but I dug up at least BrainGlutton and HappyLenderveder at the least. In [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=551314&highlight=political) poll, 11% report themselves as “extremely liberal”. > [@Lobohan](#): > > Why don’t we make this thread about a more general stupidity on the conservative side, not your particular brand, kay? There are hundreds (I’m sure) of health care threads out there. Because if there are hundreds of health care threads out there, then there must be hundreds _of thousands_ of “conservatives are stupid” threads out there. In the Pit, it’s “Conservatives are assholes!” In GD, it’s “Conservatives: Jerks or just plain stupid?” In GQ, it’s “Why are conservatives so evil?” In IMHO, it’s “Is this finally the end of the GOP?” So how about we make this thread about how liberals are naive weaklings without a shred of personal responsibility or discipline that repeatedly fail to be productive members of society, eh? How about we do that? I like this place. I really do. But no matter how hard I try sometimes to right the ship, it just keeps taking on the waters of liberalism. I’m not ready to hop a lifeboat yet, though. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/86 "2010-10-04T18:25:52Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > > Thanks for proving my point. It doesn’t matter how manny people share an opinion, it’s still an opinion, not a fact. And scientific topics deserve special treatment, as I’ve discussed at length elsewhere. > > > > My point stands–you call others stupid while you believe that “Keynesian economics” etc are facts, which is a much more basic and fundamental form of stupidity than just beimg wrong on a specific issue (such as your dad is with evolution). > > Consensus is the fact we’re talking about retard. I know you feel like you really have one here. But you don’t. > > I notice that instead of dealing with the troubling reality that the ideological side you identify with is full of utter banal stupidity and bereft of a solid thought all you can do is pretend to have the goods on me. 😃 > > Rand Rover. I’m sorry I made you look stupid. But all I did was shine a light. You’re the one that reflected it. You’re still wrong. The existence of a consensus on an issue is a matter of opinion, not fact. There is no objective test that can be used to determine whether economists agree that stimulus is necessary (or any of the other items in your list) because of all the judgments that must be made (ie, who is an economist, what exact Ly is the issue, and what exactly does any particular economist think of that issue). And the larger point you are now demonstrationg that you misunderstand is whether a consensus is important. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/87 "2010-10-04T18:32:38Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > > Thanks for proving my point. It doesn’t matter how manny people share an opinion, it’s still an opinion, not a fact. And scientific topics deserve special treatment, as I’ve discussed at length elsewhere. > > > > My point stands–you call others stupid while you believe that “Keynesian economics” etc are facts, which is a much more basic and fundamental form of stupidity than just beimg wrong on a specific issue (such as your dad is with evolution). > > Consensus is the fact we’re talking about retard. I know you feel like you really have one here. But you don’t. > > I notice that instead of dealing with the troubling reality that the ideological side you identify with is full of utter banal stupidity and bereft of a solid thought all you can do is pretend to have the goods on me. 😃 > > Rand Rover. I’m sorry I made you look stupid. But all I did was shine a light. You’re the one that reflected it. You’re still wrong. The existence of a consensus on an issue is a matter of opinion, not fact. There is no objective test that can be used to determine whether economists agree that stimulus is necessary (or any of the other items in your list) because of all the judgments that must be made (ie, who is an economist, what exact Ly is the issue, and what exactly does any particular economist think of that issue). And the larger point you are now demonstrationg that you misunderstand is whether a consensus is important. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/88 "2010-10-04T18:41:33Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > > > Are you kidding? It’s just another transfer payment. It doesn’t “work better” if you’re one of the people at the top, now does it? It doesn’t work better if you’re one of the citizens that have sufficient health care and are happy with it, now does it? > > Actually it does. Other countries spend much less than the US does on healthcare and have better results. But that’s a fact, so will not stand a chance against uninformed opinion. Nope. “Spending less” involves allocating costs to activities, which is a matter of opinion. Determining whether one thing is “better” than another is obviously a matter of opinion. The biggere point here is this: why do liberals (at least on the SDMB) seemingly always want to elevate their opinions to facts? Why can’t they just argue on a policy level (ie, that the country should do x because it would be better for y reasons)? Why do they have to use such specious reasoning to try to paint their opponents as “denyig facts”? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/89 "2010-10-04T18:41:44Z")
If there is one thing this thread is doing well, it’s providing plenty of examples that stupidity isn’t limited to any one segment of the ideological spectrum. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/90 "2010-10-04T18:57:29Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > When you look at the drug, crime, STD, single-parent and abortion statistics, and at the way people dress, talk and behave these days, and when you look at the size and scope of government compared with just a few decades ago, there is no doubt whatsoever that liberalism has been the dominant hegemonic force in the U.S. over the last forty years or so. Oh just SHUT UP about it already. We know – liberals have been destroying the U.S. since the sixties. All right? We get it. Now come back when you have something new to say. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/91 "2010-10-04T19:04:57Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > > > IT’S NOT EVEN CORRELATION! You’re not getting it. To show correlation, you need to show a systematic relationship over the span of two distributions. You’re pointing to two (or three?) single points which you’ve selected and looking at the rate. That’s not correlation, dipshit. > > > > For example, following your links, I see that San Luis Obispo, which historically votes GOP, has a rate of personal belief exemption that is twice the state rate. Since you’re arguing from a pointilistic orientation, we have no idea of knowing whether your individually hand-selected anecdotal bits or mine are any better than one another. > > Okay - we can take another tack on this entirely. > > [Robert F. Kennedy Jr’s. anti-vaccination manifesto.](http://www.robertfkennedyjr.com/articles/2005_june_16.html) You really are functionally retarded on this issue, aren’t you? I don’t know what else I can do to try to educate you about handpicking co-incident examples and how that is not at all the same as correlation. Nor does it help to support your original assertion. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/92 "2010-10-04T19:16:52Z")
How is this handpicking - Robert F. Kennedy Jr. can’t be considered to be a liberal who is coincidentally anti-vax. He is one of the leaders of the anti-vax movement, such as it is. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/93 "2010-10-04T19:19:11Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > > [@yojimbo](#): > > > > Your opinion is obviously different than mine but to not recognise that your side is at the very least been equal in blame for the current political climate of obstruction and vilification shows your complete one sided view with regard to politics and leads people to dismiss possible valuable input you may have. > > No, no, I think you’ve missed his point. > > > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > > > So the result, as is usually the case when liberalism predominates, is one of unintended consequences. When you shut down debate and the give-and-take that goes with it, you create a atmosphere where the other side is driven to extremes in order to combat you. > > You see, not only are your actions your fault, but their actions are your fault, too. I would say it’s more like their **re** actions are your fault too. Look, once upon a time in this country people dressed in suits and ties and dresses and behaved with a certain civil decorum when out in public. That is what made discussion on shows like Buckley’s possible. Nowadays it’s every man for himself, and without the constraining effect of civil societal mores people are much more free to act like assholes. And so they do. So many, in fact, that assholism has become commonplace and the result is that it drives people to political extremes. So yes, it is very much the fault of liberals that so many conservatives behave the way they do these days. A sinking tide lowers all ships and all that. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Oh just SHUT UP about it already. We know – liberals have been destroying the U.S. since the sixties. All right? We get it. At last! > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Now come back when you have something new to say. How come you guys get to play “conservatives are teh stupid” over and over and over again, all day long, week in and week out, month after month, but I only get to refute it once? Hardly seems fair somehow… ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/94 "2010-10-04T19:21:06Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Can I see a right-wing board shouting down anti-AGW? No. But I don’t see the SDMB shouting down socialists either. SDMB liberals are all too happy to count Socialists among their members instead of smacking them around with an anti-ignorance stick. Global Climate change is a scientific theory that is accepted by the vast, vast majority of scientists who work in the field of climate science. It is supported by a tremendously large amount of observed evidence, from a wide variety of disciplines. Socialism is a political system that is used successfully in a range of countries, particularly in Europe. These countries seem to be doing OK economically - there is no danger of imminent collapse. The term “socialism” is currently used in the United Sense in a purely pejorative sense, often by those who have little grasp of its true meaning. These two things are not comparable. Denial of global climate change flies in the fact of scientific consensus. There is no consensus about the viability of socialist ideals. Indeed, there are many “socialist” programs in the United States that seem to have fairly wide support (Medicare, Social Security) ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/95 "2010-10-04T19:24:46Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Ha–I actually agree with both of these posts. I think SA is right about how liberals (and Lobo) debate issues, but I don’t see the application to Evolution. I think maybe SA’s point suffers from insufficient distinction between fiscal and social conservatives. I think you’re probably right. I tend to view the difference between liberals and conservatives as primarily a social one, and to view fiscal conservatives who are socially liberal as little different from liberals as a whole, except that when it come to economic matters they’re a little more constrained. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/96 "2010-10-04T19:31:32Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Has it ever occurred to you that the right in this country is simply not allowed to engage in the debate? Evolution is not a “right” or “left” issue. Fiscal policy, foreign policy, matters of what importance to place on things, those are matters of “right” and “left.” Evolution is simply a list of facts. Ignorance is not a point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/97 "2010-10-04T19:38:25Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Evolution is not a “right” or “left” issue… I was talking about the debate between liberal ideas and conservative ideas in general, as per **Lobohan’s** comments from the OP: > [@](#): > > **Lobohan** : Here’s the thing, I think there should be conservatives in the debate. I think liberalism without a conservative check could go too far. But the right in America isn’t about debate any more. It’s about histrionics and brainwashing. Instead of debating what to do about Global Warming they pretend it doesn’t exist. Instead of debating what to do about immigration they stomp their feet and scream that no progress will be had until we have a fence. Instead of accepting science they deny it so it can lever in their bullshit, unconstitutional desire for a state religion. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/98 "2010-10-04T19:44:49Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > How come you guys get to play “conservatives are teh stupid” over and over and over again, all day long, week in and week out, month after month, but I only get to refute it once? Hardly seems fair somehow… You’re right…but it’s hardly our fault that you can’t tell the difference between “refute” and “confirm”. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/99 "2010-10-04T19:52:38Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > How is this handpicking - Robert F. Kennedy Jr. can’t be considered to be a liberal who is coincidentally anti-vax. He is one of the leaders of the anti-vax movement, such as it is. So is Brittany Speers. You made the claim that there’s a link between a liberal orientation and being anti-vax. Your efforts to support that claim have regressed from citing the level of vaccinations in three selected communities to pointing to the opinions of one person. I know that you very often like to think in terms of tu quoque style arguments, but this is fucking ridiculous. In case you really are this feeble: just because one person with a given quality or characteristic believes something, it doesn’t mean that all, or even most, people with that same quality or characteristic will also believe that same thing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/100 "2010-10-04T19:55:11Z")
I won’t defend the anti-evolution nuts, but hows about a little person responsibility on the FIL’s part? He’s an educated man, with an Engineering degree, belonging to a religion that is perfectly OK with evolution. He has no excuse for falling for right-wing clap trap about evolution. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977.md?page=6)