# Fuck You Conservative Stupid-Making Machine **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 4, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977 "2010-10-04T05:12:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/101 "2010-10-04T19:58:39Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > In case you really are this feeble: just because one person with a given quality or characteristic believes something, it doesn’t mean that all, or even most, people with that same quality or characteristic will also believe that same thing. To be fair, it seem that **Mr. Moto** is considering Kennedy to be a prominent “liberal” person, so this is why he is using him as an example. Really though, **Mr. Moto** needs to show that the Anti-Vax opinions of Kennedy move beyond a personal level and extend to party policy. Are there any examples of bills sponsored, or official speeches given by Kennedy that support an Anti-vax viewpoint? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/102 "2010-10-04T20:03:41Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > > > In case you really are this feeble: just because one person with a given quality or characteristic believes something, it doesn’t mean that all, or even most, people with that same quality or characteristic will also believe that same thing. > > To be fair, it seem that **Mr. Moto** is considering Kennedy to be a prominent “liberal” person, so this is why he is using him as an example. Really though, **Mr. Moto** needs to show that the Anti-Vax opinions of Kennedy move beyond a personal level and extend to party policy. Are there any examples of bills sponsored, or official speeches given by Kennedy that support an Anti-vax viewpoint? Robert F. Kennedy Jr has never held elective office. Liberals haven’t voted for him. How could he give official speeches that reflect any party policy or platform? How could he sponsor any bills? How does he represent liberals other than by presumably being one himself? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/103 "2010-10-04T20:17:43Z")
What?? You mean that he’s not a spokesperson for a party? He’s just a guy with a stupid opinion about vaccinations? Gosh! Then what is **Mr. Moto** going on about? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/104 "2010-10-04T20:22:02Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > > [@Mr.Moto](#): > > > > How is this handpicking - Robert F. Kennedy Jr. can’t be considered to be a liberal who is coincidentally anti-vax. He is one of the leaders of the anti-vax movement, such as it is. > > So is Brittany Speers. > > You made the claim that there’s a link between a liberal orientation and being anti-vax. Your efforts to support that claim have regressed from citing the level of vaccinations in three selected communities to pointing to the opinions of one person. I know that you very often like to think in terms of tu quoque style arguments, but this is fucking ridiculous. > > In case you really are this feeble: just because one person with a given quality or characteristic believes something, it doesn’t mean that all, or even most, people with that same quality or characteristic will also believe that same thing. Except that the only thing I was saying was that there were some people who had that characteristic who felt that way. They were cited in that piece in the Atlantic and they are personified in Robert F. Kennedy Jr. And since all I was saying in my first post is that people worldwide believe absurd things from time to time, this didn’t seem to be the most controversial thing to assert. I wasn’t saying that most liberals in Berkeley or Boulder were anti-vax, just that the sentiment was a little thicker on the ground there. And that is so - it was enough to inspire the Atlantic article, it is borne out by data on the ground there. At no time have I asserted that this made up a majority or plurality view in the liberal community. That clearly isn’t so. But it is just as clear that the view is present to some degree. You can see in my post that I don’t feel this is terribly important wherever it happens - it just happens. You are insisting on evidence I am simply not interested in looking up. It is enough for me that some liberals believe what they do just as some conservatives believe what they do. And note, that isn’t to excuse those beliefs. I’m not interested in doing that, though you seem to be leaping through hoops to prove that liberals can’t possibly have an incorrect thought. Content yourself that you’ve won, if you must. It sure seems to be important to you. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/105 "2010-10-04T20:24:00Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Nonsense. It’s simply undeniable that there is a concerted effort to combat evolution going on in America today. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/106 "2010-10-04T20:28:28Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The difference between the fringe on the left and the fringe on the right, is that on the right, the fringe\* is actually in charge\*. How many conservatives deny evolution again? > > And to the point he’s been listening to cousin O’Reily, Beck, Savage, Levin and Limbaugh. You know, Clothy if you actually were informed about… well anything… you’d be a lot more effective at arguing your points. Lobo, I am very informed. If you simply opened your mind and thought about things instead of spouting liberal talking points, you would have known that by now. Conservatives don’t deny evolution. Religious whackjobs do. They are not conservative by any stretch of the non-liberal imagination. They are the Cousin Lennys and they do NOT speak for the majority. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/107 "2010-10-04T20:33:03Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > > > Nonsense. It’s simply undeniable that there is a concerted effort to combat evolution going on in America today. > > Cite? You’re so uninformed you can use it as a weapon. Do you require a cite that the Earth is round? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/108 "2010-10-04T20:37:11Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Conservatives don’t deny evolution. Religious whackjobs do. They are not conservative by any stretch of the non-liberal imagination. They are the Cousin Lennys and they do NOT speak for the majority. This study From the [Pew Research Centre](http://people-press.org/report/254/religion-a-strength-and-weakness-for-both-parties) says you are wrong- Most conservatives DO in fact deny evolution. > [@](#): > > Nearly six-in-ten conservative Republicans believe that living things have always existed in their present form, while just 11% say that evolution occurred through natural processes. Among liberal Democrats, by contrast, only 29% hold the creationist position, while a plurality (44%) accepts the natural selection theory of evolution. This site also tends to disagree with you: [Public acceptance of Evolution](http://www.oeaw.ac.at/klivv/evolution/1_Public_Acceptance.htm) > [@](#): > > Christian fundamentalists are politically powerful and have been supported by former President G.W. Bush and the Republican party. Thus, Gallup polls find that most (60%) Republicans reject evolution, whereas most (60%) Democrats and (62%) Independents do not. \*\* Most Republicans Reject Evolution.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/109 "2010-10-04T20:41:18Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > > [@Lobohan](#): > > > > The difference between the fringe on the left and the fringe on the right, is that on the right, the fringe\* is actually in charge\*. How many conservatives deny evolution again? > > > > And to the point he’s been listening to cousin O’Reily, Beck, Savage, Levin and Limbaugh. You know, Clothy if you actually were informed about… well anything… you’d be a lot more effective at arguing your points. > > Lobo, I am very informed. If you simply opened your mind and thought about things instead of spouting liberal talking points, you would have known that by now. > > Conservatives don’t deny evolution. Religious whackjobs do. They are not conservative by any stretch of the non-liberal imagination. They are the Cousin Lennys and they do NOT speak for the majority. Lawls. You’re simply the stupidest member of this board now that Aigonz is gone. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/110 "2010-10-04T20:42:05Z")
38% of Democrats reject evolution, huh? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/111 "2010-10-04T20:46:10Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Conservatives don’t deny evolution. Religious whackjobs do. They are not conservative by any stretch of the non-liberal imagination. They are the Cousin Lennys and they do NOT speak for the majority. You know, I think you’re right: these _aren’t_ the droids I’m looking for. Move along! ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/112 "2010-10-04T20:50:44Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [REPORT: Grand Old Deniers — Nearly All GOP Senate Candidates Deny Global Warming](http://thinkprogress.org/2010/09/13/warming-deniers-gop-caucus/) > > > [@](#): > > > > A comprehensive Wonk Room survey of the Republican candidates for the U.S. Senate finds that nearly all dispute the scientific consensus that the United States must act to fight global warming pollution. Remarkably, of the dozens of Republicans vying for the 37 Senate seats in the 2010 election, only one — Rep. Mike Castle of Delaware — supports strong climate action. Even former climate advocates Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) and Rep. Mark Kirk (R-IL) now toe the science-doubting party line. > > Have the Libs endorsed any flat earthers or geocentrists this round, or is the party pushed crazy pretty firmly biased to the right this year? > There’s always ‘some people’ with crazy mentation, it gets worrisome though when entire political parties embrace the crazy as is happening now. That name jumped out at me- Mike Castle of Delaware was defeated in his primary, so unless someone’s had a change of heart, every Republican Senate candidate now disputes evolution. > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Are you kidding? You don’t have to look very hard. There is no shortage of posters that will state flat-out that they’re socialists. I don’t have the time to do a good search, but I dug up at least BrainGlutton and HappyLenderveder at the least. In [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=551314&highlight=political) poll, 11% report themselves as “extremely liberal”. OK, so we have your assertion that **BrainGlutton** and **HappyLenderveder** self-identify as socialists, devoid of a cite, and then you conflate “extremely liberal” and “socialist”. What do you think socialism is? I mean that as an honest question, not as a swipe; are you using the word “socialist” as a synonym for “extremely liberal”? > [@](#): > > I like this place. I really do. But no matter how hard I try sometimes to right the ship, it just keeps taking on the waters of liberalism. I’m not ready to hop a lifeboat yet, though. What? When has this place ever been anything but solidly left-of-center? You’re acting like this is something new around here. ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/113 "2010-10-04T20:53:39Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > > [@mr. Moto](#): > > > > three communities. My first concerned boulder - and did link the anti-vaccination movement there to alternative medicine and to the waldorf movement in a particular school with a very high rate of pbes. > > > > Also, frankly, there are very few conservatives in boulder and there is a whole lot of whooping cough. Correlation can’t be confused with causation, but it is correlation, which is all i was doing right from the start here. > > IT’S NOT EVEN CORRELATION! You’re not getting it. To show correlation, you need to show a systematic relationship over the span of two distributions. You’re pointing to two (or three?) single points which you’ve selected and looking at the rate. That’s not correlation, dipshit. > > For example, following your links, I see that San Luis Obispo, which historically votes GOP, has a rate of personal belief exemption that is twice the state rate. Since you’re arguing from a pointilistic orientation, we have no idea of knowing whether your individually hand-selected anecdotal bits or mine are any better than one another. And naturally SLO county ended up having the [the highest incidence of whooping cough cases in the state](https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.cdph.ca.gov/programs/immunize/Documents/PertussisReport9-28-2010.pdf). **Mr. Moto** , you get a fail for trying to apply ideology to the anti-vax position. I can only speak anecdotally, but the vast majority of those who skipped vaccination for their children in this county were right wing conservatives–of the fundamentalist Christian brand. They don’t trust the government, nor do they believe that government has a right to force vaccinations. Does this sound like a _liberal_ position? Didn’t think so either. I’ve run into this not only in California, but Virginia, North Carolina, and Nebraska (again, this is anecdotal). It’s absolutely horrifying to see the mixture of willful ignorance and risks that people are willing to take to believe a lie. I’ve had people tell me to my face that the HPV vaccine has killed hundreds of girls after being administered. When I asked them where they got the information, they said it came from their friends and right-wing Christian media. When I questioned that maybe they were wrong, and that maybe they should check more mainstream new sources or even talked to their doctor… bascially, they didn’t want to hear it. They _knew_ they were right. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/114 "2010-10-04T20:54:02Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > 38% of Democrats reject evolution, huh? Apparently so - a very high number indeed, especially when compared with results from other countries. I believe that evolution-denial numbers are the second highest in the USA, right behind Turkey. That is why you’d never catch me saying anything like: “All Democrats accept evolution as fact.” So when I read a blanket statement like “Conservatives don’t deny evolution”, I will post evidence to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/115 "2010-10-04T20:54:58Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > > [@Lobohan](#): > > > > The difference between the fringe on the left and the fringe on the right, is that on the right, the fringe\* is actually in charge\*. How many conservatives deny evolution again? > > > > And to the point he’s been listening to cousin O’Reily, Beck, Savage, Levin and Limbaugh. You know, Clothy if you actually were informed about… well anything… you’d be a lot more effective at arguing your points. > > Lobo, I am very informed. If you simply opened your mind and thought about things instead of spouting liberal talking points, you would have known that by now. > > Conservatives don’t deny evolution. Religious whackjobs do. They are not conservative by any stretch of the non-liberal imagination. They are the Cousin Lennys and they do NOT speak for the majority. From [here](http://www.religioustolerance.org/ev_publi.htm) (scroll to the very bottom of the page): > [@](#): > > Only 30% of Republicans believe in “evolution;” 68% do not. > 61% of independents believe in “evolution;” 37% do not. > 57% of Democrats believe in “evolution;” 40% do not. These numbers are from a 2007 Gallup poll. They are, frankly, hideously embarrassing across the spectrum, and a reflection of the dreadful science education in this country. But 68% of self-identified Republicans don’t believe in evolution. That’s a hell of a lot more than your random crazy uncles. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/116 "2010-10-04T20:58:02Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > > [@Lobohan](#): > > > > The difference between the fringe on the left and the fringe on the right, is that on the right, the fringe\* is actually in charge\*. How many conservatives deny evolution again? > > > > And to the point he’s been listening to cousin O’Reily, Beck, Savage, Levin and Limbaugh. You know, Clothy if you actually were informed about… well anything… you’d be a lot more effective at arguing your points. > > Lobo, I am very informed. If you simply opened your mind and thought about things instead of spouting liberal talking points, you would have known that by now. > > Conservatives don’t deny evolution. Religious whackjobs do. They are not conservative by any stretch of the non-liberal imagination. They are the Cousin Lennys and they do NOT speak for the majority. Your kilt is showing. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/117 "2010-10-04T21:00:48Z")
And another thing . . . Catholics do no accept the theory of evolution even though they say they do. Why? Because evolution is a purposeless process. Humans did not have to come into existence. If the earth was still conducive to big-ass lizards, then right now there would be no humans and a bunch of big-ass lizards. So, believing in evolution within the framework of Christianity just makes no sense whaÞsoever. What they really believe is that god chose to create humans using a slow process of small changes over time. That belief jives with all of the evidence for evolution, but it’s not evolution. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/118 "2010-10-04T21:04:45Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > > [@Clothahump](#): > > > > Lobo, I am very informed. If you simply opened your mind and thought about things instead of spouting liberal talking points, you would have known that by now. > > > > Conservatives don’t deny evolution. Religious whackjobs do. They are not conservative by any stretch of the non-liberal imagination. They are the Cousin Lennys and they do NOT speak for the majority. > > Your kilt is showing. Now, now. I’m sure he hits the conservative message boards heavily, telling such people that they are not conservative and that they are not welcome on those boards. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/119 "2010-10-04T21:07:09Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > And another thing . . . > > Catholics do no accept the theory of evolution even though they say they do. Why? Because evolution is a purposeless process. Humans did not have to come into existence. If the earth was still conducive to big-ass lizards, then right now there would be no humans and a bunch of big-ass lizards. So, believing in evolution within the framework of Christianity just makes no sense whaÞsoever. > > What they really believe is that god chose to create humans using a slow process of small changes over time. That belief jives with all of the evidence for evolution, but it’s not evolution. So what, you get to decide what evolution is? Here is what I believe - that the universe and the earth are both billions of years old, that in the last few million years life appeared on this planet and that it has taken many forms since then. Nothing in that, to my mind, precludes the existence of God. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977/120 "2010-10-04T21:15:55Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > **Most Republicans Reject Evolution.** And vice-versa. Evolution seems to reject most Republicans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-conservative-stupid-making-machine/555977.md?page=7)