# Fuck you Diogenes **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 3, 2004, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-diogenes/272717 "2004-11-03T10:48:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-diogenes/272717/121 "2004-11-05T16:54:46Z")
**Dio:** Be that as it may, Mr. Maher has done a piss-poor job of communicating that since I’ve been watching him on HBO (I never watched him when he was on regular network TV, but that was because of inconvenient timing). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-diogenes/272717/122 "2004-11-05T16:57:15Z")
Don’t equate anti-Bush with “liberal.” ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-diogenes/272717/123 "2004-11-05T17:04:42Z")
I fucked up a couple days ago and posted this to a different thread. Not verbatim, but it’s the same idea. **Dio** , I should have known this thread would take so many tangents, but I made my point and blew off my steam on this topic. Though some posts have been fun to watch. 😉 I’d apologize, but not only would I be lying, it would probably insult you as well. I know you understand the purpose and intent. And now, just for you, I’ll break out the sig for a rare appearence. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-diogenes/272717/124 "2004-11-05T17:16:28Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > I fucked up a couple days ago and posted this to a different thread. Not verbatim, but it’s the same idea. > > **Dio** , I should have known this thread would take so many tangents, but I made my point and blew off my steam on this topic. Though some posts have been fun to watch. 😉 > > I’d apologize, but not only would I be lying, it would probably insult you as well. I know you understand the purpose and intent. And now, just for you, I’ll break out the sig for a rare appearence. 😃 Strangely enough, I never for a second took this thread especially personally or took any offense to it. I pretty much took it as given that somebody would Pit me after election night so I took it in stride. No hard feelings here and no need for you to apologize. I could apologize for calling Bush Hitler, but I wouldn’t mean it an no one would believe me anyway so I take this thread in the same spirit. You were pissed when you started it. You’re not really pissed anymore but you’re not sorry either. I totally understand it. Life goes on. Oh…and fuck the Packers! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-diogenes/272717/125 "2004-11-05T17:21:17Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Oh…and fuck the Packers! 🆒 I’ve got half a notion of buying 2 tix to the game in that shithole you guys call a stadium just to be there personally to see the distraught look on your face when we bitchslap you again. Man, Minnesota plays in an indoor stadium in December. Tagliabue needs a dressing down for allowing this. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-diogenes/272717/126 "2004-11-05T19:55:59Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Don’t equate anti-Bush with “liberal.” Good point. Liberal is a subset of anti-Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-diogenes/272717/127 "2004-11-06T06:17:58Z")
> [@John Corrado](#): > > Cite? After looking at the references [here](http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat2.htm), I withdraw my “most of the killing” statement. Looks like it was only “a lot of the killing”. > [@John Corrado](#): > > My understanding is that most of the two million killed in Vietnam were killed by the Communist government after the U.S. abandoned the country. That’s not supported by the data. The death toll in Vietnam in 1973-1975 is put at 171,500. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-diogenes/272717/128 "2004-11-06T06:26:56Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > Good point. Liberal is a subset of anti-Bush. That’s true of both the political ideology and the Doper. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-diogenes/272717/129 "2004-11-06T06:27:51Z")
> [@Desmostylus](#): > > The holocaust killed, what, six million? Totally beside the point of this thread, but the Shoah claimed the lives of 11 million civilians . ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-diogenes/272717/130 "2004-11-06T08:41:40Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Totally beside the point of this thread, but the Shoah claimed the lives of 11 million civilians . Cite? I’ve never seen a figure over 6 million. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-diogenes/272717/131 "2004-11-06T08:47:22Z")
Did anyone else enter this thread with a firmly established opinion and then realize that _either_ side might actually be correct here? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-diogenes/272717/132 "2004-11-06T08:47:29Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Cite? I’ve never seen a figure over 6 million. Wow… I really am shocked… Don’t they teach this in school anymore? [Six million Jews, five million gentiles. That makes 11 million.](http://www2.sptimes.com/Holocaust_museum/11_million.html) ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-diogenes/272717/133 "2004-11-06T09:17:33Z")
It says: > [@](#): > > 11-million human beings had perished at the behest of Adolf Hitler’s dictatorship [between 1933 and 1945.] I’m guessing that that has to include non-holocaust deaths (such as WWII casualties, etc.) Provide further cites if I’m wrong because this one is somewhat :dubious:. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-diogenes/272717/134 "2004-11-06T09:22:51Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Wow… > I really am shocked… > Don’t they teach this in school anymore? And FWIW I went to K-12 in rural (meaning offensively underfunded) North Carolina. We didn’t study WWII. Period. I feel like the one-eyed man in the land of the blind just for knowing how to read (if guys only knew that I’m only half-joking…) I’m extremely proud of the education I’ve given myself since a very young age so :rolleyes: on your “they don’t teach this in school?”-type comments. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-diogenes/272717/135 "2004-11-06T10:50:42Z")
The Wikipedia entry puts it like this: > [@](#): > > [Holocaust](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust) > > **Death toll** > > The exact number of people killed by the Nazi regime is still subject to further research. Recently declassified British and Soviet documents have indicated the total may be somewhat higher than previously believed [[sup][1] [/sup]](http://www.jpost.com/com/Archive/20.May.1997/News/Article-2.html). However, the following estimates are considered to be highly reliable. > > The Nazis persecuted many groups of people deemed inferior to the Nazi Aryan ideal. The following estimates refer to groups that were actively singled out in Nazi ideology as being ‘unfit for life’ and were part of the Nazi’s planned and systematic genocide. > > 5.6 – 6.1 million Jews, including 3.0 – 3.5 million Polish Jews > 200 000 – 800 000 Roma & Sinti (“gypsies”) > 200 000 – 300 000 handicapped > 10 000 – 25 000 homosexuals > 2 000 Jehovah’s Witnesses > > "There is no precise figure for the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. The figure commonly used is the six million quoted by Adolf Eichmann, a senior SS official. Most research confirms that the number of victims was between five and six million. Early calculations range from 5.1 million (Professor Raul Hilberg) to 5.95 million (Jacob Leschinsky). More recent research, by Professor Yisrael Gutman and Dr. Robert Rozett in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, estimates the Jewish losses at 5.59-5.86 million, and a study headed by Dr. Wolfgang Benz presents a range from 5.29 million to six million. The main sources for these statistics are comparisons of prewar censuses with postwar censuses and population estimates. Nazi documentation containing partial data on various deportations and murders is also used. " From [Yad Vashem](http://www.yad-vashem.org.il/about_holocaust/faqs/answers/faq_3.html) > > Lucy Davidowicz used prewar census figures to estimate that 5.85 million Jews died. Using official census counts may cause an underestimate since many births and deaths were not recorded in small towns and villages. Another reason some consider her estimate too low is that many records were destroyed during the war. (Her book, The War Against the Jews has detailed listings by country of the number of Jews killed.) > > The following groups of people were also killed by the Nazi regime but there is little evidence that the Nazis planned to systematically target them for genocide as was the case for the groups above. > > 2.5 – 3.5 million non-Jewish Poles > 3.5 – 6 million other Slavic civilians > 2.5 – 4 million Soviet POWs > 1 – 1.5 million political dissidents ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-diogenes/272717/136 "2004-11-06T16:52:37Z")
I haven’t seen the DtC posts that spawned this pitting, but I have to say I find little to fault in his behavior/arguments in this thread. And **farmwoman,** I’m still very curious to see your answer to this question of his: > [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by Farmwoman > > ## My threshold is actually quite high. The policy of ‘personal grudge’ comes from your war room. > > Oh, so you think there were WMD? You think Iraq really was a threat to the US? > > Do you think Iraq had something to do with 9/11? > > What, pray tell, was the legitimate reason to kill 100,000 humans in Iraq? I still have yet to see ANYONE give me a good reason why 100,000 people had to die. And why the answer to the current mess there seems to be to make it 200,000. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-diogenes/272717/137 "2004-11-06T17:01:11Z")
> [@toadspittle](#): > > I haven’t seen the DtC posts that spawned this pitting, but I have to say I find little to fault in his behavior/arguments in this thread. How in the Hell would I be able to open this pitting for what he says in this thread? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-diogenes/272717/138 "2004-11-06T18:34:38Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Cite? I’ve never seen a figure over 6 million. Cite [http://www.holocaustforgotten.com/fivmil.htm](http://www.holocaustforgotten.com/fivmil.htm) ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-diogenes/272717/139 "2004-11-06T19:33:24Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > And FWIW I went to K-12 in rural (meaning offensively underfunded) North Carolina. We didn’t study WWII. Period\ so :rolleyes: on your “they don’t teach this in school?”-type comments. So a simple “No, they don’t teach this in school where I’m from.” would’ve sufficed? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-diogenes/272717/140 "2004-11-06T19:43:09Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > So a simple > “No, they don’t teach this in school where I’m from.” would’ve sufficed? Yes. They did not teach that in the schools I went to. You have no idea how old it gets to constantly hear people say things like " :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: You didn’t read Shakespeare in the literature lounge near the science lab next to the swimming pool not far from where drumline practiced?!!!" [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-diogenes/272717.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-diogenes/272717.md?page=8)