# Fuck you for cutting corners, American Crushing & Recycling **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 31, 2005, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-for-cutting-corners-american-crushing-recycling/314960 "2005-07-31T02:07:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-for-cutting-corners-american-crushing-recycling/314960/21 "2005-08-01T15:44:04Z")
Correct me if I’m wrong, but are you saying that “catastophic parts-shedding” could maybe have been predicted by a pre-trip inspection, and so the accident wouldn’t have happened **danceswithcats**? That’s what I understand you to be saying at least, that the driver may bear some responsibility if the failures could have been detected by looking the brakes over beforehand, and refusing to operate the vehicle? ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-for-cutting-corners-american-crushing-recycling/314960/22 "2005-08-01T16:10:20Z")
> [@paperbackwriter](#): > > (emphasis added) > > It’s becoming more and more clear that American Crushing and Recycling’s trucks were _not_ well-maintained and inspected. See the article **KSO** linked to. > > Be dubious all you want, I (an hundreds of others) saw the brake parts on the road. That certainly looks like catastophic parts-shedding. Not excusing any poor maintenance but… The loads on many braking parts in even a passenger car are almost beyond imagination, in a heavy truck they are orders of magnitude higher. The one closeup shot looked to me like part of a brake drum. Even with the heavier duty compnents a catastrophic failure of one major component of one brake could shatter the brake drum and leave it and other parts of the brake assembly on that wheel scattered over a wide area. That in itself should not prevent the whole truck from stopping in a reasonable distance. I would wonder just how much CDL experience this driver had before his one week with this company. If this was a brand new driver his own poor decisions could have contributed immensely to the quantity of the destruction involved. In my EMT days I had an ambulance lose a power steering pulley as I was starting a right turn rolling through a green light. I couldn’t turn the and since I was accellerating out of the turn barely managed to stop inches from the side of a car waiting to make a left turn towards me when his turn came. Not something a morning pre-trip would catch, especially 9 hours and 7 calls into a 24 hour shift, driven by a 19 year old out to save the world singlehandedly. ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-for-cutting-corners-american-crushing-recycling/314960/23 "2005-08-01T16:43:20Z")
[Link](http://www.ct.gov/dmv/cwp/view.asp?a=805&Q=244788&dmvPNavCtr=%7C28053%7C#28064) > [@](#): > > You will be evaluated on the following items: > > - Pre-trip Inspection > - Static Course > - On the Road Test > > Failure of any part of the skills test will result in a failure of the entire skills test Of course this should settle that the driver shares the blame [Link](http://www.irmb.state.ct.us/new/inspection.htm) > [@](#): > > In Part 396.1, the DOT mandates that “every motor carrier, its officers, drivers, agents, representatives, and employees directly concerned with the inspection or maintenance of motor vehicle shall comply and be conversant with the rules of this part.” Be sure each driver has a copy of the FMCSR handbook (or access to a copy). Drivers need to be familiar, not only with Part 396, but also with all parts of the regulations that are applicable to their duties and responsibilities. Include in each Driver Qualification file a receipt or acknowledgement form stating that the driver received, read, and understood the FMCSR handbook or received appropriate training.- > [@](#): > > 396.13 Driver Pre-Trip Inspection Click the link to get a better idea of what is said. Its a shame that it happened and I am sure the company shares a lot of the blame but the driver is not without blame. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-for-cutting-corners-american-crushing-recycling/314960/24 "2005-08-01T17:03:44Z")
> [@LostGoals](#): > > Of course this should settle that the driver shares the blame No, it doesn’t settle that. Not at all. In order for the driver to share the blame, it would have to be shown that the malfunction _would have been detectable via a pre-trip inspection_. Until that’s been shown, you can’t blame the driver. ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-for-cutting-corners-american-crushing-recycling/314960/25 "2005-08-01T17:28:25Z")
Short of someone sabotaging his truck the inspection he is required to do should of caught the problem, in the vast majority of cases. > [@](#): > > What to look for > Bad Brake Drums or Shoes > • Cracked drums > • Shoes or pads with oil, grease, or brake fluid on them. > • Shoes worn dangerously thin, missing, or broken [PDF link](http://www.revenue.state.co.us/mv_dir/formspdf/2251.pdf) Sorry he shares the blame. And if he doesn’t share the blame neither does the company, it would be a manufactured part problem non-detectable. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-for-cutting-corners-american-crushing-recycling/314960/26 "2005-08-01T17:45:23Z")
> [@LostGoals](#): > > Short of someone sabotaging his truck the inspection he is required to do should of caught the problem, in the vast majority of cases. > [PDF link](http://www.revenue.state.co.us/mv_dir/formspdf/2251.pdf) > > Sorry he shares the blame. And if he doesn’t share the blame neither does the company, it would be a manufactured part problem non-detectable. That doesn’t even make sense. You’re conflating two levels of inspections. The driver is required to do a pre trip; the carrier (the trucking company; the industry term for them is “carrier”) is required to have a preventive maintenance program. The level of work and inspection that goes into a truck, and its brake assembly, in the shop is a hell of a lot greater than a pre-trip. Many brake problems that would NOT be detectable on a pre-trip inspection could be picked up by maintenance. So it is quite possible that the problem that caused this accident was not apparent in a pre trip, but could have been avoided with a proper program of maintenance. Maybe it was partially the driver’s fault and maybe it wasn’t. Until you know what SPECIFIC fault caused brake failure, you don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-for-cutting-corners-american-crushing-recycling/314960/27 "2005-08-01T18:02:51Z")
> [@LostGoals](#): > > Your comment was like saying all accountants are like Arthur Anderson they try to hide money, shred documents before being discovered, and help cost investors and employees millions. What am I supposed to think when, as happened locally, the local truckers used their radios to warn their fellow truckers of the location of the mobile safety inspection station, and had one trucker shadowing the safety inspection team, reporting their current location. Many of the trucks that were inspected were grossly overloaded and had bad brakes and tires. ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-for-cutting-corners-american-crushing-recycling/314960/28 "2005-08-01T18:09:15Z")
> [@Zabali\_Clawbane](#): > > Reading the rest of the post your quote came from, and putting it in context, I would say **DWC** is not dubious, he’s speaking to another person who expressed skepticism. If so, I apologize for any inferrance that I was calling out **Dances** for ridicule. ---
**Author:** ![rexnervous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@rexnervous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rexnervous)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-for-cutting-corners-american-crushing-recycling/314960/29 "2005-08-01T23:03:05Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > Not excusing any poor maintenance but… > > The loads on many braking parts in even a passenger car are almost beyond imagination, in a heavy truck they are orders of magnitude higher. The one closeup shot looked to me like part of a brake drum. Even with the heavier duty compnents a catastrophic failure of one major component of one brake could shatter the brake drum and leave it and other parts of the brake assembly on that wheel scattered over a wide area. That in itself should not prevent the whole truck from stopping in a reasonable distance. The problem is with that location there isn’t any reasonable stopping distance. It’s a long (1/2 to 1 mile) semi-steep curving grade, where it’s quite easy to hit 60-plus even though that’s not safe. It only goes flat at best 150 yards from the stoplight. > [@drachillix](#): > > I would wonder just how much CDL experience this driver had before his one week with this company. If this was a brand new driver his own poor decisions could have contributed immensely to the quantity of the destruction involved. We probably won’t know for a couple of months, but I doubt the newness of the driver from a CDL perspective contributed to it. However, there’s been some small speculation that he wasn’t all that familiar with the road itself. (Then again, maybe that is from a CDL perspective - I’m sure they’re taught to drive carefully on unknown roads). It also seems pretty apparent (from the somewhat meager evidence) that the driver knew the shit had hit the fan, but he did what he could to avoid tragedy. It just didn’t work. From my earlier post: > [@rexnervous](#): > > What’s so sad about this is that from reports the driver knew his brakes were blown, and so he veered into the oncoming lane (knowing that it was a red light) to avoid the cars stopped in front of him, and then after passing them tried to veer back into the lanes he was supposed to be in, but the force of the turn caused the truck to overturn. Right into the cars in the opposing lane stopped at the light. Anyway - I suppose from some standpoint I understand why some of you say the driver shares the blame - but by God does that seem unfair compared to a) the egregiousness of the company itself, and b) how the driver died. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-for-cutting-corners-american-crushing-recycling/314960/30 "2005-08-02T00:14:39Z")
> [@Zabali\_Clawbane](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but are you saying that “catastophic parts-shedding” could maybe have been predicted by a pre-trip inspection, and so the accident wouldn’t have happened **danceswithcats**? That’s what I understand you to be saying at least, that the driver may bear some responsibility if the failures could have been detected by looking the brakes over beforehand, and refusing to operate the vehicle? That is exactly what I’m saying. It is one thing if I’m the only driver of a vehicle-in that scenario I’ll do my lights and fluids daily, and get down and dirty every other day or weekly, depending on whether I’ve been doing flatlands or the hill course. If it’s a pool vehicle, a rental, or otherwise, I take my time every day, particularly on brakes. After 30+ years as a firefighter and former EMT/paramedic, I’ve seen the other side of deferred maintenance and shallow pre-trips. Many of the NTSB reports that I’ve read over the years involving large trucks/buses indicate brake adjustment out of range as being directly causal, among other defects which would have been identified, had a full pre-trip been performed, and had the operator taken a stand for safety. It takes conviction to walk into the super or traffic manager’s office and tell him or her, “I’m not gonna drive it, because it’s not safe.” Been there. Done that. No offense taken **paperbackwriter**. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-for-cutting-corners-american-crushing-recycling/314960/31 "2005-08-02T04:10:10Z")
> [@LostGoals](#): > > Short of someone sabotaging his truck the inspection he is required to do should of caught the problem, in the vast majority of cases. > [PDF link](http://www.revenue.state.co.us/mv_dir/formspdf/2251.pdf) > > Sorry he shares the blame. And if he doesn’t share the blame neither does the company, it would be a manufactured part problem non-detectable. Your link is all hosed up, the items you list are on page 9, but on page 14 where it talks about the walk around the it tells the driver to check the condition of the brake hoses and drums. Furthermore unless truck drum brakes are way way different then what was used on a car (Other than size of course) there is no way in hell for anybody to inspect the lining condition without pulling a brake drum. This is no simple matter, and should not be expected in a daily walk around. So unless it comes out that there was visible signs of a problem that a driver could reasonably be expected to find, I am not going to yell at the driver too much. Particularly since he has already paid a pretty heavy price already. **Dances** I call bullshit. A pre-trip cannot find all the reasons that a truck might start shedding parts. Don’t forget the driver had only worked there for one week, so he was probably ignorant of the past history of the rig he was assigned that day. Here is one example what I am talking about. The pre-trip tells the driver to inspect the lug nuts for tightness. He does this, and finds them all tight. The backstory (what he does not know) is that this rig had the lugs loosen up a while back, and a several of them broke. The shop only replaced the broken ones. The problem is that the breaking of lug studs overstress the remaining and weakens the hell out of them. There is no way in hell that on a pre-trip the driver could be expected to spot visually the overstressed, and about to break studs. If enough of the studs break, guess what fall off the truck? Or perhaps a wheel bearing is failing. If the wheel bearing fails you can also loose a wheel. Unless you are a way better mechanic than I am you are not going to find a failing wheel bearing by looking at it as you walk by. I do agree that a properly maintained vehicle does not go around shedding parts. The catch here is that is obvious that the truck in question was not properly maintained. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-for-cutting-corners-american-crushing-recycling/314960/32 "2005-08-02T13:16:59Z")
I don’t know, **IF** the problems with the brakes could have been detected by a pre-trip inspection, than I’d say the driver paid for his own lack of conviction very heavily. That doesn’t absolve him of his part in the accident though. Thing is, it’s not known yet how it happened, the driver might not have been able to spot the problems. I agree that the owner of the company should have heavy penalties levied, including prison time. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-for-cutting-corners-american-crushing-recycling/314960/33 "2005-08-02T13:30:11Z")
> [@Zabali\_Clawbane](#): > > I agree that the owner of the company should have heavy penalties levied, including prison time. Oh, this almost certainly _won’t_ happen. OSHA is one of the most neutered government organizations around; they’ll bend over backwards to avoid filing criminal charges against a company and the largest fine they can levy is, for a large business, trifling. Expect to see the owner of the company pay a fine, maybe get hit with some civil suits, and come out of it with his life and business intact. Unlike the people he killed. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-for-cutting-corners-american-crushing-recycling/314960/34 "2005-08-02T13:46:15Z")
I would think that the prosecutor would have a case, especially considering that there is evidence that he ignored safety by putting undriveable vehicles on the road frequently. Why would OSHA be the only one that could pursue him? I’d hope that there are statutes in place that the DA could put into play? 😕 Please, explain why it would be only OSHA if that is the case? ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-for-cutting-corners-american-crushing-recycling/314960/35 "2005-08-02T14:44:59Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Oh, this almost certainly _won’t_ happen. OSHA is one of the most neutered government organizations around; they’ll bend over backwards to avoid filing criminal charges against a company and the largest fine they can levy is, for a large business, trifling. > > Expect to see the owner of the company pay a fine, maybe get hit with some civil suits, and come out of it with his life and business intact. Unlike the people he killed. I disagree. This case has the right amount of horror to bring the ole justice hammer down hard. What makes it even more likely is that this guy is unusually shifty (one company gets shut down for shoddy equipment so he starts another with same equipment). Nope. This guy is going to pay. Admittedly not as hard as the driver did, but hard nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-for-cutting-corners-american-crushing-recycling/314960/36 "2005-08-02T15:37:16Z")
I’m not saying it won’t happen, but I’d be surprised if the owner of the company is brought to justice and gets convicted of murder or some other really serious felony. The NY Times did a _great_ series on OSHA a year or two ago; the first [article](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10810FB395B0C728EDDAB0994DB404482) followed a somewhat similiar case: A company whose owner had repeatedly disregarded safety regulations and had been repeatedly fine lost a worker in a completely preventable trenching accident. Their punishment? A $54,000 fine and they didn’t have to admit any wrongdoing. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-for-cutting-corners-american-crushing-recycling/314960/37 "2005-08-02T15:41:30Z")
The difference in this case being, not just an employee of the company was affected, this owner’s (willful, repeated) disregard of safety regulations brought about the deaths of public citizens who weren’t employed by him, damaged the roadway, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-for-cutting-corners-american-crushing-recycling/314960/38 "2005-08-02T15:45:38Z")
> [@Zabali\_Clawbane](#): > > The difference in this case being, not just an employee of the company was affected, this owner’s (willful, repeated) disregard of safety regulations brought about the deaths of public citizens who weren’t employed by him, damaged the roadway, etc. I think it’s pretty sad that that makes a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-for-cutting-corners-american-crushing-recycling/314960/39 "2005-08-02T15:47:08Z")
I agree. ☹ Though, it does make me a little less disgusted to hold out hope that the cretin who runs the company will pay for his actions with hard prison time. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-for-cutting-corners-american-crushing-recycling/314960/40 "2005-08-02T22:54:49Z")
He’ll never see the inside of a prison. However, he will be civilly sued into his constituent atoms. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-for-cutting-corners-american-crushing-recycling/314960.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-for-cutting-corners-american-crushing-recycling/314960.md?page=3)