# Fuck you Ford. $120 for a new key? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 16, 2008, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357 "2008-12-16T04:32:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/21 "2008-12-16T15:41:13Z")
> [@Black\_Sunshine](#): > > Couldn’t they just make one without the chip so I can open my door if I lock my keys in the car? That’s what I’m most worried about. I wouldn’t even need it to start the car. Yes they can. Any correctly coded key will open the door, only the chip key will interface with the ignition. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/22 "2008-12-16T15:43:41Z")
I have a 98 ford mustang and I got a new key at the local mall. I think the dealership is full of crap. Same deal, it has a chip in it. The mall put my old key in a reader there ($10) charge, and the got the new key made for another $75 bones. A complete screw job at $85, but still a little less. ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/23 "2008-12-16T16:06:03Z")
Oh, how I love my Jeep. Sure it’s 10 yrs old and has 160,000 miles. But it’s paid for, it runs great, everything works, has no rust, and I just bought a replacement key at Fleet Farm for $2.10 I’m driving this sucker til she won’t drive no more. ---
**Author:** ![mailman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8491ac/32.png) [@mailman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mailman)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/24 "2008-12-16T16:07:21Z")
My wife’s van has a key with a chip in it, and we lost the spare. It’s a Chevy, but we got the same sort of estimate from the dealership. I went to a local lock and key shop and sat there while he made the key for me. He first had to look up the key in some database, then make a blank which he checked to see if it would actually start the car. (It did, but with no chip inside the car turns itself off automatically after a minute or two.) Then he had to find the right key blank with the right sort of chip, and finally cut the key. Total time spent by the one guy: about fifteen minutes. Total cost to me: about forty bucks. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/25 "2008-12-16T16:32:33Z")
> [@UnwrittenNocturne](#): > > Try it sometime with a VW - we ended up paying some $800. That’s what I paid for a VW – not the key, the entire vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/26 "2008-12-16T16:40:02Z")
> [@Black\_Sunshine](#): > > Couldn’t they just make one without the chip so I can open my door if I lock my keys in the car? That’s what I’m most worried about. I wouldn’t even need it to start the car. I did that. I had a copy of the metal part made at the mall, the guy warned me it wouldn’t start my car (I knew that), I have it hidden under the chassis for those ocassions when the car locks itself (it’s not a bug, it’s a feature). So we have two working keys and a blank. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/27 "2008-12-16T18:23:57Z")
Just called a local locksmith. He can do it for $62.50. Still pricey, but nearly half of what the dealership wanted, and they don’t seem like assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/28 "2008-12-16T18:49:31Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > It didn´t take more than 20 mins. though, and part of that was waiting. What were you doing the rest of the time? ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/29 "2008-12-16T20:28:17Z")
Went to Apollo locksmith over lunch. They were quick, friendly, and did it right. It made me realize that I always have keys made and locks changed at the big box down the street and it’s a pain in the ass because the keys only work half the time, and once they broke a lock. The asswipes at Roseville Midway Ford have helped me find somewhere that I will happily be a repeat customer. Thanks asswipes! ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/30 "2008-12-16T21:10:50Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Former service advisor for Ford, Landrover and Mercedes checking in. > > The fact that keys NEED to be reprogrammed to the vehicle is not the fault of the dealer. Vehicles today have an increasing amount of software and electronics, and the ignition system is just another part of that. Keys no longer just turn in an ignition barrel, they also send and recieve vehicle specific data from the relevent control units in the vehicle itself. For the same reason you would not want the same cut of key to start any Range Rover, so you cannot have the same programming codes on every key produced. Ergo, they need to be programmed to the vehicle. > > The process of programming keys is often quoted as a “ten minute” job, but this is not always the case. Generally the technician hooks the vehice up to the required computer terminals, and runs the required programs to align the key to the vehicle. It is extremely common that this program will need to be repeated multiple times. Why? It will take a better electrician than me to answer that question, but anything involving those control units can be very twitchy. So in my experience, I have seen keys programmed in 10 minutes, and keys that took over an hour (Mercedes Vito vans were particularly annoying IME). > > In any workshop I worked, we set a fixed fee for reprogramming keys, generally set at about one hours usual labour rate. Bear in mind that most dealerships will charge you for the first hour regardless of why the car is there (for justifiable reasons). Also bear in mind that the reprogramming still requires an trained dealer techician. You are paying for his expertise, whether it is for programming a key, or for repairing problems in the gearbox or instrument cluster. > > As to the price of the physical key itself, I believe that is fixed by the manufacturer. I dont believe any dealership makes much profit on them, and I do know that the cost price of the key has rocketed in the past few years. > > A common situation I faced was a customer who would buy a key from our parts department, then indicate total outrage that we in service would be charging more money if he wanted it programmed. Sorry sir, but if you bought brake pads, would you expect us to fit them for free? If you bought a steering rack, should the fitting be free? Programming keys is an equivalent situation, however much you might protest otherwise. > > To anybody complaining about the cost of programming keys, do you have any idea how much the software costs just to be able to do that programmng? I wont make up any numbers, but it aint two bits for damn sure. So, let me get this right. The key. The one piece of equipment for the vehicle that is designed to be taken away from the vehicle where it might be lost or damaged. The key that used to do the job for the last 70 years quite nicely by enabling one system (the ignition) in the car to operate and therefore worked as a safeguard to the entire vehicle. That key. The key that could be duplicated only by the holder of the original. A passerby on the street could not inspect the car and manufacture a passable key. But the owner could have the original key copied if he needed another. That key. That key is now used to enable multiple systems in the car and is a complicated electrical/mechanical device that is time consuming,expensive and difficult for the representatives of the manufacturer to duplicate so that the customer has to spend considerable money just to have a duplicate made. That key. That key with which dealers found a way to complicate and maintain exclusion on what should be a simple process. Think about it. You can walk into any Home Depot and buy a replacement garage door opener control and take it home and program it for your existing garage door opener. It is the “key” to your whole house yet its quite easy and inexpensive for you the customer to duplicate it, control it, and secure your home. But the key to your car requires expensive equipment, exclusive suppliers and trained technicians? Does the customer get a free shovel for the horse-shit excuse you just dumped out? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/31 "2008-12-16T21:15:59Z")
> [@Black\_Sunshine](#): > > Couldn’t they just make one without the chip so I can open my door if I lock my keys in the car? That’s what I’m most worried about. I wouldn’t even need it to start the car. When I bought my Saturn L-300 back in 2001, a few weeks later they sent me a welcome package of sorts. Included was a simple key (with a holder) that only opens the door; it won’t open the trunk and it won’t start the car. I’ve had it in my wallet ever since. Of course, I’ve never needed it, that won’t happen until I lose it. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/32 "2008-12-16T21:52:18Z")
I’ve said it before on the boards, and will now say it again: Cars are getting too complicated. What’s worse, this particular type of complexity doesn’t really improve anything. Failures of these new systems causes what used to be simple problems to be complex and expensive problems. What happened to the elegance of simplicity? ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/33 "2008-12-16T22:11:44Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > So in my experience, I have seen keys programmed in 10 minutes, and keys that took over an hour [stuff deleted] > > In any workshop I worked, we set a fixed fee for reprogramming keys, generally set at about one hours usual labour rate. The fixed fee should be the average time to replace a key. If some take 10 minutes and others take 60, then charging for a full 60 is not fair. Even if a tech’s time is blocked in hour-units, it is still not right to charge some people for an hours work when it only took 10 or 20 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/34 "2008-12-16T22:18:02Z")
> [@](#): > > What’s worse, this particular type of complexity doesn’t really improve anything. Sure it does. When I insert my key in the ignition, the driver’s seat and review mirrors are automatically returned to the position memorized for that key. The second ignition key does likewise for a second driver. And in many vehicles more expensive than mine, the keys trigger other memorized settings, too - like your radio presets. ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/35 "2008-12-16T22:21:25Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > Cars are getting too complicated. I guess I’m officially an old fart. When I bought my truck I had to fight with the salesman because I specifically did _not_ want power windows. From my experience, it was just one more expensive thing to repair. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/36 "2008-12-16T22:43:48Z")
Thank you, **BubbaDog** , for saying what I wanted to say and more. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/37 "2008-12-17T00:09:23Z")
Any one notice how none of the car guys are chiming in on this thread? Might be because if you buy a car with one key, well that’s kind of your bad. You could have insisted on getting 2 keys with your vehicle, like most people do. Oh, and not to leave out people who lose their keys, DON"T FUCKING LOSE THEM!! Their’s nothing finer than somebody calling me on the phone and wanting me to cut them a key on their word. NEWS FLASH!!! Your word doesn’t mean shit!! People kill each other over far less, even spouses. Never fails to amaze me when someone does something ass backwards stupid, the first thing they want from you is to circumvent the law and give them a key to something that costs 50,000 dollars. Except for bitching about how much it costs. I give all people who lose their keys a discount on the key and the programming, because I wouldn’t want to piss them off, but hey, face the facts, your dumb ass lost the mother fuckers so save your fucking ball bag bull shit for your mommy. I feel much better now. Thank you for your support. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Onimous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@Ann\_Onimous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Onimous)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/38 "2008-12-17T00:15:52Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > Cars are getting too complicated. Getting? We drive a 1994 Buick Regal GS, and it has a chipped key. I think they’ve already passed complicated and traveled to impossible. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/39 "2008-12-17T00:17:36Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > I’ve said it before on the boards, and will now say it again: > > Cars are getting too complicated. > > What’s worse, this particular type of complexity doesn’t really improve anything. Failures of these new systems causes what used to be simple problems to be complex and expensive problems. > > What happened to the elegance of simplicity? Too complicated? I have a key with a chip linked to an immobilizer. Which is handy since car theft rates in the Lower Mainland are some of the worst in the country, and my car (a Civic) has been a consistent top5 favorite thieves’ target for longer than a decade. Doesn’t improve anything, my ass. Your ‘elegance of simplicity’ means some meth-head using a screwdriver to steal my car. No thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/40 "2008-12-17T01:17:22Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > Sure it does. When I insert my key in the ignition, the driver’s seat and review mirrors are automatically returned to the position memorized for that key. The second ignition key does likewise for a second driver. And in many vehicles more expensive than mine, the keys trigger other memorized settings, too - like your radio presets. Maybe that’s worth something to you, but as **PoorYorick** said, I just see it as something expensive to potentially have to repair. I don’t mind adjusting my mirrors. I don’t have a problem with that function existing, or you liking it. The problem is it’s difficult-to-impossible to NOT have these features come with a car should one so desire. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357.md?page=3)