# Fuck you Ford. $120 for a new key? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 16, 2008, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357 "2008-12-16T04:32:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/41 "2008-12-17T01:59:53Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > So, let me get this right. The key. The one piece of equipment for the vehicle that is designed to be taken away from the vehicle where it might be lost or damaged. The key that used to do the job for the last 70 years quite nicely by enabling one system (the ignition) in the car to operate and therefore worked as a safeguard to the entire vehicle. That key. The key that could be duplicated only by the holder of the original. A passerby on the street could not inspect the car and manufacture a passable key. But the owner could have the original key copied if he needed another. > > **Geez, all those words to say nothing at all. The owner can get these keys copied if he wants another, nothing changed…** > > That key. > > **Better if it was THOSE keys, you know, have a spare** > > That key is now used to enable multiple systems in the car and is a complicated electrical/mechanical device that is time consuming,expensive and difficult for the representatives of the manufacturer to duplicate so that the customer has to spend considerable money just to have a duplicate made. That key. > > That key with which dealers found a way to complicate and maintain exclusion on what should be a simple process. > > **It is still a relatively simple process, you just dont want to pay for it. In todays other news, gas got more expensive also…** > > Think about it. You can walk into any Home Depot and buy a replacement garage door opener control and take it home and program it for your existing garage door opener. It is the “key” to your whole house yet its quite easy and inexpensive for you the customer to duplicate it, control it, and secure your home. > > But the key to your car requires expensive equipment, exclusive suppliers and trained technicians? > > **Give me a call when somebody duplicates your garage door opener and then drives your garage away** > > Does the customer get a free shovel for the horse-shit excuse you just dumped out? > > **I wouldnt trust you with a shovel** Bolding mine ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/42 "2008-12-17T02:09:58Z")
Honestly, does anybody really have a problem with having the “on switch” for their very expensive, slightly mobile toy, be somewhat complicated? Is that really such a horrible problem? On a related note, has anybody seen the directors cut of “Gone in 60 seconds”? The one where Nick Cage got three keys cut to steal three Mercedes, but got busted when they still wouldnt start the cars he was trying to steal? Cant say I liked that version, dont think it had the pace of the original… ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/43 "2008-12-17T02:55:38Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Honestly, does anybody really have a problem with having the “on switch” for their very expensive, slightly mobile toy, be somewhat complicated? My car isn’t a toy. It’s a necessary piece of my life that I make as inexpensive as possible. So yeah, I have a problem with a key that costs over $1.50 or so to duplicate. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/44 "2008-12-17T05:04:48Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Honestly, does anybody really have a problem with having the “on switch” for their very expensive, slightly mobile toy, be somewhat complicated? Yeah, I sort of do. It’s not a big surprise to anyone that car keys get lost. So you’d think the car manufacturers would make the process of replacing the keys reasonably painless and inexpensive. But no, according to your previous post, it’s a touchy, painful process that needs a “trained technician”, despite the fact that the electronics in a chipped key can’t cost two bucks total and there’s absolutely nothing inherent about the task of reprogramming a key that a trained chimp couldn’t do. In other words, the car manufacturers gleefully turned what used to be a $1.50 task into a profit center. And the schmucks still can’t make money. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/45 "2008-12-17T06:13:11Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > The fact that keys NEED to be reprogrammed to the vehicle is not the fault of the dealer. Vehicles today have an increasing amount of software and electronics, and the ignition system is just another part of that. Keys no longer just turn in an ignition barrel, they also send and recieve vehicle specific data from the relevent control units in the vehicle itself. For the same reason you would not want the same cut of key to start any Range Rover, so you cannot have the same programming codes on every key produced. Ergo, they need to be programmed to the vehicle. And all of that data could probably fit on a 16MB thumbdrive. The fact that it is on a key does not impress me. > [@bucketybuck](#): > > The process of programming keys is often quoted as a “ten minute” job, but this is not always the case. Generally the technician hooks the vehice up to the required computer terminals, and runs the required programs to align the key to the vehicle. It is extremely common that this program will need to be repeated multiple times. Why? It will take a better electrician than me to answer that question, but anything involving those control units can be very twitchy. So in my experience, I have seen keys programmed in 10 minutes, and keys that took over an hour (Mercedes Vito vans were particularly annoying IME). On the assembly line, you know the manufacturer isn’t going to all that trouble to make the original keys. So why is it so hard for a dealer (you know, the ones with the **factory training** ) to do the same? > [@bucketybuck](#): > > To anybody complaining about the cost of programming keys, do you have any idea how much the software costs just to be able to do that programmng? I wont make up any numbers, but it aint two bits for damn sure. Again, the system shouldn’t be any harder than transferring data to a USB drive. Hell, car buyers should be given a CD with the information on it when they buy the car. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/46 "2008-12-17T06:59:46Z")
This thread inspired me to contact my dealership to see how much a replacement for the remote I lost a year ago would be. $177 ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/47 "2008-12-17T09:23:59Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Yeah, I sort of do. It’s not a big surprise to anyone that car keys get lost. So you’d think the car manufacturers would make the process of replacing the keys reasonably painless and inexpensive. But no, according to your previous post, it’s a touchy, painful process that needs a “trained technician”, despite the fact that the electronics in a chipped key can’t cost two bucks total and there’s absolutely nothing inherent about the task of reprogramming a key that a trained chimp couldn’t do. > > In other words, the car manufacturers gleefully turned what used to be a $1.50 task into a profit center. And the schmucks still can’t make money. The problem is with the customers because they demand two conflicting, contradictory things. They want utmost security. No one should be able to get into my car without the key. And then they want to be able to get into the car easily without the key. That’s like wanting to marry a virgin who is really good in bed. No can do. If the system is really secure then it should be that to get into the car without the key you should take the car to Detroit together with your DNA sample, twenty two forms of picture ID and $2.56 in postal stamps. But customers would object to that and demand a really easy way to get into the car without the key. But then they complain if a car is stolen because it just shows the system is not as secure as it should be. And they always want it cheap. There is no pleasing some people. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/48 "2008-12-17T19:47:47Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > What’s worse, this particular type of complexity doesn’t really improve anything. Failures of these new systems causes what used to be simple problems to be complex and **expensive** problems. There’s your answer. Why should the car makers let you have a $2.10 key to use your car, when they can charge you $250? ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/49 "2008-12-17T19:51:35Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > Sure it does. When I insert my key in the ignition, the driver’s seat and review mirrors are automatically returned to the position memorized for that key. The second ignition key does likewise for a second driver. And in many vehicles more expensive than mine, the keys trigger other memorized settings, too - like your radio presets. You think _that_ is worth hundreds of dollars?! ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/50 "2008-12-17T20:04:59Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > Sure it does. When I insert my key in the ignition, the driver’s seat and review mirrors are automatically returned to the position memorized for that key. The second ignition key does likewise for a second driver. And in many vehicles more expensive than mine, the keys trigger other memorized settings, too - like your radio presets. My truck does nothing like this. It is simply a truck. An F-150, one of the most basic and non-fancy trucks out there. The computer that changes the seat settings and radio stations never made it to within miles of this vehicle. And omegaman. > [@omegaman](#): > > Might be because if you buy a car with one key, well that’s kind of your bad. You could have insisted on getting 2 keys with your vehicle, like most people do. Fuck you. I bought it from a private seller, and figured that a new key would cost all of five bucks. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/51 "2008-12-17T20:42:44Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > And omegaman. Fuck you. I bought it from a private seller, and figured that a new key would cost all of five bucks. It seems you figured wrong. I cannot see how you can blame that on anyone else. You see what happens when you assume… ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/52 "2008-12-17T21:28:37Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > It is still a relatively simple process, you just dont want to pay for it. In todays other news, gas got more expensive also… Actually I’m complaining about paying more for it since it once cost $3.50 to make a duplicate and now cost $350 In today’s news gas went from $1.50 to $4.00. See any resemblance? Are you capable of understanding that? I don’t want to make this concept too difficult for you. You say its a relatively simple process yet I still have a concern about that. For simplicity I took a quick look around and tried to find an authority on this process but all I could find is the info supplied by the chucklehead in the next quote. > [@bucketybuck](#): > > …anything involving those control units can be very twitchy. So in my experience, I have seen keys programmed in 10 minutes, and keys that took over an hour > > …reprogramming still requires an trained dealer techician. You are paying for his expertise, whether it is for programming a key, or for repairing problems in the gearbox or instrument cluster I think Mr. Chucklehead disagrees with you > [@bucketybuck](#): > > Give me a call when somebody duplicates your garage door opener and then drives your garage away. Sounds good. You give me a call when somebody steals your car and contents worth over $250,000. Also, I’ll give you a call if somebody breaks into my home after buying a $12.00 garage door opener module and successfully programs it to the rolling codes of my garage door opener. Again, my cost to duplicate access to my home with a reasonable protection scheme = $12.00 / My cost to duplicate access to my 10 year old car worth $4,000 = $350 Car manufacturers are always trying to find ways to continue revenue stream for aftermarket products and the key duplication process is an obviously result of that strategy. Its very easy to make a protection scheme which gives the customer more control and less cost. The garage door example is proof of that. The customer can buy his own “key” and set and program his own code. But why do that when you can suck money out of the customer? You might even luck out and find a few stupid service managers dumb enough to drink the Koolaid, believe the hype, and actually buy into the scheme. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/53 "2008-12-17T22:40:04Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > … No one should be able to get into my car without the key. And then they want to be able to get into the car easily without the key… Yeah, exactly. Except that second part. WTF? ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/54 "2008-12-17T22:50:54Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Car manufacturers are always trying to find ways to continue revenue stream for aftermarket products and the key duplication process is an obviously result of that strategy. [minor hijack]A friend of mine managed to lose the gas cap to her Kia Rio. So she went to the local auto supply store to get a replacement. She was told that Kia gas caps are only available from the dealers. So she went to the dealer and found out that the dealer charges $35 for a replacement gas cap. The auto shop she had gone to charged about $7 for their gas caps. :mad: [/mh] ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/55 "2008-12-17T23:24:00Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > It seems you figured wrong. I cannot see how you can blame that on anyone else. You see what happens when you assume… Except for there was no me in the equation. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/56 "2008-12-17T23:28:23Z")
$125 really isn’t all that bad. Mine is over $350 bucks, has batteries that need replaced and doesn’t tolerate being washed in the washer when you forget to take it out of your pocket. Progress is such a wonderful thing. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/57 "2008-12-18T09:12:23Z")
> [@Omegaman](#): > > Except for there was no me in the equation. I am confused by this post. My post was not directed at you. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/58 "2008-12-18T15:23:51Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > I am confused by this post. My post was not directed at you. Nor was mine at you. I was pointing out that usually when I assume something it’s usually “me” that gets hosed. It was more me agreeing with you. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/59 "2008-12-18T16:17:36Z")
> [@Lizard](#): > > You think _that_ is worth hundreds of dollars?! Sure. That and everything else an encoded key does which has been mentioned by others in this thread. And it’s not “hundreds of dollars” - at least not for my Lincoln. When I bought the car last year, the salesman told me that replacement keys were in the $150.00 range. Used to be, a cheap-ass aftermarket car alarm cost more than $150.00. And that thing only made noise; it wouldn’t disable the ignition. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357/60 "2008-12-18T16:40:39Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > Sure. That and everything else an encoded key does which has been mentioned by others in this thread. And it’s not “hundreds of dollars” - at least not for my Lincoln. When I bought the car last year, the salesman told me that replacement keys were in the $150.00 range. Used to be, a cheap-ass aftermarket car alarm cost more than $150.00. And that thing only made noise; it wouldn’t disable the ignition. The gripe isn’t necessarily that the key holds information on a chip. The problem is with the manufacturers’ and dealers’ strategy of maintaining control over the process and thereby setting the price of duplication or replacement at an exorbitant level. If you want to make a duplicate of your key, your only alternative is to buck up since the manufacturer set you up that way. Take away the ownership of the process from the dealer and the price would drop like a rock. One easy way is if the new owner was given a PIN with his new car. He could take his key and his PIN to a third party supplier and get a duplicate made at a reasonable price. The PIN would add that extra layer of protection to the duplication process and it could be used as a seed value to create the proper programming for the key. Just like replacing a lost ATM card the cost would be in dollars, not hundreds of dollars. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-ford-120-for-a-new-key/477357.md?page=4)