# Fuck you guy who gives me responsibilities but no powers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 17, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-guy-who-gives-me-responsibilities-but-no-powers/690990 "2014-06-17T14:55:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-guy-who-gives-me-responsibilities-but-no-powers/690990/1 "2014-06-17T14:55:57Z")
This guy I work with at work–he’s actually one of the best people here at “actually getting things done,” and he’s latched on to me as someone who can also get things done. To a great extent, I am. But he has this habit of, well, basically, bullying people into doing things they’re not actually responsible for doing, and often don’t have the requisite formal _powers_ to do. Always his intentions are good–his ideas for how to fix problems are generally in my judgment the right ideas. But he has no real respect for boundaries. He just wants to point at someone generally associated with the area needing fixing and make _that person right there_ do the fixing, without regard for who reports to whom or who is actually allowed by policy to do what, etc. And now that he’s kind of latched onto me as a fellow problem-solver, he keeps expecting me to do the same thing to people. Just now I told him I was going to elicit ideas on how to solve a particular problem from people who I do not have any power over and whose performance is not my responsibility, and I told him I had my own ideas about how to solve the problem and I’d use the conversation to get those ideas communicated if the co-workers in question didn’t produce the ideas (or better ones) themselves. This is pretty much what you can do if you’re going to help solve a problem and you’re not the boss. And while I don’t have responsibilities or powers over these guys, I am in a position where it would be appropriate for me to get them on the record as _committing_ to the ideas I’m talking about, such that it becomes part of their job to do what they said they were going to do. It would even have been appropriate for me to send them reminders later on, not as a boss but as a co-worker. Well anyway, I was telling him that and he brusquely interrupted and told me, no, I’m going to _tell_ them to do this, this and this, and _make_ them do that and that and that. _I can’t fucking do that_. It is not my place. (Not to mention it’s not my style but that’s not so important as the point that it’s _not my place_.) I’m just the same as one of these guys. I’m not their boss. I don’t get to tell them what to do. So he’s forming this image of me as a wimpy leader, or something, and this is completely unfair. I’m exercising soft leadership, because I don’t have the power or formal responsibility to exercise any other kind of leadership. He doesn’t seem to get the concept. Ugh. It probably looks from the readers point of view like I should just ignore the guy and get on with things but I can’t because he’s persistent, and because he makes decisions about things that make a difference to me. Also I’m trying to maintain a good relationship with him because I really _do_ think he has the best ideas and also he’d be a good reference later on. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-guy-who-gives-me-responsibilities-but-no-powers/690990/2 "2014-06-17T15:03:46Z")
I say “bullying” above but it’s perhaps better characterized as “pestering.” But it’s pestering from a VP, and it’s pestering in a workplace where people have been known to be fired basically just for making the wrong person unhappy. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-guy-who-gives-me-responsibilities-but-no-powers/690990/3 "2014-06-17T15:12:23Z")
Welcome to middle management, son. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-guy-who-gives-me-responsibilities-but-no-powers/690990/4 "2014-06-17T15:19:34Z")
I feel like a character from a movie. I sit in my office and panic and feel like I’m falling apart and don’t see how I’m going to ever be able to do all the things I’m supposed to do and everybody’s going to hate me and daddy will be disappointed etc… Then I go outside and lead meetings and facilitate blah blah and everybody is convinced this guy completely has his shit together. And well, generally, yes, things go well. Then I’m back in my office nearly crying all the time. Is this what it’s like for a lot of people or should I be dialing it back a little on the actually trying to accomplish things front? I never understood why people want to take vacations from work til this kind of stuff started happening in the last year or year and a half or so. ---
**Author:** ![wedgehed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8edcca/32.png) [@wedgehed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wedgehed)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-guy-who-gives-me-responsibilities-but-no-powers/690990/5 "2014-06-17T15:33:22Z")
Figure out a way to make him radioactive & maybe you’ll become Spider-Man. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-guy-who-gives-me-responsibilities-but-no-powers/690990/6 "2014-06-17T15:33:51Z")
“Here’s the thing guys, Mr Big Boss is telling me that **I** need to get things done. Our group has had these discussions before about the problem at hand and we all know what is going to take to get it fixed. I’m not your boss, we all know that. Mr Big Boss on the other hand is blurring the lines, which is making things difficult for me personally. Lets work together and get this shit done. I’ll take the heat if things go astray and share the wealth that comes from our successes.” “We’ll throw darts at his picture after work tonight.” ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-guy-who-gives-me-responsibilities-but-no-powers/690990/7 "2014-06-17T15:35:41Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > “Here’s the thing guys, Mr Big Boss is telling me that **I** need to get things done. Our group has had these discussions before about the problem at hand and we all know what is going to take to get it fixed. I’m not your boss, we all know that. Mr Big Boss on the other hand is blurring the lines, which is making things difficult for me personally. Lets work together and get this shit done. I’ll take the heat if things go astray and share the wealth that comes from our successes.” > > “We’ll throw darts at his picture after work tonight.” Thank you for this. In fact I have had exactly this conversation with people. I am glad to see it here, as it serves as some confirmation that the approach isn’t completely off base. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-guy-who-gives-me-responsibilities-but-no-powers/690990/8 "2014-06-17T15:45:41Z")
Is there actually any wealth to be shared from successes? If not, you may want to leave that part off. Or if it’s like, the wealth of personal pride in a job well done, or some such shit. Hard to spend that kind of wealth. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-guy-who-gives-me-responsibilities-but-no-powers/690990/9 "2014-06-17T16:08:57Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Is there actually any wealth to be shared from successes? If not, you may want to leave that part off. > > Or if it’s like, the wealth of personal pride in a job well done, or some such shit. Hard to spend that kind of wealth. In my experience, upper managers share the wealth of successes between themselves - failures are the responsibility of the peons. I’ve sat through lots of management classes that stress the importance of sharing authority and taking responsibility but most managers I’ve worked with do the opposite. When things go wrong they are all over finding the person who is at fault but when things work out well, they are at the front of the line for the rewards. That’s how they got to be upper management in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-guy-who-gives-me-responsibilities-but-no-powers/690990/10 "2014-06-17T16:12:43Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Is there actually any wealth to be shared from successes? If not, you may want to leave that part off. > > Or if it’s like, the wealth of personal pride in a job well done, or some such shit. Hard to spend that kind of wealth. Whatever “wealth” means in this situation. Pride, money, recognition, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-guy-who-gives-me-responsibilities-but-no-powers/690990/11 "2014-06-17T19:39:43Z")
I agree with **JXJohns**. Note that: > [@Frylock](#): > > Well anyway, I was telling him that and he brusquely interrupted and told me, no, I’m going to _tell_ them to do this, this and this, and _make_ them do that and that and that. is in some sense giving you the authority you need to get things done. Depending on how tight the chain of command is in your company, that might be enough. If you’re unsure, talk to your own chain of command. Ideally, talk to someone who is a peer of this guy, who can either tell him to back off, or formally give you the authority. I’ve been in similar situations and its gone either way. Sometimes, my director gives a talk to the out-of-line director. Sometimes, I get unofficial authority and my peers get told to make-it-happen. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-guy-who-gives-me-responsibilities-but-no-powers/690990/12 "2014-06-17T20:15:52Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > “Here’s the thing guys, Mr Big Boss is telling me that **I** need to get things done. Our group has had these discussions before about the problem at hand and we all know what is going to take to get it fixed. I’m not your boss, we all know that. Mr Big Boss on the other hand is blurring the lines, which is making things difficult for me personally. Lets work together and get this shit done. I’ll take the heat if things go astray and share the wealth that comes from our successes.” > > “We’ll throw darts at his picture after work tonight.” I worked for a Veep who would find low guys on the chart and send them somewhere to tell the directors, managers etc to do some task, change policy etc. He liked to shake things up and see what middle managers were capable of doing. I got one of these assignments and had to convince a bunch of middle managers whose director was on a three week leave to change to a radical new policy. I took an approach similar to what you’ve demonstrated and it worked just fine. The second time he did this to me the group I was influencing was not at all about to follow my advice. I finally told them,“Do it anyway. I’m taking full responsibility for your failures and nobody would believe that I was responsible if you succeed.” Worked. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-guy-who-gives-me-responsibilities-but-no-powers/690990/13 "2014-06-17T20:30:05Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I agree with **JXJohns**. > > Note that: > > is in some sense giving you the authority you need to get things done. But he doesn’t have the authority to give me that authority. I don’t report to him or answer to him–he’s an “uncle” to me on the org chart, if you understand what I mean. Anyway, I don’t want that kind of authority, not in my current position and not in the current situation. I see my problem-solving role to not involve authority right now. I’m interested to see what happens if that ever changes, but I’m not pushing for it. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-guy-who-gives-me-responsibilities-but-no-powers/690990/14 "2014-06-17T20:31:06Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > I > > The second time he did this to me the group I was influencing was not at all about to follow my advice. I finally told them,“Do it anyway. I’m taking full responsibility for your failures and nobody would believe that I was responsible if you succeed.” Worked. But how can you take responsibility for their failures? You’re not a decider, they are. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-guy-who-gives-me-responsibilities-but-no-powers/690990/15 "2014-06-17T21:12:01Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > But he doesn’t have the authority to give me that authority. I don’t report to him or answer to him–he’s an “uncle” to me on the org chart, if you understand what I mean. Well, that depends on your corporate culture. Where I’m at, there’s “official authority”: you do what your boss says, they do what their boss says, and on up. And there’s “informal power”: people talk to people and things get done. Some places are strict on the hierarchy and some or not. The fact that a VP is asking these things of you points to a looser structure. But you know your company best. And if you don’t want that kind of authority, you’re going to have to talk to someone who can make him back off. But you might be missing out on a great way to advance your career–showing you can handle “authority” that’s been given informally is one of the best ways of getting a position that has actual authority. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-guy-who-gives-me-responsibilities-but-no-powers/690990/16 "2014-06-17T21:29:17Z")
Yeah, where I work there’s also a big component of people not really knowing if you (or anyone in particular who tells people what to do) actually have the real concrete authority to be telling them to do something, so they do it and are cool with it, so long as you fill out the actual paperwork so they don’t get in trouble. Every now and again, the real managers will step in and block something on resource constraint grounds or prioritization, but by and large, if you act like you have the authority to be telling them to do something, people will assume you do. That’s almost certainly how your co-worker is getting stuff done. The problem comes in when you’re held responsible for getting people to do stuff when you don’t have any authority to compel them to do it. That’s just a mechanism for assigning blame when stuff goes south, not actual responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-guy-who-gives-me-responsibilities-but-no-powers/690990/17 "2014-06-17T21:45:59Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > And while I don’t have responsibilities or powers over these guys, I am in a position where it would be appropriate for me to get them on the record as _committing_ to the ideas I’m talking about, such that it becomes part of their job to do what they said they were going to do. It would even have been appropriate for me to send them reminders later on, not as a boss but as a co-worker. > > Well anyway, I was telling him that and he brusquely interrupted and told me, no, I’m going to _tell_ them to do this, this and this, and _make_ them do that and that and that. Maybe you could stop telling him how you plan to get your results. Unless he asks. And if he DOES ask, tell him: _I was just coming up to your office to ask for your advice on how best to approach this._ Then pull your lips back off his ass and do it the way it’s been shown to work for you. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![drew870mitchell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drew870mitchell/32/3946_2.png) [@drew870mitchell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drew870mitchell)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-guy-who-gives-me-responsibilities-but-no-powers/690990/18 "2014-06-17T22:15:56Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I feel like a character from a movie. I sit in my office and panic and feel like I’m falling apart and don’t see how I’m going to ever be able to do all the things I’m supposed to do and everybody’s going to hate me and daddy will be disappointed etc… > > Then I go outside and lead meetings and facilitate blah blah and everybody is convinced this guy completely has his shit together. > > And well, generally, yes, things go well. > > Then I’m back in my office nearly crying all the time. > > Is this what it’s like for a lot of people or should I be dialing it back a little on the actually trying to accomplish things front? > > I never understood why people want to take vacations from work til this kind of stuff started happening in the last year or year and a half or so. [Everyone is totally just winging it, all the time](http://www.theguardian.com/news/oliver-burkeman-s-blog/2014/may/21/everyone-is-totally-just-winging-it) Knowing the above makes life _much_ easier. We really are making it up as we go. Everybody is. Let them tell you that they aren’t, but they’re lying. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-guy-who-gives-me-responsibilities-but-no-powers/690990/19 "2014-06-17T22:58:38Z")
I’m confused. Is this guy your boss (it sounds like he’s not)? If not, then tell him to fuck off and go ask your boss if he thinks you need to do things to support his projects. ---
**Author:** ![araminty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5e925/32.png) [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-guy-who-gives-me-responsibilities-but-no-powers/690990/20 "2014-06-17T23:05:36Z")
Yeah, I think you need to fill your boss in on your uncle’s actions. You’re not snitching. Phrase it as a question - “hey, boss, Bob has been feeding me some great ideas on how to do X. This isn’t really within the scope of my responsibilities - how can we make this clear to Bob, and show him where to focus his energy?” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-guy-who-gives-me-responsibilities-but-no-powers/690990.md?page=2)