# Fuck You, Judd Gregg **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 12, 2009, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judd-gregg/485598 "2009-02-12T22:07:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judd-gregg/485598/141 "2009-02-13T12:01:53Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Simple trolling. > > The larger question is why anyone responds to obvious trolling. You mean the way you did? So now calling the President names is trolling? Even if it really is his name, and not “Shrub” or something like that. _:shrugs:_ We have taken another step towards defining trolling as “any post that mocks one of the sacred cows of liberalism”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judd-gregg/485598/142 "2009-02-13T12:54:18Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > You’re at least being stupid. “W” is used by the Bush family itself to distinguish one George, H.W., from the other, W. Oh, I see. It is OK to refer to a President by a name if his family gave it to him. Refresh my memory - who gave Obama his middle name? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judd-gregg/485598/143 "2009-02-13T13:03:24Z")
I think there’s a difference between showing simple contempt for Bush by calling him “Shrubya” or whatever and calling Obama “Hussein”. The latter is designed to stir anti-Muslim sentiment and exploit the fear that many Americans have of all things Muslim. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judd-gregg/485598/144 "2009-02-13T13:08:54Z")
Of course it is BobLibDem, but wingnuts will never admit it. They’ll pretend to be playing fair and honorably claiming innocence while spewing the basic mean-spiritedness that I’ve sadly come to expect from them. I’ve never been disappointed in that, though I wish they would disappoint me once. They might as well just shout “Hail Cobra!” at their press conferences. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judd-gregg/485598/145 "2009-02-13T13:28:11Z")
> [@Jolly\_Roger](#): > > Of course it is BobLibDem, but wingnuts will never admit it. They’ll pretend to be playing fair and honorably claiming innocence while spewing the basic mean-spiritedness that I’ve sadly come to expect from them. Gosh yes. We keep spewing nasty, mean-spirited stuff like this - > [@](#): > > They are the most hypocritical pigfuckers on the planet… > > I no longer just disagree with their politics, I actively loathe them. I want to see their party ground into dust and destroyed. > [@](#): > > you weasel-assed chicken shit… > [@](#): > > what a self-centered worm Oops! That wasn’t any of us. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judd-gregg/485598/146 "2009-02-13T13:37:47Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Not at all. I’ll go through this one more time. From Gregg’s statement: > > _However, it has become apparent during this process that this will not work for me as I have found that on issues such as the stimulus package and_\* the Census\*\* there are **irresolvable conflicts** for me.\* > > OK? It was important enough for him to mention as one of the two reasons he was withdrawing his nomination. That’s what he came up with when drawing up his statement; it was obviously on his mind. It _is_ one of the reasons for his decision. That’s not a “lie,” nor is it “speculation” on my part. It’s right there. Now, why he decided a few hours later to downplay this factor, I have no clue. If you find out, please let me know. It appears to me to be simple partisan posturing. Here’s why. Gregg’s nomination pissed off minorities on the basis that Gregg’s history of voting against funding is thought to be responsible for undercounting in the last census. Considering significant problems with this one, it’s understandable that they feel, as Commerce secretary, Gregg could undermine any solutions related to funding. In order to allay these fears, the Obama administration indicated they would be taking a more active role in the Census Bureau inciting Republicans who believed that meant he was taking over the census: [QUOTE=AP] On Thursday, House GOP leaders held a news conference to decry the possibility of “backroom deals” at the White House that would be guided by chief of staff Rahm Emanuel, the former chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. They threatened to file a lawsuit if the White House was overly active in deciding how the 2010 Census is handled. [/QUOTE] Presumably the Commerce secretary would be named in this lawsuit were it to be filed or he would have to be one of the filers. I can’t imagine the logistic of suing your boss, the President, who recently appointed you to a cabinet post. Either way, he’d have to be a party to the hypothetical lawsuit. Now, if Gregg were to be out of the way of the lawsuit, it makes it supremely less complicated to file without worrying about too much overspray landing on your party. Secondly, if you’re creating a partisan taskforce to make sure no funny business takes place wrt the census: [QUOTE=AP] House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, also said he was creating a census task force composed of GOP lawmakers from the Judiciary, House Administration and Oversight & Government Reform committees to keep watch. [/QUOTE] …wouldn’t it make sense to have one of your own guys on the inside able to scrutinize these WH census-related dealings? After all, Obama did say that the census was to remain under the purview of the Commerce Department. As a Republican Secretary of Commerce, you’d be in a unique position to ensure that Obama keeps to his word. Unless, Repubs would like to use the task force to stymie the process and tar the Administration with unfounded suspicions, and make yourself appear to be the only thing standing in the way of rampant corruption. Then it makes it easier if one of your guys wasn’t standing too close to the administration and doesn’t inadvertently look either impotent or corrupt. [QUOTE=AP] “If President Obama doesn’t trust Sen. Gregg to oversee a fair and accurate census, he should withdraw the nomination,” said GOP conference chairman Mike Pence, R-Ind., at the morning briefing. [/QUOTE] Finally, Repubs invited Obama to reinforce their view that he doesn’t trust a Repub to get the job done, but since he didn’t rise to their challenge, they had no choice but to do it for him. By not cowtowing to Repub devisiveness, Obama made a bold statement and forced them to appear even more partisan. The timing of Gregg’s step down is also orchestrated to downplay Obama’s Peoria speech regarding the economy. The fact that he found it necessary to release a statement and then call a press conference illustrates the fact that he’s working to undermine Obama’s decisions. [QUOTE=Judd Gregg] My genuine belief that this presidency will be a good presidency prevented me from focusing on whether I as an individual was going to be effective on the job. [/QUOTE] So, essentially you think the President is going to be effective and good for the country, and therefore you wouldn’t be able to do your job which would be carrying out effective and good policy that you disagree with? Gotcha. I could be way off, but this is my “everyman” perception. I wonder if they care. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judd-gregg/485598/147 "2009-02-13T13:52:39Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > > [@Judd Gregg](#): > > > > My genuine belief that this presidency will be a good presidency prevented me from focusing on whether I as an individual was going to be effective on the job. > > So, essentially you think the President is going to be effective and good for the country, and therefore you wouldn’t be able to do your job which would be carrying out effective and good policy that you disagree with? Gotcha. No, I don’t think that you do. There is a world of difference between “I cannot do the job because I think Obama will be a good President” and 'I cannot do the job even though I think Obama will be a good President". Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judd-gregg/485598/148 "2009-02-13T14:05:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, I don’t think that you do. > > There is a world of difference between “I cannot do the job because I think Obama will be a good President” and 'I cannot do the job even though I think Obama will be a good President". > > Regards, > Shodan Yeah but he says that it’s because he believes the President will do a good job, he can’t do his job. What does that mean? Is he saying he’s so blinded by the greatness in front of him that he’s too dumbfounded to perform his duties? Is he saying that the good works of the President would be hampered by his doing his job? Is he saying that even though he believes in the President’s good work, his work ethic doesn’t allow him to perform to the same standards? I have a job too and believe that the company I work for is doing great things. I believe in them. That actually makes my job a lot easier to do. I have worked for companies that I didn’t think that highly of and, frankly, it made going to work a total drag. I probably didn’t do as good a job at those companies as I do now. That’s in complete contradiction to what Gregg is saying, so don’t be surprised if it looks like total bullshit to me. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judd-gregg/485598/149 "2009-02-13T14:10:59Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Were you actually expecting any? Each and every success of the Obama Administration (all 8 years of it, Ghu willing) is another stone removed from under the Conservatives, who are just showing the country and the world how morally and intellectually bankrupt they really are. Not really, but they tend to proclaim and claim that they have the moral high ground and tend to beat the “reach across the aisle” stuff (as if they did any of that when they held the majority–hell, the Dems couldn’t get meetings with Bush for some time). And I really mean Reps, not conservatives. I am so tired of black and white thinking, on both sides. The Reps have no moral high ground. I really don’t see the Dems claiming any, so this is about the Reps. I understand there are different way of doing things, and I think we need alternate POV. What I cannot stomach is the righteousness (especially in the face of such hypocrisy, but that’s another thread). Maybe Gregg truly did have a change of heart and maybe he didn’t. We none of us really know. But it LOOKS like a stunt and in politics, perception is everything. I agree with **DSeid** : it is time for Obama to put the hammer down. IMO, Reps understand nothing but an iron fist-they even disdain the velvet glove. The hand was extended, and rejected. Time to strike. (actually, I think Obama will not do that because it plays right into their manipulative hands–Reps like nothing more than being the minority, Monday morning quarterback, doom and gloomers, but it’s nice to contemplate). ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judd-gregg/485598/150 "2009-02-13T14:31:01Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I think Obama will not do that because it plays right into their manipulative hands–Reps like nothing more than being the minority… Yeah, that Obama’s pretty slick alright. I hear he’s already plotting the downfall of the Democratic majority in Congress and trying to figure out some way to return the presidency to the Republicans so as to thwart evil Republican plans to maintain minority status. Typically, he’s having trouble getting the Republicans in Congress to go along. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judd-gregg/485598/151 "2009-02-13T14:47:31Z")
In any case I do not think it will take long for Team Obama to announce their next choice. I suspect that an alternate decision was close to being made when Gregg’s interest was brought to them; that person gets the call today and triple-vetting gets done by mid-next week. It won’t be another Republican. A moderate Dem is much more likely and I hope not out of the Senate. Thing is that Commerce really isn’t all that important; I think that Gregg was likely honest in that he really just didn’t _get_ it that he would need to toe the Obama line as much as it became apparent he would but he will likely be a bit more reachable as a cross-over Republican for having considered himself as part of their team especially on issues not so dear to his heart. If nothing else he would likely have been a vote against the stimulus and he instead was a recused one. Team Obama’s willingness to choose him while not getting another Dem in the Senate in return also will have it’s longer term pay-offs with those few critical swing GOP votes even as a moderate Dem actually goes in. And those GOP swingers (a bad image I know) control the show. They are the target audience for all the bipartisanshipness and will limit how much he puts the hammer down. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judd-gregg/485598/152 "2009-02-13T15:02:07Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Yeah but he says that it’s because he believes the President will do a good job, he can’t do his job. What does that mean? I haven’t seen that Gregg said that he couldn’t do his job because Obama was so good. > [@](#): > > However, it has become apparent during this process that this will not work for me as I have found that on issues such as the stimulus package and the Census there are irresolvable conflicts for me. Prior to accepting this post, we had discussed these and other potential differences, but unfortunately we did not adequately focus on these concerns. We are functioning from a different set of views on many critical items of policy. > > Obviously the President requires a team that is fully supportive of all his initiatives. > > I greatly admire President Obama and know our country will benefit from his leadership, but at this time I must withdraw my name from consideration for this position. Nothing there at all about “because Obama is so great”. Just the opposite - he had to withdraw even though “I greatly admire President Obama and know our country will benefit from his leadership”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judd-gregg/485598/153 "2009-02-13T15:31:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I haven’t seen that Gregg said that he couldn’t do his job because Obama was so good. Nothing there at all about “because Obama is so great”. Just the opposite - he had to withdraw even though “I greatly admire President Obama and know our country will benefit from his leadership”. > > Regards, > Shodan I apologize for misquoting/paraphrasing Gregg in my initial post. I blame poor choice of source. Here it is [again with link](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/jan-june09/greggwithdraw_02-12.html): [QUOTE=Sen. Judd Gregg] My genuine belief that this administration – and specifically this president – is going to be a good presidency is what caused me to say yes without really thinking through the implications to me as – as an individual and the way I approach issues, and the fact that I’ve always been independent and had a fair amount of opinion and principle that would be hard for me to adjust or trim my sails on. [/QUOTE] So, he believes the administration, and specifically Obama, is “strong and effective and good.” He says as much. Then he says he didn’t think the implications of working for a strong and effective and good administration. What could these implications be? That as an opinionated, independent, principled individual, he wouldn’t be able to adjust to a strong and effective and good administration. Essentially, telling me that he’s a blowhard who is inflexible and will stick to his guns in the face of effective and good policymaking on the basis of principle _pound desk emphatically_. So, he’s really saying “I’m not a team player.” Excellent timing, my friend. The country is in the crapper and you are throwing down your equipment and stomping off the field because the big guy doesn’t agree with you. Awwww. Whatever insight the administration might have gleaned from a point of view as different as yours (which I think was the idea here, bud) is all for naught. I suspect also that this wasn’t so much Gregg’s decision as it was a political Republican push. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judd-gregg/485598/154 "2009-02-13T15:50:22Z")
**DSeid** , please stop talking like an adult. You’re bringing the tone of the thread down. If anyone has an actual argument as to how this is an evil plot, [drop in.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10822651#post10822651) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judd-gregg/485598/155 "2009-02-13T16:12:30Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yeah, that Obama’s pretty slick alright. I hear he’s already plotting the downfall of the Democratic majority in Congress and trying to figure out some way to return the presidency to the Republicans so as to thwart evil Republican plans to maintain minority status. > > Typically, he’s having trouble getting the Republicans in Congress to go along. But it’s all really meant to keep us distracted while Obama, Bush, McCain and Palin break into the building next door to steal the Hope Diamond. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judd-gregg/485598/156 "2009-02-13T16:30:31Z")
Whereupon they’ll all dash off to some tropical island and live happily ever after, freed at last from the need to earn money off the backs of the proletariat. (This because Obama’s done pretty well himself.) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judd-gregg/485598/157 "2009-02-13T16:36:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Oh, I see. No, in fact you’re fucking blind. > [@](#): > > It is OK to refer to a President by a name if his family gave it to him. Try not to drop subordinate clauses: his family gave it to him **to differentiate him from the other George**. There is a purpose for it, to identify one from the other. > [@](#): > > Regards, > Shodan What the hell does that mean? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judd-gregg/485598/158 "2009-02-13T16:46:28Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > So, he believes the administration, and specifically Obama, is “strong and effective and good.” He says as much. Then he says he didn’t think the implications of working for a strong and effective and good administration. What could these implications be? That as an opinionated, independent, principled individual, he wouldn’t be able to adjust to a strong and effective and good administration. Essentially, telling me that he’s a blowhard who is inflexible and will stick to his guns in the face of effective and good policymaking on the basis of principle _pound desk emphatically_. So, he’s really saying “I’m not a team player.” Well, you can spin it that way. Or you can put it “I said Yes because I thought Obama was going to be a good President. But I didn’t realize how fundamentally we disagree on principle. So I changed my mind.” I am sure you agree that being a team player doesn’t necessarily mean going along with whatever the boss says. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judd-gregg/485598/159 "2009-02-13T16:46:31Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Typically, he’s having trouble getting the Republicans in Congress to go along. The American public is having similar trouble: [Obama Up, Republicans down in Gallup Poll](http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/seattlepolitics/archives/161625.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judd-gregg/485598/160 "2009-02-13T16:52:09Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Try not to drop subordinate clauses: his family gave it to him **to differentiate him from the other George**. There is a purpose for it, to identify one from the other. So, in general, what is the purpose of a name? Would it not be to differentiate one person from another? Thus he was named Barack Hussein Obama to differentiate him from his father, who was named Barack Obama Sr. [(cite).](http://www.biography.com/featured-biography/barack-obama/index.jsp) IOW, pretty much the same thing as calling Bush Dubya. Yet in the one case, it is trolling, and in the other, not. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judd-gregg/485598.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judd-gregg/485598.md?page=9)