# Fuck you, Judge Littlejohn **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 7, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judge-littlejohn/556326 "2010-10-07T03:09:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judge-littlejohn/556326/121 "2010-10-09T21:58:07Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > > [@SteveG1](#): > > > > I’d rather die on my feet, thank you very much. I hope we never have to see you talk about any “rights” you might think you have, if you’d sell them so cheaply. > > Then, if you really mean that, you’re an idiot. Look, this case wasn’t a big deal. The guy had a choice between reciting some meaningless formula or sitting in a jail cell for a few hours. So if the guy wants to defy the judge’s order, that’s not such a big thing. But if you’re faced with the real choice between “dying on your feet or living on your knees”, choose life. Always choose life. Slaves can be set free, tyrants can die, and as long as you’re alive, there are millions of possibilities, and even people who live under oppression can experience moments of joy and happiness. When you die that’s gone. And it’s one thing to sacrifice your life to make a difference, but never do it for just a gesture. It’s just an expression about having some courage in the face of tyrants and petty bureaucrats. I suppose if someone had an actual gun to my head, I’d say the damn pledge. Maybe we are in agreement there. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judge-littlejohn/556326/122 "2010-10-09T22:20:20Z")
According to Joesph Heller, the correct quote is that it’s better to live on your feet than die on your knees. In this case living on your feet means respectfully ignoring the judge’s demands and holding fast while the judge gets bounced from the case and possibly removed from the bench. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judge-littlejohn/556326/123 "2010-10-09T23:23:36Z")
Nevah mine. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judge-littlejohn/556326/124 "2010-10-10T00:10:25Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > > [@SteveG1](#): > > > > I’d rather die on my feet, thank you very much. I hope we never have to see you talk about any “rights” you might think you have, if you’d sell them so cheaply. > > Then, if you really mean that, you’re an idiot. Look, this case wasn’t a big deal. The guy had a choice between reciting some meaningless formula or sitting in a jail cell for a few hours. So if the guy wants to defy the judge’s order, that’s not such a big thing. But if you’re faced with the real choice between “dying on your feet or living on your knees”, choose life. Always choose life. Slaves can be set free, tyrants can die, and as long as you’re alive, there are millions of possibilities, and even people who live under oppression can experience moments of joy and happiness. When you die that’s gone. And it’s one thing to sacrifice your life to make a difference, but never do it for just a gesture. The lawyer was not aware of any such choice, so how could he have made a reasoned decision. The judge did not say I will throw you in jail for 5 hours before he had him arrested. The judge was being a jerk. I hope he gets in trouble for it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judge-littlejohn/556326/125 "2010-10-10T01:50:54Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The judge was being a jerk. I hope he gets in trouble for it. Make him stand up in court and recite the constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judge-littlejohn/556326/126 "2010-10-10T11:54:48Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I don’t know if he was right. I mean, he had the absolute legal right not to say the pledge, but by not saying it, he put his client’s case in jeopardy, wound up spending time in jail in contempt, and probably irrevocably prejudiced the judge against him in the future. So I don’t know if he handled the situation the best way he could have handled it. You are completely wrong. Completely. The lawyer took the only reasonable action: he refused to give in to an illegal order issued by someone in a seat of power. As a result, this issue got national press and now there are lots of people aware of the situation. His sacrifice shone light on a racist, petty despot who refused to uphold the law of the land and who hopefully will now be stripped of whatever powers he holds over anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judge-littlejohn/556326/127 "2010-10-10T12:14:45Z")
A quick question: Mr Lampley is noted as being from Oxford. I know that there’s more than one Oxford in the world, but could it be that he is not an American citizen, but a British one? Therefore it would be wrong - perhaps even treasonous - for him to recite the American Pledge of Allegiance. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judge-littlejohn/556326/128 "2010-10-10T12:55:26Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > A quick question: Mr Lampley is noted as being from Oxford. I know that there’s more than one Oxford in the world, but could it be that he is not an American citizen, but a British one? Therefore it would be wrong - perhaps even treasonous - for him to recite the American Pledge of Allegiance. Reasonable observation, but Oxford MS (site of a major university) is only 50 miles away along a US highway, and it makes a great deal of sense that someone not wanting a local lawyer, for whatever reason, might well get a lawyer from Oxford instead. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judge-littlejohn/556326/129 "2010-10-10T14:20:23Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > > [@Quartz](#): > > > > A quick question: Mr Lampley is noted as being from Oxford. I know that there’s more than one Oxford in the world, but could it be that he is not an American citizen, but a British one? Therefore it would be wrong - perhaps even treasonous - for him to recite the American Pledge of Allegiance. > > Reasonable observation, but Oxford MS (site of a major university) is only 50 miles away along a US highway, and it makes a great deal of sense that someone not wanting a local lawyer, for whatever reason, might well get a lawyer from Oxford instead. Right. But even granted that, do you need to be an American citizen to practice law in America? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judge-littlejohn/556326/130 "2010-10-10T15:20:07Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Then, if you really mean that, you’re an idiot. Look, this case wasn’t a big deal. The guy had a choice between reciting some meaningless formula or sitting in a jail cell for a few hours. So if the guy wants to defy the judge’s order, that’s not such a big thing. But if you’re faced with the real choice between “dying on your feet or living on your knees”, choose life. Always choose life. Slaves can be set free, tyrants can die, and as long as you’re alive, there are millions of possibilities, and even people who live under oppression can experience moments of joy and happiness. When you die that’s gone. And it’s one thing to sacrifice your life to make a difference, but never do it for just a gesture. IF we want to get into name calling, then you are a coward. This was not a big deal until the crazy judge made it a big deal. The judge could have either not brought the pledge up, or could have dropped it. He chose to pursue it for his personal power trip. Let’s place the blame where it belonged. As far as any choice between a real “die on your feet” situation, assuming we want to get into that, if you want to be a slave, fine. Personally, I’m not into that. Slaves can be set free, tyrants can die? If everyone knuckles under, then who gets to kill the tyrant? Probably some “idiot” who refused to go with the program, and does the things you could have and should have done (but didn’t). Bah. In that sort of extreme fantasy situation, where I’m the mythical hero, I’d free those who had tried to stay free, those are the ones worth saving. I’d leave the willing slaves, the cowards, to rot in the hell of their own choosing. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judge-littlejohn/556326/131 "2010-10-10T16:12:50Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > do you need to be an American citizen to practice law in America? It is my understanding that you need to be licensed to practice in the state you are practicing in. I don’t believe one needs to be a citizen of the US to be eligible for a law license. However, I’m no expert on that topic. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judge-littlejohn/556326/132 "2010-10-10T16:34:42Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > > > I don’t know if he was right. I mean, he had the absolute legal right not to say the pledge, but by not saying it, he put his client’s case in jeopardy, wound up spending time in jail in contempt, and probably irrevocably prejudiced the judge against him in the future. So I don’t know if he handled the situation the best way he could have handled it. > > You are completely wrong. Completely. > > The lawyer took the only reasonable action: he refused to give in to an illegal order issued by someone in a seat of power. As a result, this issue got national press and now there are lots of people aware of the situation. His sacrifice shone light on a racist, petty despot who refused to uphold the law of the land and who hopefully will now be stripped of whatever powers he holds over anyone. Not a lawyer or anything resembling one but wouldn’t the correct action have been to have recited the Pledge under strong protest and then made an official complaint when the business of the court had finished? In other words, you don’t get to argue with the judge over what is proper procedure in his courtroom and surely it could be argued that he was rightly held in contempt for not obeying the judge. It’s for the judge’s superiors to decide whether hizzonner is an ignorant asshole (and it’s my fervent hope and belief that they will do just that). ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judge-littlejohn/556326/133 "2010-10-10T16:57:54Z")
Nope. That didn’t work at Nuremburg, and it isn’t going to work now. 😃 An illegal order is an illegal order, period. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judge-littlejohn/556326/134 "2010-10-10T17:13:55Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Nope. That didn’t work at Nuremburg, and it isn’t going to work now. 😃 > > An illegal order is an illegal order, period. Not to mention that, if the lawyer had said the pledge and simply complained later, this incident almost certainly would not have received anything like the national attention that it is getting now. The judge has abused his power in the past, and has never been held accountable for it, so the lawyer probably felt that a simple complaint might not be sufficient to effect any change. But now this story has spread well beyond one particular stunted little backwater, and is getting much wider attention. This truly was an act of civil disobedience that served a very clear purpose. ---
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judge-littlejohn/556326/135 "2010-10-10T17:17:22Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > The South just even bothering with the Constitution anymore, I guess. > > That’s right, Dio. It is very fair to smear the entire South over the actions of one judge in Mississippi. > > Asshole. > :rolleyes: Truth hurts, no? ---
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judge-littlejohn/556326/136 "2010-10-10T17:20:45Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > you fucking creationist, birther retard. > > Cite for anything I’ve posted here endorsing creationist or birther viewpoints? So, you’re denying it, you cock-faced vaginal bloodfart? ---
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judge-littlejohn/556326/137 "2010-10-10T17:25:49Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Cite for where I pretended Dio insulted me by calling me a Republican? Your own goddamn posts, you diarrhetic cumstain. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judge-littlejohn/556326/138 "2010-10-10T17:42:30Z")
Give him a chance to answer, you syphilitic tampon-brained discharge residue! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judge-littlejohn/556326/139 "2010-10-10T17:51:42Z")
**Captain Amazing** – ever heard of the concept of “civil disobedience”? [sub] **MTCicero** – don’t hold back. Tell us how you REALLY feel.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judge-littlejohn/556326/140 "2010-10-10T18:32:15Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Enough with this bullshit hijack. Back to this redneck judge violating people’s civil rights. Is there any recourse for the victim here? Redneck? I thought that the rednecks of the American south revered the confederate flag, which would suggest to me that reverence for a facsimile of the union flag would be discouraged. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judge-littlejohn/556326.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-judge-littlejohn/556326.md?page=8)