# Fuck you, Kofi Annan. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 11, 2004, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238 "2004-11-11T18:28:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/1 "2004-11-11T18:28:59Z")
I realize we recently hosted an anti-Annan thread, but this latest outrage is just too much. I understand fully the need to be diplomatic in his particular job. But diplomacy shouldn’t mean completely papering over the violence and bloodshed caused by a terrorist. [A statement released today:](http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2004/sgsm9585.doc.htm) > [@](#): > > Secretary-General deeply moved at death of President Arafat > > The following statement was issued today by the Spokesman for Secretary-General Kofi Annan: > > The Secretary-General was deeply moved to learn of the death of President Yasser Arafat. President Arafat was one of those few leaders who could be instantly recognized by people in any walk of life all around the world. For nearly four decades, he expressed and symbolized in his person the national aspirations of the Palestinian people. > > President Arafat will always be remembered for having, in 1988, led the Palestinians to accept the principle of peaceful coexistence between Israel and a future Palestinian state. By signing the Oslo accords in 1993 he took a giant step towards the realization of this vision. It is tragic that he did not live to see it fulfilled. Now that he has gone, both Israelis and Palestinians, and the friends of both peoples throughout the world, must make even greater efforts to bring about the peaceful realization of the Palestinian right of self-determination. > > The Secretary-General’s deep-felt condolences go to his wife Suha and his young daughter Zahwa and to the Palestinian people. There are reports out of New York that the UN flag is at half-staff. Forgive me, but some acknowlegement of his actions in the past seems to be warranted here. Arafat killed thousands of people directly, inspired, through his methods, other terrorist groups that killed many more, and destabilized Arab governments that would have been sympathetic to his cause. Then too, he can’t be seen as an effective leader for his people after he was “elected” to lead the Palestinian Authority. It’s crap like this that lead so many people to fundamentally distrust the UN. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/2 "2004-11-11T18:42:09Z")
While I’m at it, a big fuck you too to [Jimmy Carter.](http://www.cartercenter.org/doc1893.htm) > [@](#): > > Yasser Arafat’s death marks the end of an era and will no doubt be painfully felt by Palestinians throughout the Middle East and elsewhere in the world. > > He was the father of the modern Palestinian nationalist movement. A powerful human symbol and forceful advocate, Palestinians united behind him in their pursuit of a homeland. While he provided indispensable leadership to a revolutionary movement and was instrumental in forging a peace agreement with Israel in 1993, he was excluded from the negotiating role in more recent years. > > My hope is that an emerging Palestinian leadership can benefit from Arafat’s experiences, be welcomed to the peace process by Prime Minister Sharon and President Bush, and be successful in helping to forge a Palestinian state living in harmony with their Israeli neighbors. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/3 "2004-11-11T18:46:19Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Forgive me, but some acknowlegement of his actions in the past seems to be warranted here. Arafat killed thousands of people directly, inspired, through his methods, other terrorist groups that killed many more So did Israel. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/4 "2004-11-11T18:46:54Z")
I actually agree with you. Only thing though is he can’t say anything bad, or nothing at all. He had to say _something_ ---
**Author:** ![omni-not](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8dc957/32.png) [@omni-not](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omni-not)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/5 "2004-11-11T18:53:39Z")
As for the flag being flown at half mast, I noticed that too this morning, where I live. Then I remembered it also was Armistice Day… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/6 "2004-11-11T19:01:16Z")
I understand that. And I don’t advocate shitting over Arafat in official statements right now. That wouldn’t help the situation much. However, these statements seem completely disconnected from the reality of the situation. Consider the statement from President Bush. It is decidedly cooler, and emphasized that Palestinians need to break from Arafat’s policies. > [@](#): > > The death of Yasser Arafat is a significant moment in Palestinian history. We express our condolences to the Palestinian people. For the Palestinian people, we hope that the future will bring peace and the fulfillment of their aspirations for an independent, democratic Palestine that is at peace with its neighbors. During the period of transition that is ahead, we urge all in the region and throughout the world to join in helping make progress toward these goals and toward the ultimate goal of peace. [From here.](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/11/20041111.html) Now, this too doesn’t explicitly mention terrorism. But it makes clear that Arafat wasn’t one of our favorite people, in the tortured language of diplomacy. Bill Clinton expressly stated that the Palestinians don’t have a state today because of Arafat’s actions. This is entirely correct, and needs saying. Too bad Jimmy Carter can’t bring himself to say it. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/7 "2004-11-11T19:02:32Z")
So all those glowing tributes to Regan should be ammended to include some of the bad shit he did too, right? Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/8 "2004-11-11T19:05:49Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I understand fully the need to be diplomatic in his particular job. But diplomacy shouldn’t mean completely papering over the violence and bloodshed caused by a terrorist. From George W. Bush: > [@](#): > > "We express our condolences to the Palestinian people. For the Palestinian people, we hope that the future will bring peace and the fulfillment of their aspirations for an independent, democratic Palestine that is at peace with its neighbors. > > “During the period of transition that is ahead, we urge all in the region and throughout the world to join in helping make progress toward these goals and toward the ultimate goal of peace.” I don’t see any acknowledgement there of his actions in the past. I agree that Arafat was a bad man. Fortunately for me, I’m not in an official position where I have to ignore that for the moment. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/9 "2004-11-11T19:11:46Z")
::shrug:: I’m, uh, no fan of Annan or of the UN[sup]1[/sup], but I can’t get upset about this. Arafat was the leader of a member non-state of the organization, and he’s dead. There are and will be plenty of opportunities to remember him as the brutal terrorist thug he really was, but it’s not Annan’s job to note it in his remarks immediately following the death. Look. Arafat’s death is the best thing to happen to the Palestinian people since Israel’s creation and allows for the real hope for peace and a country of Palestine. It just doesn’t make any sense to jeopardize that by bad-mouthing a dead guy simply because the Palesinians see him differently. Mr. Annan did exactly the right thing here. [sup]1[/sup]: All you other guys can stop trying to win the Understatement of the Month award – I’ve got it all wrapped up. ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/10 "2004-11-11T19:25:31Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > It’s crap like this that lead so many people to fundamentally distrust the UN. And this sort of crap is what makes the world fundamentally distrust the U.S. Since Arafat was elected and since Israel is an aparteid (sp?), why shouldn’t Annan mourn the passing of the only democratically-elected leader in the Middle East? The world looks a lot differenc when you drop the racism and start to think. ---
**Author:** ![Roseworm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@Roseworm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roseworm)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/11 "2004-11-11T19:29:17Z")
To **js\_africanus** : **???** ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/12 "2004-11-11T19:43:23Z")
**Manhattan** , I agree wholeheartedly, and thank you for your words of reason. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/13 "2004-11-11T19:57:26Z")
> [@js\_africanus](#): > > And this sort of crap is what makes the world fundamentally distrust the U.S. What crap are you refering to? > [@](#): > > Since Arafat was elected and since Israel is an aparteid (sp?), why shouldn’t Annan mourn the passing of the only democratically-elected leader in the Middle East? Really? When were the most recent Palestinian elections, and did the people know they ‘voted’ Arafat leader for life? And you do know that Israel has regular elections, don’t you? > [@](#): > > The world looks a lot differenc when you drop the racism and start to think. Fine advice. You should heed it. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/14 "2004-11-11T21:18:27Z")
> [@js\_africanus](#): > > …and since Israel is an apartheid… Sorry about the hijack, but this bit of baloney seems to come up in every thread that even mentions Israel. :mad: Israel is **not** guilty of apartheid, OK? Yes, non-Jewish citizens tend to get the short end of the stick in many cases, but this is like Blacks, Mexicans, Native Americans… in the present day US - **not** like historic South Africa, or even the Jim Crow days of US past. The Palestinians in the Occupied Territories are **not** Israeli citizens, and therefore do not have citizens’ rights… they are under occupation. Like millions of people in Iraq. There have been all kinds of attempts to figure out what to do about this occupation. Ultimately, there probably will be a Palestinian State where they can (hopefully) live their lives freely… but they are **not** second-class citizens because _they are not citizens of Israel at all!!!_ There is no such thing as second-class citizen status under Israeli law. **NO SUCH THING**. Non-Jewish citizens of Israel are **full** citizens with **full** rights (even if they tend to suffer from popular discrimination - which **is** a problem but **is not** apartheid). O.T. Palestinians are not citizens. It’s that simple. OK ? Dani ---
**Author:** ![Roseworm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@Roseworm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roseworm)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/15 "2004-11-11T21:59:58Z")
Diplomacy by its nature is the art of courteous deception. If you like frank, open discussions and candid statements, stay away from diplomats. The cool, neutral tone of the statement from the Bush administration struck exactly the right note - civil without gushing all over Arafat. In any case, here are some pertinent opinions on Mr. Arafat: [http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/gross200411110927.asp](http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/gross200411110927.asp) [http://www.nationalreview.com/babbin/babbin200411110045.asp](http://www.nationalreview.com/babbin/babbin200411110045.asp) [http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/mannes200411110933.asp](http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/mannes200411110933.asp) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/16 "2004-11-12T00:21:20Z")
I like what Bush said. He paid the amount of homage necessary to be diplomatic, and yet was able to avoid saying something overly nice about a man whose life was devoted to the terror bombing of children’s school busses (among other things). He was polite but noncommittal. Carter’s speech sucked. I would rewrite it to say: “He was the father of the modern terror movement and its methods. A powerful human symbol of what can be accomplished by murdering noncombatants and forceful advocate of wanton destruction, Palestinians united behind him in their pursuit of annihilation.” ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/17 "2004-11-12T00:51:28Z")
You guys watch Nixon’s funeral. I think your heads might have exploded. Conspicuous omissions of peoples past wrongdoings on the day of their death is the order of the day in politics, as it should be. And for the record, I don’t think I disagree with anything Annan or Carter said (that you quoted). Certainly some glaring omissions, but then I’m not sure I want an honest accounting of my faults in my eulogy either. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/18 "2004-11-12T05:23:00Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > Mr. Annan did exactly the right thing here. Thanks for pointing this out, before this I thought he was a total fuckup (serious on both accounts). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/19 "2004-11-12T06:10:51Z")
> [@Noone Special](#): > > There is no such thing as second-class citizen status under Israeli law. **NO SUCH THING**. Non-Jewish citizens of Israel are **full** citizens with **full** rights (even if they tend to suffer from popular discrimination - which **is** a problem but **is not** apartheid). O.T. Palestinians are not citizens. It’s that simple. > > OK ? > > Dani And as we all know, a _complete_ lack of citizenship is, of course, a far superior condition to second-class citizenship. For my stance on Arafat, see **Mtgman** ’s post re: Reagan. When a bad leader dies, he (or she) gets honored. That’s just the way it is. There will be ample time for smack-talking and even celebration in thirty-nine days. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/20 "2004-11-12T07:27:38Z")
> [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > And as we all know, a _complete_ lack of citizenship is, of course, a far superior condition to second-class citizenship. Deliberately represent what other people have said much? :rolleyes: I noted **very specifically** that having a large number of people under military occupation is **a problem** that needs resolving. Most likely by (ultimately) giving them their own state. But that is **not** a case of racial/ethnic segregation - You may have two brothers, one who stayed in Israel in 1948 and one who didn’t - one of which will be a full-fledged citizen, the other not a citizen at all. The one who is a citizen is equal to me before the law. Which part of my post did you misunderstand? Either that, or you have no idea what “_apartheid_” really means. Fitting username, though (joke, OK? ;)) Dani [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238.md?page=2)