# Fuck you, Kofi Annan. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 11, 2004, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238 "2004-11-11T18:28:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/21 "2004-11-12T07:30:31Z")
> [@Noone Special](#): > > Deliberately represent what other people have said much? :rolleyes: > I noted **very specifically** that having a large number of people under military occupation is **a problem** that needs resolving. Most likely by (ultimately) giving them their own state. But that is **not** a case of racial/ethnic segregation - You may have two brothers, one who stayed in Israel in 1948 and one who didn’t - one of which will be a full-fledged citizen, the other not a citizen at all. The one who is a citizen is equal to me before the law. Which part of my post did you misunderstand? Either that, or you have no idea what “_apartheid_” really means. > > Fitting username, though (joke, OK? ;)) > > Dani Read again. I never said _apartheid_; I made a snide comment about citizenship, or lack thereof. In my view the citizenship status of the residents of the occupied territories is a political issue, not a racial one. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/22 "2004-11-12T08:00:55Z")
> [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > Read again. I never said _apartheid_; I made a snide comment about citizenship, or lack thereof. In my view the citizenship status of the residents of the occupied territories is a political issue, not a racial one. And here we are completely in agreement. And that was exactly my point - I pointed out this fact to someone else who **did** use the term _apartheid_, implicitly saying that (s)he **did** accuse Israel of treating the issue as an ethnic one (it can’t be racial in any case… both nations are 99% caucasian). So what was the point of your little snipe there? IOW, I still think your pot-shot was uncalled for, but hey, it’s Friday, I’ve started my weekend and you’re almost there… Let it ride… 🙂 Dani ---
**Author:** ![sinical\_brit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/48db29/32.png) [@sinical\_brit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinical_brit)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/23 "2004-11-12T12:09:53Z")
Mr Moto - what EXACTLY is wrong or inaccurate in the quoted piece ? I seems to me that eveything in the Annan quote is factually correct and sincere. In Bushes speech: “During the period of transition that is ahead, we urge all in the region and throughout the world to join in helping make progress toward these goals and toward the ultimate goal of peace.” We will see if Bush includes America in that sentiment… Kofi says something, Bush says nothing. Kofi has to deal with these counties and groups evey day. Bush doesnt. Its a no brainer from where im sitting. So no. I dont agree that Annan’s statement warrents a "fuck you ". Sin ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/24 "2004-11-12T12:21:21Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > What crap are you refering to? Maybe the crap about praising one terrorist nation while damning another? > [@](#): > > Really? When were the most recent Palestinian elections, and did the people know they ‘voted’ Arafat leader for life? Maybe if they were allowed to have elections, they could have elected someone who wasn’t a terrorist. They aren’t allowed to hold elections, or even call themselves citizens of any country. You try that on for awhile. > [@Noone Special](#): > > it can’t be racial in any case… both nations are 99% caucasian Arabs might be considered white according to the US census, but it’s clear that preferential treatment is given to Israel because the Jews are “more white” than Arabs. At any rate it’s ethnicist, and isn’t that just as bad? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/25 "2004-11-12T12:47:29Z")
> [@js\_africanus](#): > > And this sort of crap is what makes the world fundamentally distrust the U.S. Since Arafat was elected and since Israel is an aparteid (sp?), why shouldn’t Annan mourn the passing of the only democratically-elected leader in the Middle East? The world looks a lot differenc when you drop the racism and start to think. Israel has been a democratic state since its creation, and is the only democratic state within the Middle East. Apartheid my ass. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/26 "2004-11-12T12:54:23Z")
> [@Noone Special](#): > > Sorry about the hijack, but this bit of baloney seems to come up in every thread that even mentions Israel. :mad: > > Israel is **not** guilty of apartheid, OK? Yes, non-Jewish citizens tend to get the short end of the stick in many cases, but this is like Blacks, Mexicans, Native Americans… in the present day US - **not** like historic South Africa, or even the Jim Crow days of US past. > i The refernce to apartheid generally doesn’t refer to Israeli arab citizens, but to the occupied territories, and their similarity with south african Bantoustans. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/27 "2004-11-12T13:09:06Z")
Here are some more appropriate words from the Australian PM > [@](#): > > “I think history will judge him very harshly for not having seized the opportunity in the year 2000 to embrace the offer that was very courageously made by the then Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, which involved the Israelis agreeing to about 90 per cent of what the Palestinians had wanted,” Mr Howard told Melbourne radio 3AW. > “I think if Arafat had grabbed hold of that opportunity in the dying days of the (US) Clinton administration then the path of things in the Middle East may have been smoother.” Here’s my eulogy: Arafat, a man who failed when it mattered. I suppose the Lacedonians have a more spartan one. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/28 "2004-11-12T13:28:34Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Israel has been a democratic state since its creation, and is the only democratic state within the Middle East. > > Apartheid my ass. Iran was a democratic state until the US helped impose the Shah by military coup. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/29 "2004-11-12T13:33:39Z")
Seeing how hard a time Sharon currently has trying to remove illegal settlements, how the hell was Barak going to deliver what he promised? The land Israel wanted to hold onto in that agreement was 60% of the arable land in the area and control of the water supplies. What good would it have done for the Palestinians to accept the deal if the land they got was useless? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/30 "2004-11-12T13:36:12Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > Iran was a democratic state until the US helped impose the Shah by military coup. Well, smart ass, Iran isn’t considered part of the Middle East. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/31 "2004-11-12T13:36:44Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > Seeing how hard a time Sharon currently has trying to remove illegal settlements, how the hell was Barak going to deliver what he promised? The land Israel wanted to hold onto in that agreement was 60% of the arable land in the area and control of the water supplies. What good would it have done for the Palestinians to accept the deal if the land they got was useless? What good did it do them to refuse? ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/32 "2004-11-12T13:41:01Z")
What good would it have done to accept? I don’t think calling the second intifada was a good idea, though. Hopefully the PA under a new leader can bring peace to the area. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/33 "2004-11-12T13:58:06Z")
heh… How about a chance for peace. 90% of what he demanded – even if it only contained 40% of the arable land (how does this square with the 90%?). Much of current Israel was unarable in 1948. Many countries in the middle east have insufficient water sources. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/34 "2004-11-12T14:18:13Z")
The deal offered would remove a huge degree of self sufficiency from a Palestinian state, and most importantly, controlled water supplies. It woul be impossible for irrigation projects to proceed without access to this land. > [@](#): > > Many countries in the middle east have insufficient water sources. And the deal would have added another to that list. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/35 "2004-11-12T14:30:51Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > The deal offered would remove a huge degree of self sufficiency from a Palestinian state, and most importantly, controlled water supplies. It woul be impossible for irrigation projects to proceed without access to this land. For want of perfect he opted for squalor. Once they had a state they could have bargained for water resource. Appealed to the UN and world opinion and common interests with the Israelis in seeing a prosperous region. They could have built a desalination plant in Gaza, expensive sure - but with the world watching I’m sure it could have been possible. Also it’s very possible there’s oil under the west bank. Etc. etc. They would have had many options. Now they have next to none. ---
**Author:** ![Balle\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/13edae/32.png) [@Balle\_M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balle_M)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/36 "2004-11-12T14:43:49Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > So all those glowing tributes to Regan should be ammended to include some of the bad shit he did too, right? > > Enjoy, > Steven Wow…what did Donald Regan do? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/37 "2004-11-12T15:27:17Z")
Spilled the beans about Nancy Reagan’s astrology readings, for one thing. Still, can’t be too upset at a man who served honorably his government, then retired to paint landscapes. He will be missed. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/38 "2004-11-12T15:47:28Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Well, smart ass, Iran isn’t considered part of the Middle East. WTF? Man, it’s amazing how you can be so sure when you know so little of what you’re talking about. Iran most certainly is part of the Middle East. You’re probably thinking that Iran is not an Arab nation, which is true. But the Middle East and Arab nations are not interchangable terms. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/39 "2004-11-12T16:42:25Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Well, smart ass, Iran isn’t considered part of the Middle East. In your head, perhaps. the rest of us who don’t talk out of our arses think differently. Rune, not for want of perfection, for want of survival. and given the fact that the UN is routinely ignored by Israel, what makes you thing they’d suddenly start listening? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238/40 "2004-11-12T17:51:01Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Well, smart ass, Iran isn’t considered part of the Middle East. Uh… [what](http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_east_and_asia/middle_east_pol_2003.jpg)? Turkey and North Africa are questionable, as are the more southerly former Soviet republics. Iran is about as Middle Eastern as you can get. _Smart Ass_. **Noone Special** , my point was that a blanket grant of citizenship to the (currently stateless) residents of the occupied territories might go some way toward defusing much of their hostility. Barak considered it; Sharon laughed it off. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-kofi-annan/274238.md?page=3)