# Fuck you, Maryland MVA **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 15, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-maryland-mva/731365 "2015-09-15T15:28:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![chizzuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chizzuk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chizzuk)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-maryland-mva/731365/21 "2015-09-16T04:44:50Z")
Maryland is known for this and has been for a long time. They particularly love to nail people who make the mistake of canceling their insurance before they return the plates. The insurance company notifies the MVA when the policy lapses, they check to see what date the plates were returned (if they were at all) and BAM, they get you for a few hundred bucks. When I moved back to Maryland from California, I spent hours anxiously scouring the CA DMV site for whatever I was missing because as a MD native, I simply couldn’t understand or believe that California didn’t seem to care about getting the plates back. I think you’re going to need to furnish actual documentation, not just tell them dates over the phone. I also think they may refuse to speak to you and tell you your mother has to be the one to call, since it’s her name on the notice. Good luck. My own mother has been dealing with a flag on her Maryland registration due to someone else’s unpaid parking ticket somehow getting attached to her license plate number and causing a mess every time she tries to renew the registration. Every 2 years she convinces them it’s a mistake and they let her renew, only for it to pop back up again 2 years later. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-maryland-mva/731365/22 "2015-09-16T15:19:54Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > The MVA will tell her what they need but I’m guessing she will need to provide the MVA a copy of her Texas registration and proof that the vehicle was insured during that time. She may need to get this from her insurance company. Proof of insurance and registration from 15 years ago? I can’t even remember who my last insurer was before my current one (in my head, I’ve narrowed it down to GEICO, Liberty Mutual, or State Farm). What do they expect, for you to file your expired insurance and registration cards in a notebook ‘just in case’. Sounds like someone was working dead files and did a LexisNexis search and found a current address (as any old notices would likely have gone to the wrong address). But any requests for that kind of record keeping 15 years after the fact would be utterly ridiculous (which isn’t to say a MVA drone won’t ask for them because that’s simply what his/her form says you need). ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-maryland-mva/731365/23 "2015-09-16T16:16:43Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > There is no statute of limitations for debts to government agencies, nor can they be discharged via bankruptcy. Not strictly true. I mean, I don’t know about state agencies, but you CAN discharge some income tax debt via bankruptcy: > **[Eliminating Tax Debts in Bankruptcy](http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/bankruptcy-tax-debts-eliminating-29550.html)** > > Most taxes can't be eliminated in bankruptcy, but some can. Find out which tax debts can be eliminated by filing for bankruptcy. One might make the argument in court that if Maryland had been more diligent in pursuing this crap, there would have been about 13 fewer years of fees / interest / penalties tacked onto the whole mess - and anything beyond the first year or so should be written off. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-maryland-mva/731365/24 "2015-09-16T16:26:03Z")
Wait they want you to give them back the PLATES? Revenue generation is bullshit in each and every one of its forms. This is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-maryland-mva/731365/25 "2015-09-16T16:53:13Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > **Proof of insurance and registration from 15 years ago?** I can’t even remember who my last insurer was before my current one (in my head, I’ve narrowed it down to GEICO, Liberty Mutual, or State Farm). What do they expect, for you to file your expired insurance and registration cards in a notebook ‘just in case’. > > Sounds like someone was working dead files and did a LexisNexis search and found a current address (as any old notices would likely have gone to the wrong address). But any requests for that kind of record keeping 15 years after the fact would be utterly ridiculous (which isn’t to say a MVA drone won’t ask for them because that’s simply what his/her form says you need). This is the part that’s been leaping out at me from these anecdotes. I wonder if the state isn’t counting on a substantial portion of their population being military (and therefore transient), and having a policy of letting cases sit open for several years before trying to track someone down and get them to pay fees that have had a LONG time to accrue. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-maryland-mva/731365/26 "2015-09-16T17:01:43Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > Not strictly true. I mean, I don’t know about state agencies, but you CAN discharge some income tax debt via bankruptcy: > > [Does Bankruptcy Clear Tax Debt? | Nolo](http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/bankruptcy-tax-debts-eliminating-29550.html) > > One might make the argument in court that if Maryland had been more diligent in pursuing this crap, there would have been about 13 fewer years of fees / interest / penalties tacked onto the whole mess - and anything beyond the first year or so should be written off. True. Allow me to revise: _The State of Maryland and its agencies_ are not subject to statutes of limitations, and this is not an income tax debt, so it cannot be discharged via bankruptcy. And it’s not 13 years of fees and interest, that would be well over $33,000. The penalty in this case is $150 for the first month and $7 a day **from July 1999 to October 2000** , which is 456 days times 7 plus 150 which is $3,342. Granted that’s well shy of the $4000 from the OP, but given the information available that’s the number we have. . ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-maryland-mva/731365/27 "2015-09-16T17:01:46Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > Wait they want you to give them back the PLATES? In DC, there used to be a whole big to-do about how people owned the plates, they do not stay with the car. If you disposed of your car, you HAD to return the plates to the DMV otherwise something would get screwed up. Fortunately, the DC DMV had some sense knocked into its head and now has much more rational policies regarding plates. Apparently this bit of common sense hasn’t hit Maryland. It’s crazy. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-maryland-mva/731365/28 "2015-09-16T17:09:04Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > And it’s not 13 years of fees and interest, that would be well over $33,000. The penalty in this case is $150 for the first month and $7 a day **from July 1999 to October 2000** , which is 456 days times 7 plus 150 which is $3,342. Granted that’s well shy of the $4000 from the OP, but given the information available that’s the number we have. Yep, the exact number is $3775.59, but they mention that they reserve the right to tack on collection fees, so I assume that’s what accounts for the few extra hundred. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-maryland-mva/731365/29 "2015-09-17T01:27:39Z")
If I recall correctly, Massachusetts has a similar system. But there, you get your plates from your insurance company directly. And you cannot cancel your insurance until you give the plates back. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-maryland-mva/731365/30 "2015-09-17T01:48:42Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I’m not in Maryland but I just looked it up. It is not a fine. It is a _fee._ Big difference. There is a fee from MVA that says they will charge $150 for the first 30 days and $7 a day after that for uninsured cars. That is a fee and not a fine so the worst they could do is suspend her license until it is paid. She may have been driving with a suspended MD license this whole time after she left. > > [http://www.mva.maryland.gov/vehicles/insurance/uninsured.htm](http://www.mva.maryland.gov/vehicles/insurance/uninsured.htm) What the…so they charge you a fee without even having to prove you broke a law by driving the car?! What if it was totaled, or something broke and it was up on bricks in a yard, or scrapped, or a million other ways a car can be not being driven. Thats crazy, I know in Texas my parents scrapped cars. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-maryland-mva/731365/31 "2015-09-17T01:54:57Z")
> [@OneCentStamp](#): > > I may be wrong about that, but I was under the impression that operating a motor vehicle on public roads without liability insurance was against the law anywhere in the U.S. Apparently not in New Hampshire, which I just discovered by watching Judge Judy this week. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-maryland-mva/731365/32 "2015-09-17T02:54:00Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-maryland-mva/731365/33 "2015-09-17T03:03:56Z")
> [@grude](#): > > What the…so they charge you a fee without even having to prove you broke a law by driving the car?! What if it was totaled, or something broke and it was up on bricks in a yard, or scrapped, or a million other ways a car can be not being driven. > > Thats crazy, I know in Texas my parents scrapped cars. In NY, there is a specific process for taking a titled car and declaring it scrap. So if the vehicle is salvage, you have to inform the DMV, get a “branded title”, and should it ever be repaired and recommissioned, that brand will still follow it (a “rebuilt salvage title”). ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-maryland-mva/731365/34 "2015-09-17T03:24:24Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Fortunately, the DC DMV had some sense knocked into its head and now has much more rational policies regarding plates. Apparently this bit of common sense hasn’t hit Maryland. It’s crazy. Why would they ever change? I’m sure a lot of people just pay these “fees.” It sounds like a great scam. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-maryland-mva/731365/35 "2015-09-17T03:35:38Z")
> [@grude](#): > > What the…so they charge you a fee without even having to prove you broke a law by driving the car?! What if it was totaled, or something broke and it was up on bricks in a yard, or scrapped, or a million other ways a car can be not being driven. > > Thats crazy, I know in Texas my parents scrapped cars. Having a car registered in MD without insurance is against the law, not just driving it without insurance or tags. Keeping the tags qualifies as having the vehicle registered even if you no longer are in possession of the vehicle. That’s why they’re called registration tags by the MVA. If you aren’t going to drive it, you need to return the tags if you don’t want to be penalized for canceling insurance. If something happens to the car or vehicle, you have to deal with the MD MVA. They have (sometimes onerous) procedures to show you can’t return the tags. For example, if it’s totaled you need a letter from the insurance company stating such. If the tags are stolen, I believe you have to notify the police and give the MVA a copy of the police report. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-maryland-mva/731365/36 "2015-09-17T16:15:00Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Proof of insurance and registration from 15 years ago? > [@grude](#): > > What the…so they charge you a fee without even having to prove you broke a law by driving the car?! That’s one reason the scam targets the ancient past – it’s much harder to gather evidence to refute the claim. > [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Why would they ever change? I cynically suspect that the reason DC changed its ways is that the scammers were foolish enough to target a Congresscritter or other VIP. In time, the same may happen to the Old Line State. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-maryland-mva/731365.md?page=1)