# Fuck you Palsgraf and the train you never rode out on! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 27, 2001, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-palsgraf-and-the-train-you-never-rode-out-on/70392 "2001-06-27T23:50:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2001, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-palsgraf-and-the-train-you-never-rode-out-on/70392/1 "2001-06-27T23:50:46Z")
Yeah, bitch, you heard me right. Fuck you. Fuck your daughter Elizabeth. Fuck your poor reflexes that couldn’t get your large ass out of the way when the scales came tumbling your way. Well guess what? The scales of justice didn’t tumble your way either but thanks to your litigious mindset, I had to spend 3 hours reading and rereading 12 pages of the most insane legalese ever to grace God’s green tort book. You couldn’t have sued the guy who brought the fireworks to begin with? Would that have been too fucking difficult? What in the hell did the railroad have to do with anything? God damnit woman, would you make it easy on us and be logical about your lawsuits! And fuck you Cordozo! You thought I’d forget about you, hiding back there in the corner. What? You think you’re so high and mighty there with your black robe on playing God to the men and women who come before you? Well comb your hair, sit the fuck down and listen to me. Your shit ain’t smelling like roses here. YOU MAKE NO SENSE! NONE! “The risk reasonably to be perceived defines the duty to be obeyed and risk imports relation. It is risk to another or to others within the range of apprehension.” That’s the 20th time I’ve read that and I still can’t tell if you wrote the opinion in Swahili. You wanna see Proximate Cause? Bend over. Your assholes going flying across the room is proximately caused by my insertion of scales and fireworks up your rectum. Good day. ---
**Author:** ![Sapphire\_Bullet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@Sapphire\_Bullet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapphire_Bullet)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-palsgraf-and-the-train-you-never-rode-out-on/70392/2 "2001-06-28T01:13:22Z")
I **told** you this case was a bitch. **DAMN** I wish I was in law school. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-palsgraf-and-the-train-you-never-rode-out-on/70392/3 "2001-06-28T05:34:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Enderw24 \* > \*\* > “The risk reasonably to be perceived defines the duty to be obeyed and risk imports relation. It is risk to another or to others within the range of apprehension.” > > That’s the 20th time I’ve read that and I still can’t tell if you wrote the opinion in Swahili. \*\* Pah. > [@](#): > > In other words, when split ergativity is based on the semantic and/or pragmatic characteristics of the noun phrases, it will always be the case that noun phrases higher (to the left) on the topic-worthiness hierarchy will trigger a nominative/accusative subsystem, while noun phrases lower (to the right) on the hierarchy will trigger an ergative/absolutive subsystem. Payne, T, _Describing Morphosyntax_, p. 154. And I’m reading this for **fun.** ---
**Author:** ![MysterEcks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@MysterEcks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysterEcks)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-palsgraf-and-the-train-you-never-rode-out-on/70392/4 "2001-06-28T06:03:37Z")
Ah, torts. This is an interesting thread, since most of the people who read it won’t know what the hell you’re talking about. > [@](#): > > What in the hell did the railroad have to do with anything? Come on, **Ender** , you know the answer to this–the railroad had the big bucks. Deep pockets attract lawsuits like dog shit attracts flies–I mean, who the hell would sue _you_if they spilled your hot coffee on themselves? (And that’s C **a** rdozo, by the way.) ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Zero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@Saint\_Zero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Zero)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-palsgraf-and-the-train-you-never-rode-out-on/70392/5 "2001-06-28T06:07:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\*Pah. > > > [@](#): > > > > In other words, when split ergativity is based on the semantic and/or pragmatic characteristics of the noun phrases, it will always be the case that noun phrases higher (to the left) on the topic-worthiness hierarchy will trigger a nominative/accusative subsystem, while noun phrases lower (to the right) on the hierarchy will trigger an ergative/absolutive subsystem. > > Payne, T, _Describing Morphosyntax_, p. 154. > > And I’m reading this for **fun.** \*\* It made sense to me. Okay… I’m going to bed, I’ve obviously been up too long. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-palsgraf-and-the-train-you-never-rode-out-on/70392/6 "2001-06-28T06:19:48Z")
Enderw, I got called on during this (and Wagon Mound, which was not only incomprehensible, but not even American, as some kind of evil causation theme) So I feel your pain. ---
**Author:** ![Redboss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8baadc/32.png) [@Redboss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redboss)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-palsgraf-and-the-train-you-never-rode-out-on/70392/7 "2001-06-28T06:34:55Z")
This wouldn’t have a tenuous connection with a snail in a ginger beer bottle, would it? ---
**Author:** ![Mystery\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@Mystery\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mystery_Dog)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-palsgraf-and-the-train-you-never-rode-out-on/70392/8 "2001-06-28T13:27:20Z")
My torts prof in law school told us some details about the Palsgraf case that didn’t make it into the opinion. I suspect this is an urban legend that the prof swallowed, but here it is: After seeing the explosion, Mrs. Palsgraf got her daughter to look away for a few seconds. The daughter heard a thump, followed by her mother’s pained moans. Nobody actually saw the scales hit Mrs P. The prof’s implication: Mrs. P pulled the scales down on herself when no one was looking, intentionally causing her own injuries in order to set up a nice juicy lawsuit. Personally, I don’t believe it. But wouldn’t it just be poetic if the most famous case in the history of tort law was a big scam? ---
**Author:** ![Jester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jester/32/8223_2.png) [@Jester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jester)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-palsgraf-and-the-train-you-never-rode-out-on/70392/9 "2001-06-28T14:55:17Z")
Count me in as having no clue what’s going on. Still, I’m gonna take a wild guess and say that this was a case that’s used in law school as an example of…something or other? But scales? Fireworks? Trains? I’m lost. Just thought I’d share. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Zappo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b3f665/32.png) [@Zappo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zappo)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-palsgraf-and-the-train-you-never-rode-out-on/70392/10 "2001-06-28T15:38:11Z")
Ah, yes, how I remember the lovely Mrs. Palsgraf and her encounter with the scales. Simply add a Torts professor with the personality of Ben Stein on downers and you have my first year down perfectly! By the time you get to such shining gems of property law as _Pierson v. Post_, the Rule Against Perpetuities, and shifting vs. springing executory interests you’ll wish _Palsgraf_ was all you had to deal with. Welcome to the Beast. But don’t worry, it gets better from here. Yer pal, Zappo ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-palsgraf-and-the-train-you-never-rode-out-on/70392/11 "2001-06-28T17:05:05Z")
Ender, honey, just remember that you’re the one who chose to do this. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-palsgraf-and-the-train-you-never-rode-out-on/70392/12 "2001-06-28T17:08:45Z")
After careful analysis, I’ve come to the conclusion that I don’t care if he spells his name Cardozo, he’s still a wanker. and yeah, **amarinth** , what the hell we learning about those Brits for anyway? Isn’t that why we fought the revolution? My only sollace is that they used reasoning from the Polemis case and _still_ couldn’t get the decision right. And a belated fuck you to Andrews for not agreeing with Cardozo and giving me 4 and a half more pages to read. I mean…my god! Your opinion has no legal binding authority and it’s LONGER than the official opinion! I’m surprised Palsgraf could squeeze her ass into the courtroom with your ego taking up that much room. My compliments to Kellogg for not only having the decency to shut up and agree, but for also making some damn fine breakfast cereals. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-palsgraf-and-the-train-you-never-rode-out-on/70392/13 "2001-06-28T22:24:42Z")
The basic problem with the Palsgraf Case, known to those of the profession who are beyond caring as “Helen v. Railroad,” is that the case is simply incomprehensible. Cardozo, J., carries on for page after page in what appears to be standard, albeit somewhat stilted, English. The opinion scans nicely but when you try to read it you quickly find that it just doesn’t compute. Forget the case, go read the Restatement, Section 281. My personal opinion is that the decision is the pay off on a bet. Cardozo lost a bet that Coolidge would run for president. The loser was required to draft and file a decision that made no sense but reached a sustainable conclusion and used up a least 20 pages of type script. The joke was that the decision had to be such that generations of law students and teachers would drive themselves barking mad trying to conjure an iota of rational analysis out of this pile of unadulterated balderdash. Remember, even Leonardo did an occasional bad painting. ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2001, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-palsgraf-and-the-train-you-never-rode-out-on/70392/14 "2001-06-29T03:33:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Redboss \* > \*\*This wouldn’t have a tenuous connection with a snail in a ginger beer bottle, would it? > > \*\* I’m such a nerd, I _got_ this. Relating to products and completed operations liability. Ugh.