# Fuck You, Prop 8 Supporters! Also: Fuck You, Dishonest News Media **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 6, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433 "2010-08-06T18:15:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/181 "2010-08-10T15:55:28Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > > [@Jenaroph](#): > > > > And not one person there will be pedantic enough to say “well, it’s not really a real _marriage_.” Why? Because the distinction is silly. If it’s in every way equal to a marriage, then it’s a marriage, and most people won’t feel the need to use new cumbersome phrases for an old concept. > > Oh, there’ll be one. There’s always one. Just like there’s always the guy who gets drunk and hits on the bride. Yeah, OK, but everybody already knows that guy’s an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/182 "2010-08-10T16:02:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The government is empowered to protect certain of our rights - those specifically mentioned in the Constitution. This does not disparage other rights - the government may not act either to assist or restrict those rights. You have the right, as you say, to go to a baseball game. The government may neither stop you from going, nor buy you season tickets. So, you have the right to get married, and the government may neither stop you from getting married, nor give out financial benefits for marriage? You’d better run down to the IRS and Social Security offices and get them straightened out on that latter point… ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/183 "2010-08-11T20:46:59Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > > > I don’t know if it does, because these complaints/incidents all happened without gay marriage. So this isn’t gay marriage imposiing on people who oppose it. This is anti-discrimination laws imposing on people who want to discriminate. But that’s what anti-discrimination laws are designed to do; impose on people who discriminate and force them to stop discriminating. > > My point tho is that with the spread of gay marriage, we’re going to see a lot more “gay rights vs. religious rights” conflicts & I’m afraid that the latter may take a beating. I been away, doing other stuff. But I want to get a bit confrontational here and holler “bullshit”. There’s nothing in this ummm thing that imposes on any of your “religious rights”. Nothing telling you what church to to go or not go to. Nothing telling you what to believe or not believe. Nothing telling you you have to officiate at a gay marraige or be in a gay marriage. There’s nothing impeding your right to do or not do anything at all. So, Bull Shit. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/184 "2010-08-11T20:52:47Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > > [@FriarTed](#): > > > > One side believes sexual orientation is what you are while religious/philosophical identity is what you choose to believe. Thus, sexuality is a set part of your identity while religion/philos is a changeable matter of preference. > > > > The other side see one’s religious/philosophical stance/values as more intrinsic to what a person is, while sexuality is more a matter of how people choose to act, tho perhaps based on unchosen feelings. > > > > So the first side sees sexuality trumping religion/philosophy while the second reverses it. > > Interesting take, but I think you’re excluding a vast group of people in the middle who don’t have one “trump” over the other and see both as deserving of anti-discrimination protections. More importantly, which “side” are you on? You didn’t mention. > > > [@Friar Ted](#): > > > > Oh- and gayness still isn’t a racial identity. Tho I’m not so sure that it’s not becoming a religious one. > > I think describing sexual preference/identity as becoming “religious” is kinda missing the point. I’m more interested in why you seem to think it is OK to discriminate on the basis of one, but perhaps not on the basis of the other. It’s all about WHO is being discriminated against. If it’s you, then everything is fine. If it’s me, then it’s bad. Did I pass the test? ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/185 "2010-08-11T21:10:34Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > > [@FriarTed](#): > > > > My point tho is that with the spread of gay marriage, we’re going to see a lot more “gay rights vs. religious rights” conflicts & I’m afraid that the latter may take a beating. > > I been away, doing other stuff. But I want to get a bit confrontational here and holler “bullshit”. > There’s nothing in this ummm thing that imposes on any of your “religious rights”. Nothing telling you what church to to go or not go to. Nothing telling you what to believe or not believe. Nothing telling you you have to officiate at a gay marraige or be in a gay marriage. There’s nothing impeding your right to do or not do anything at all. I believe **FriarTed** might be referring to laws regarding public accomidations. I guess he’s making a parallel between certain religious groups and those poor, poor racist restaurant owners who were forced to serve black people that came in to eat. Bless his heart. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/186 "2010-08-11T21:17:04Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > > [@SteveG1](#): > > > > I been away, doing other stuff. But I want to get a bit confrontational here and holler “bullshit”. > > There’s nothing in this ummm thing that imposes on any of your “religious rights”. Nothing telling you what church to to go or not go to. Nothing telling you what to believe or not believe. Nothing telling you you have to officiate at a gay marraige or be in a gay marriage. There’s nothing impeding your right to do or not do anything at all. > > I believe **FriarTed** might be referring to laws regarding public accomidations. I guess he’s making a parallel between certain religious groups and those poor, poor racist restaurant owners who were forced to serve black people that came in to eat. > > Bless his heart. OK, it’s a variation of the old “I have nothing aginst ni\*\*ers so long as they stay on their side of the tracks” argument. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/187 "2010-08-11T21:18:11Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > My point tho is that with the spread of gay marriage, we’re going to see a lot more “gay rights vs. religious rights” conflicts & I’m afraid that the latter may take a beating Depends on which religion, or sect, or subsect, you’re talking about, don’t it? You may or may not be aware of the existence of a number of religious faiths, even Christian ones (!), who actually support equal rights, in accordance with Jesus’ commandment that we all love our neighbors as ourselves. Following Christ won’t take a beating, but using religion as a pretext for hatred certainly will. And that is perhaps as Christ would want it, hmm? ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/188 "2010-08-13T07:45:15Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You may or may not be aware of the existence of a number of religious faiths, even Christian ones (!), who actually support equal rights, in accordance with Jesus’ commandment that we all love our neighbors as ourselves. Following Christ won’t take a beating, but using religion as a pretext for hatred certainly will. And that is perhaps as Christ would want it, hmm? Didn’t Jesus also say that God was the only one who got to judge people? It seems to me that judging someone (and denying them rights) for being a homosexual is not too Christian either. ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/189 "2010-08-13T12:41:34Z")
And every one knows Jesus was queer right? He even had a male hareem (or disciples as they are more commonly known). And have you seen his hair! So gay. Seriously, gay marriage doesn’t hurt straight people. Why the hell would you be against other people getting something that makes them happy when it has no impact on you whatsoever? That’s just being mean. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/190 "2010-08-13T15:40:55Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > > [@magellan01](#): > > > > I meant this in the context of relationships. In which case it seeks to ignore the genders involved. There are zero examples of societies doing this. The man-woman union that we know to be marriage would be replaced with a person-person union. The institution would be gender agnostic. > > Actually, this just highlights how unusual marriage is in that it’s one of the very few aspects of government in which gender is significant at all. Over the last century or so, gender barriers once thought of as unbreakable natural law have fallen, allowing (among other things) women to vote, women to hold elected office, women to be Senators, Supreme Court justices, cabinet members… A woman hasn’t (yet) been Vice-President or President, but I can easily imagine it within the next 20 years. There was a time, not too long ago, when any of this would have seemed utterly ridiculous and unfathomable. It turned out, though, that the barriers ultimately served no purpose. What purpose does the barrier you support serve? > > > [@](#): > > > > To reference an analogy I made upthread, banana+apple does not equal banana+banana. Add some ice cream to either and in the first case you get an apple-banana shake. In the second case, a banana shake. To different things. > > Apple-banana shakes will still exist unchanged, though, and will remain (by far) the most common flavour of shake through the foreseeable future. How the addition of banana shakes changes this remains unclear. As far as I can tell, it just makes life easier for people who don’t like apples, and I’m not sure sure why we should oppose that. Excellent post. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/191 "2010-08-13T15:43:08Z")
> [@Baboonanza](#): > > Seriously, gay marriage doesn’t hurt straight people. Why the hell would you be against other people getting something that makes them happy when it has no impact on you whatsoever? That’s just being mean. _Because_ if marriage includes people of the SS, the bigots, er ‘reasonable definitionarians’ will be unable to distinguish male from female. I believe it will effect their vision somehow. Then cats will marry dogs and the whole world will come unglued. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/192 "2010-08-16T18:51:31Z")
I have a general question about SSM, which I support as an civil right that is currently being denied to gay couples. Just out of idle curiouslty, how do SS married couples refer to their spouse? Are both men husbands? Both women wife? Is it the non gender term partner? ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/193 "2010-08-16T18:57:10Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > IJust out of idle curiouslty, how do SS married couples refer to their spouse? > > Are both men husbands? Both women wife? This is what I’ve been hearing. I think they would naturally prefer not to use “partner” for a spouse, since that’s the term they had to resort to _faut de mieux_ before SSM. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/194 "2010-08-16T19:01:50Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > > > You may or may not be aware of the existence of a number of religious faiths, even Christian ones (!), who actually support equal rights, in accordance with Jesus’ commandment that we all love our neighbors as ourselves. Following Christ won’t take a beating, but using religion as a pretext for hatred certainly will. And that is perhaps as Christ would want it, hmm? > > Didn’t Jesus also say that God was the only one who got to judge people? It seems to me that judging someone (and denying them rights) for being a homosexual is not too Christian either. This is pretty much my take on the SSM issue and the abortion issue. Choose for yourself and allow others the same privilage knowing that according to your faith, God will judge. People justify it by claiming it’s just the beginning of laws that will legalize moral depravity. It’s ridiculous and completely unjustified by any evidence at all. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/195 "2010-08-16T20:42:04Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Just out of idle curiouslty, how do SS married couples refer to their spouse? > > Are both men husbands? Both women wife? Is it the non gender term partner? In my state, where we’ve had it in place for over five years (and without the sky falling or straight marriages being perceptibly debased either), it’s become commonplace to refer to a man’s husband or a woman’s wife. But the couple’s own preference probably ought to take precedence. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/196 "2010-08-16T21:26:50Z")
The supporters of the gay marriage ban really made clear their intellectual bankruptcy in the argument they made before the federal appeals court today: > [@](#): > > In addition, the state’s interest in promoting responsible procreation through heterosexual marriages would be harmed if gay marriages were permitted while the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals reviews a previous ruling that overturned Proposition 8, lawyers contended in legal filings. > > “The record leaves no doubt, none at all, that California, 44 other states, and the vast majority of countries throughout the world continue to draw the line at marriage because it continues to serve a vital societal interest that is equally ubiquitous — to channel potentially procreative sexual relationships into enduring, stable unions for the sake of responsibly producing and raising the next generation,” the lawyers wrote. That anyone could even make this argument with a straight face is unbelievable to me. It continues the same type of ridiculous, zero-sum beliefs as so many other anti-gay-marriage arguments. The idea that letting gays marry somehow reduces the significance of straight marriage, or reduces the likelihood of “procreative sexual relationships,” is completely preposterous. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/197 "2010-08-16T22:03:29Z")
Yeah, it has all the coherence and plausibility of a stoned high schooler’s ad-libbed oral report on what he forgot was finals day. And they had \*months \*to come up with something, which is… just sad. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/198 "2010-08-16T23:43:20Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Yeah, it has all the coherence and plausibility of a stoned high schooler’s ad-libbed oral report on what he forgot was finals day. And they had \*months \*to come up with something, which is… just sad. Meh, that analogy assumes that there is in fact a food oral report to be done, given the right preparation and research. I would say this more like spending months planning an assault on Troy, except you don’t have any wooden ships or soldiers or armaments of any kind, so you throw rocks you find lying on the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/199 "2010-08-17T14:49:13Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > > [@Shodan](#): > > > > Marriage is a public act. > > If you can’t distinguish between “state” and “society”, then the only proper response to any political bloviation you might emit is to point and laugh. I am not sure what you are talking about, because I suspect neither do you. In what way does pointing out that marriage is a public act, in the sense that there are things like marriage licenses and so on, imply that there is no distinction between the state, and society? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/200 "2010-08-17T16:54:11Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > The supporters of the gay marriage ban really made clear their intellectual bankruptcy in the argument they made before the federal appeals court today: > > > [@](#): > > > > In addition, the state’s interest in promoting responsible procreation through heterosexual marriages would be harmed if gay marriages were permitted while the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals reviews a previous ruling that overturned Proposition 8, lawyers contended in legal filings. > > > > “The record leaves no doubt, none at all, that California, 44 other states, and the vast majority of countries throughout the world continue to draw the line at marriage because it continues to serve a vital societal interest that is equally ubiquitous — to channel potentially procreative sexual relationships into enduring, stable unions for the sake of responsibly producing and raising the next generation,” the lawyers wrote. > > That anyone could even make this argument with a straight face is unbelievable to me. It continues the same type of ridiculous, zero-sum beliefs as so many other anti-gay-marriage arguments. The idea that letting gays marry somehow reduces the significance of straight marriage, or reduces the likelihood of “procreative sexual relationships,” is completely preposterous. The opposition to SSM has always had the strong “headed for the dustbin of history” stink on it, like arguments against interracial marriage and such, as I’m sure I’m not the first to point out. But man, can’t even the people still against SSM smell the funk rising off statements like that? Aren’t they asking each other, “what’s that dust-binny smell?” Has there been even one documented example of person who said something like “I was going to ignore my gay feelings and get married to a woman and have a stable family life raising kids, but then I heard that same-sex marriage was going to be legal! I mentally aborted that hypothetical genius savior child, and now I’m living in the Village!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433.md?page=11)