# Fuck You, Prop 8 Supporters! Also: Fuck You, Dishonest News Media **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 6, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433 "2010-08-06T18:15:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/241 "2010-08-18T21:00:30Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > > > That you have declined to do so, in the face of multiple invitations to do so, is likely to result in a consensus opinion that you have, in fact, “ceded” the point. > > I couldn’t care less if the consenus opinion was that I ceded any point by my refusal to start yet another SSM debate. Really? You couldn’t? > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > > > Good thing, that, because it obviously isn’t about explaining _why_ you believe it’s right. That ground you’ve already ceded. > > Did I say any of that? Can I not make a specific point witout having to reiterate the whole argument? > Or was that your horribly failed way of trying to be clever? > Maybe I’ve also conceded that putting mayo on a hot dog is wrong, since I didn’t mention it. Here, you seem to take exception to the suggestion that you have ceded anything wrt SSM. Conversing with you can be a very confusing experience, did anyone ever tell you that? ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/242 "2010-08-18T22:43:23Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > There is no hatred in my heart for gays. > I also agree that living in a free country means all of that. We disagree on the “actual harm” part. Okay, well define the actual harm bit then. What is the actual, measurable, harmful effect of same-sex marriage? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/243 "2010-08-18T22:45:01Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > > > There is no hatred in my heart for gays. > > I also agree that living in a free country means all of that. We disagree on the “actual harm” part. > > Okay, well define the actual harm bit then. What is the actual, measurable, harmful effect of same-sex marriage? Teh gay is icky! -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/244 "2010-08-18T23:03:54Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > The shock is palpable. > > And this entire meandering derailment of yours originated from an initial red herring mischaracterization of **Revtim** ’s comment. He wasn’t asking “why people bother fighting for what they believe in,” he was asking “aren’t SSM opponents embarrassed that this idiotic argument is the \*best \*they can come up with?” > > I have absolutely no misconceptions “why they fight” or “what they believe in,” although I frankly couldn’t give less of a shit. Anyone with a functioning brain knows they ain’t opposed to fags getting hitched because of the risk of planet-wide extinction. Apparently the red herring was too delicious a morsel for y’all to pass. > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Really? You couldn’t? > > Here, you seem to take exception to the suggestion that you have ceded anything wrt SSM. > > Conversing with you can be a very confusing experience, did anyone ever tell you that? I was being ironic. Confusing? All the time. tend to happen when I’m right an the other guys keep banging their heads. > [@Meyer6](#): > > > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > > > There is no hatred in my heart for gays. > > I also agree that living in a free country means all of that. We disagree on the “actual harm” part. > > Okay, well define the actual harm bit then. What is the actual, measurable, harmful effect of same-sex marriage? I do not wish to do so. If I said “SMM will make apples smaller” that’ll start 200 more replies saying that even if true oranges would be sweeter, and I have no intentions of particiapting in such a thread. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/245 "2010-08-18T23:14:16Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > > [@Meyer6](#): > > > > Okay, well define the actual harm bit then. > > I do not wish to do so. Because you can’t. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/246 "2010-08-18T23:14:52Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > Here, you seem to take exception to the suggestion that you have ceded anything wrt SSM. Conversing with you can be a very confusing experience, did anyone ever tell you that? [/QUOTE] > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I was being ironic. > Confusing? All the time. tend to happen when I’m right an the other guys keep banging their heads. You’ve been right before? Well, could you link to that? ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/247 "2010-08-18T23:53:16Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > > > I do not wish to do so. > > Because you can’t. ..and in order to prove you underline it. Well done. Good for you. > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > You’ve been right before? > > Well, could you link to that? I don’t like braggin’ ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/248 "2010-08-19T00:01:00Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > > [@Meyer6](#): > > > > Okay, well define the actual harm bit then. What is the actual, measurable, harmful effect of same-sex marriage? > > I do not wish to do so. > If I said “SMM will make apples smaller” that’ll start 200 more replies saying that even if true oranges would be sweeter, and I have no intentions of particiapting in such a thread. Funny how you don’t want to have this argument, when this is the exact argument that will determine the outcome of this whole mess. If the people legally defending Prop 8 are as reluctant as you are to actually DEFINE their position (i.e. why the overturning of Prop 8 should be itself overturned), then the appeal will be over in 15 minutes. Talk about not fighting for what you believe is right. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/249 "2010-08-19T00:27:18Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > > Because you can’t. > > ..and in order to prove you underline it. The miserable failure of the people who claim such harm exists to provide evidence for such harm is the proof. You are just another failed defender of bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/250 "2010-08-19T00:34:30Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > > [@Meyer6](#): > > > > Okay, well define the actual harm bit then. What is the actual, measurable, harmful effect of same-sex marriage? > > I do not wish to do so. > If I said “SMM will make apples smaller” that’ll start 200 more replies saying that even if true oranges would be sweeter, and I have no intentions of particiapting in such a thread. Stop with the stupid analogies and just tell us what will happen to society if same sex marriage is legal. If the only thing that will happen is that religious zealots will feel like people they don’t even know are committing moral wrongs, then that is not an argument. You are free to your religious beliefs. You are not entitled to inflict them on other people who don’t share them. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/251 "2010-08-19T01:07:12Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > Funny how you don’t want to have this argument, when this is the exact argument that will determine the outcome of this whole mess. If the people legally defending Prop 8 are as reluctant as you are to actually DEFINE their position (i.e. why the overturning of Prop 8 should be itself overturned), then the appeal will be over in 15 minutes. Talk about not fighting for what you believe is right. “The previous argument was brought you 2nd grade, were goading actually works”. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The miserable failure of the people who claim such harm exists to provide evidence for such harm is the proof. You are just another failed defender of bigotry. Failing to achieve something you didn’t set out to do is really no demerit. Look, I’ve just failed free-diving all the way down the Marianas Trench! > [@Meyer6](#): > > Stop with the stupid analogies and just tell us what will happen to society if same sex marriage is legal. > If the only thing that will happen is that religious zealots will feel like people they don’t even know are committing moral wrongs, then that is not an argument. You are free to your religious beliefs. You are not entitled to inflict them on other people who don’t share them. I don’t want to stop with the stupid analogies, they are great. Imagine that instead of stupid analogies I gave you Vermillion flycatchers, would you also be angry? (and in Lima we even get lots of of sooty-morph ones) Why do you suppose my arguments are religous? By the way, inflicting one’s ideas on others is a staple of democracy ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/252 "2010-08-19T02:00:42Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > > [@Meyer6](#): > > > > Stop with the stupid analogies and just tell us what will happen to society if same sex marriage is legal. > > If the only thing that will happen is that religious zealots will feel like people they don’t even know are committing moral wrongs, then that is not an argument. You are free to your religious beliefs. You are not entitled to inflict them on other people who don’t share them. > > I don’t want to stop with the stupid analogies, they are great. Imagine that instead of stupid analogies I gave you Vermillion flycatchers, would you also be angry? (and in Lima we even get lots of of sooty-morph ones) > Why do you suppose my arguments are religous? > By the way, inflicting one’s ideas on others is a staple of democracy What? Look, just lose all the other crap. Tell us what actual, measurable harm is caused by same-sex marriage. That’s the crux of your argument and yet you won’t explain it. That’s pretty damn weak. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/253 "2010-08-19T02:24:15Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > > > I don’t want to stop with the stupid analogies, they are great. Imagine that instead of stupid analogies I gave you Vermillion flycatchers, would you also be angry? (and in Lima we even get lots of of sooty-morph ones) > > Why do you suppose my arguments are religous? > > By the way, inflicting one’s ideas on others is a staple of democracy > > What? > > Look, just lose all the other crap. Tell us what actual, measurable harm is caused by same-sex marriage. That’s the crux of your argument and yet you won’t explain it. That’s pretty damn weak. I’m beginning to suspect that **Aji** ’s purpose here isn’t to have an honest debate. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/254 "2010-08-19T04:01:53Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > [QUOTE=Der Trihs] > The miserable failure of the people who claim such harm exists to provide evidence for such harm is the proof. You are just another failed defender of bigotry. Failing to achieve something you didn’t set out to do is really no demerit. [/quote] You are trying to defend opposition to SSM, which means you are trying to defend bigotry. > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Why do you suppose my arguments are religous? They are either religiously motivated bigotry, some other form of bigotry, or trolling. There are no reasons to oppose SSM which do not boil down to one form of malice or another; which is no doubt why you refuse to state the supposed objective harm caused by SSM; you know quite well there is none. > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > By the way, inflicting one’s ideas on others is a staple of democracy This is a constitutional republic; not mob rule. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/255 "2010-08-19T13:36:55Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > By the way, inflicting one’s ideas on others is a staple of democracy So what you’re saying is, you can only get off by sodomizing infants— and only after you’ve drugged and bound them with duct tape to incapacitate them, so they can’t kick your ass while you’re trying to locate your penis? I disagree with your lifestyle, but admire your candor. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/256 "2010-08-19T15:36:49Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > [QUOTE=Revtim] > It’s really quite simple. If nobody can come up with a reasonable explanation why something is bad, then it’s good or neutral and should not be against the law. > > A minimally objective person should be able to see that “to channel potentially procreative sexual relationships into enduring, stable unions for the sake of responsibly producing and raising the next generation” is pure idiocy for several reasons. > > 1. The people who are denied SSM are still gay, and are not going to find themselves “channeled” into the hetero “potentially procreative” relations being referred to. > > 2. There’s no evidence that same sex union isn’t less stable or enduring or cannot produce and raise the next generation. In fact, there’s evidence that children of lesbian parents do _better_ than their peers. And having more couples that would need to adopt is a _good_ thing, unless there has been some shortage of orphans I haven’t heard of yet. By “reasonable” you mean “reasonable for me”. [/QUOTE] Reasonable as in “supported by reliable data and/or basic logic that isn’t obviously refuted with 10 seconds of thought”. Which refutes the harm alleged by the Prop 8 defender quoted earlier in the thread. And I’m sure it refutes this mysterious harm you refuse to actually state, giving you the benefit of the doubt that your argument isn’t just “a homo says what?” spoken quickly. > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I don’t know where the whole “to channel…” stuff came from. It comes from prop 8 defense we’ve been discussing in this thread, since post 196. Did you forget your own defense too, and that’s why you refuse to actually state what it is? ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/257 "2010-08-19T20:03:50Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > What? > Look, just lose all the other crap. Tell us what actual, measurable harm is caused by same-sex marriage. That’s the crux of your argument and yet you won’t explain it. That’s pretty damn weak. That’s not the crux of my argument, sorry. That’s not even my argument. > [@waterj2](#): > > I’m beginning to suspect that **Aji** ’s purpose here isn’t to have an honest debate. I have repeated several times I do not want to participate in yet another SSM debate, so I fail to see the dishonesty. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > You are trying to defend opposition to SSM, which means you are trying to defend bigotry. Bigotry…you say it so often as if it meant what you intend. > [@](#): > > This is a constitutional republic; not mob rule. Do you deny that people are forced to abide to rules they don’t like? > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > So what you’re saying is, you can only get off by sodomizing infants— and only after you’ve drugged and bound them with duct tape to incapacitate them, so they can’t kick your ass while you’re trying to locate your penis? > > I disagree with your lifestyle, but admire your candor. So, we’re down to kindergarten insults. nice. You forgot that I dress them as Pinocchio before sodomising them. > [@Revtim](#): > > Reasonable as in “supported by reliable data and/or basic logic that isn’t obviously refuted with 10 seconds of thought”. Which refutes the harm alleged by the Prop 8 defender quoted earlier in the thread. > > And I’m sure it refutes this mysterious harm you refuse to actually state, giving you the benefit of the doubt that your argument isn’t just “a homo says what?” spoken quickly. And the judge of that is you. > [@](#): > > It comes from prop 8 defense we’ve been discussing in this thread, since post 196 > Did you forget your own defense too, and that’s why you refuse to actually state what it is? Since I personally didn’t make that statement, I failed to see the reason to defend it. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/258 "2010-08-19T20:09:01Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I have repeated several times I do not want to participate in yet another SSM debate, so I fail to see the dishonesty. Translation: I’m too much of a pussy to even try to rationalize my bigotry, because I know it wouldn’t stand up to any kind of logical scrutiny. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/259 "2010-08-19T20:26:52Z")
A coherent point can be expressed in a sentence or three. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433/260 "2010-08-19T20:31:57Z")
I recall another thread where someone claimed to have some kind of good reason against SSM, but also refused to actually state what it was. Anybody remember that? Was that **Ají** too, or is this “tactic” something taken up by multiple bigotry defenders? It seem like the logical last resort of a defenseless position, doesn’t it? I’m right, but I’m not going to tell you why! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-prop-8-supporters-also-fuck-you-dishonest-news-media/549433.md?page=14)