Why the fuck should Nader feel bad or apologize for anything? His campaign issues stood in stark contrast to Gore’s. He owed Gore nothing. And he was hoping to get 5% of the popular vote for crucial federal campaign funds for a more realistic 2004 run for the Green Party.
As for all of you who propose leaving, don’t let the Statue of Liberty hit you in the ass on your way out.
Um. Guys?
Nader didn’t hold a gun to anybody’s head and make them vote for him. He didn’t suddenly appear at the very end of the campaign and steal away committed Gore voters. The Gore campaign has had ample time to appeal to Nader voters, and they haven’t succeeded. It’s as simple as that.
I’m no great believer in Nader as a politician (the man understands “diplomacy” and “subtlety” about as well as a rabid porcupine in rut). And I’m thoroughly bummed about the idea of a Dubya presidency. But the fact remains that Gore lost (and I’m afraid the Fla. recount isn’t going to change this) because he didn’t attract enough votes in the right places.
Ironic, isn’t it? There was speculation that Gore might lose the popular vote but win the Electoral College. Now it looks like Dubya is going to lose the popular vote but win the EC… and it’s the EC what counts. Sucks, but at the present time it’s the law.
I came to a rather perturbing realization today. Even if Bush does now win Florida (good lord, we may not know for a week at best), I’m still safe. It’s my female, non-white, gay, or immigrant friends who need to leave the damn country. I’m safe; I should be here fighting for what I believe.
Incidentally, why is Nader bad for representing the extreme left (well, relatively speaking), but you have no problem with Buchanan representing the extreme right? Hell, Buchanan should have had a better shot than Nader (more money, more centrist party, actually won primaries in the past). Bush was better at getting the extremists to stay with him. Gore couldn’t do that. His own damn fault.
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Incidentally, why is Nader bad for representing the extreme left (well, relatively speaking), but you have no problem with Buchanan representing the extreme right?
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And why was it okay for Ross Perot to “steal” votes from Bush the Elder, but it’s not okay for Nader to do the same thing to Gore?
And what’s wrong with a third party? It “steals votes” from your guy? So maybe we should outlaw third parties? Maybe third parties should say, “Oh, we’re not going to win. Let’s not run.”? The Republicans were a third party once, but Abe Lincoln (Republican, ICYDK) won the presidency. A third party can win! But only if they run.
If Bush wins (and right now, at 05:41 PST, I’m still betting on Gore), he will know that the popular vote was not his. He’ll have to make some big concessions if he wants to keep Republicans in power. If Gore wins, he’ll know that he nearly lost because of Nader. He’ll have to make some concessions to the Green Party. Nader will be in a good position to promote his agenda.
“Oh, you’re so smart. What if everyone voted for Nader? What then?” Well, then he’d be president. If we don’t have third parties, then we’ll be in a situation similar to those countries that have one party. Third parties balance the entrenched forces. And one day a third party might win. It’s happened before.
So pound on third parties in general, and Nader in particular, if you want. But they are important to the political process.
I keep seeing shit about how we can kiss our rights goodbye in the event of a Bush victory on the boards. Well, not we as in any group that includes me, but we as in huge segments of the population. As I see it, the closeness of this election negates many of those fears. As small as the gay Republican demographic is, Bush realistically could have lost without their support. Gay independants that could be swung to Bush might have given him the popular vote.
There is no mandate for screwing over minorities in this country. A candidate needs every vote he or she can get.
I’m sorry, but the Republicans were never a third party. In their first national election in 1856, they were the only other major party running against the Democrats. The Whigs and The Free Soil Party- their two predecessors- did not field any candidates that year.
In 1860, the Republican Party and the Democratic Party were the two major parties. The Democratic Party split, resulting in three major candidates (and one ‘third’ party candidate, Bell of the Constitution Party). But the Republicans were never a third party.
Can I ask a stupid question? How the hell do we know that 100% of Nader’s votes would have gone to Gore? WE DON’T. If Gore loses, it is HIS fault. He lost his OWN FREAKING HOME STATE, for the love of God.
And I’m with Milo…if you’re seriously considering moving over ONE ELECTION, then go. With my blessings. Jesus Christ, folks…Bush is a moron, true. But he’s not the fucking AntiChrist.
Falcon, I swear that I love you. Thank you.
I’m still debating whether it would be worth starting a thread saying, “Hey- if Bush loses, what do I do with all of this Zyklon-B that I’ve been saving up?” to taunt those who doubt the uberFuhrer Bush. :rolleyes:
What the hell makes you think that Nader voters would have voted for Gore? Maybe, just maybe, they are people who would not have voted at all if Nader weren’t running. I voted for Browne. If all of us Browne voters in WI would have voted for Bush, he would have won. Well too fucking bad. I would not vote for Bush for anything because I disagree with his politics. Make sense? So don’t assume that Nader voters stole votes from Gore.
And fuck you too, Flymaster.
I see my state of Ohio went 60% Bush. It wasn’t my fault. Or Nader’s.
And correct me if I’m wrong, the President hasn’t been declared yet. Gore has 260 of the electoral votes to Bush’s 245.
Have to go with Falcon on this one, too.
And Bush is entertaining, if nothing else. Whatever happened to that Miss Texas The Globe was talking to a few months ago–wonder if she’s still talking about W’s and her fling? And who would be more understanding of the drug problem in this country than an ex-user?
Hey–gimme a break! I’m trying to make the best of this!
Actually, more voters apparently want Gore, as he is currently leading Bush in the national popular vote by more than 200,000 votes.
But I agree with your sentiment about Gore being responsible for losing Gore votes.
I also happen to think that a large percentage of people who voted for Nader are people who otherwise wouldn’t have voted at all on Tuesday. Thus the Nader effect on Gore’s popularity is not as strong as some may think.
I’m with drop. Letterman will have much better material with Bush in office. I dislike 'em both, FTR, but I dislike Bush more. My grandmother had it right when she said “They’re all a bunch of damn crooks.”
If only HALF of Nader’s supporters voted for Gore in Florida, he would have it in the bag. Only half. Are you saying EVERYBODY who voted for Nader wouldn’t have voted for anybody else?
I hope all you Nader supporters are happy. I hope your “principals” are comforting when Bush starts strip-mining. I hope all your “principals” give you rights, when Bush and his all Republican house begins the process of removing Roe V Wade. I hope Nader keeps you warm at night when you know that Bush is out there, happily signing on laws that could set this country back 10, 20, 30 years. And I hope y’all feel warm and cuddly inside when those laws go to a Conservative Supreme Court and are ruled Constitutional.
This was NOT the time for “Voting what you believe in”. You can do that when the stupidest man alive (Bush) is not running.
Bush solidified his base…is anyone talking about votes that Pat Buchanan took away from Bush? No…
Gore didn’t solidify his base. Nader votes knew the vote was close going into Tuesday(I assume they watch the news), yet they still chose Nader in relatively significant numbers in some states.
Oh but it is the time for voting what you believe in, pepper?
Take it easy, Chicken Little.
Gosh pepper, Bush is the stupidest man alive? So what does that say about ALL those who voted for him (and there were quite a lot as you know)?
Yep, I’ll be warm at night
Wow, this is so much like that whole Dewey beats Truman thing. Don’t you guys think that you should wait until the recount in Florida is done before you start bashing people? If I follow the US election system correctly, the 2.6 million votes that Nader got were not enough to sway anything in the electoral college. If you are that worried about Bush, just be thankful that Gore spent his last day before the election in Florida.
I so wanted to jump on the bandwagon in cursing out Nader, until I remembered just that.
All my republican friends were jumping up and down screaming “Fucking Perot, what an asshole, stuck us with Slick Willie”.
To which I replied, “Shut up. Bill won, George lost. Deal with it, ya big pussy.”
I absolutely do not want to give my republican friends the opportunity to feel as smug as I did then.