# Fuck you, right-wing, anti-American traitors! (the effort to stop Fahrenheit 9/11) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 14, 2004, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-right-wing-anti-american-traitors-the-effort-to-stop-fahrenheit-9-11/250205 "2004-06-14T00:18:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-right-wing-anti-american-traitors-the-effort-to-stop-fahrenheit-9-11/250205/41 "2004-06-14T03:01:09Z")
Well, now, **Brutus** , old chap, isn’t it entirely obvious that you already do care about a Moore film. Care rather a lot, actually. Really, you Tighty Righties are such an _emotional_ bunch. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-right-wing-anti-american-traitors-the-effort-to-stop-fahrenheit-9-11/250205/42 "2004-06-14T03:11:18Z")
Sorry, but this is yet more Radcon bullshit, trying to shup down any opposing voices in American public discourse. Maybe the film is good, maybe it’s crap, mayber a mix of both, but nothing is gained by the Pubbies. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Brutus_. > And if by some some twist of fate the propaganda peice is never released in any form, it’ll just go to show that the good-guys do sometimes win. But I doubt that’ll happen. No good can be served by stifling criticism of the government. Criticism is how we as citizens keep the government honest and keep it from going too far off the rails. Sorry, **Brutus** , your RadCon PC attitude is un-American. You are every bit as bad as **Reeder** in your inability to understand the the opposition has a right to be heard. In the United States, we’re supposed to be skeptical of authority, not lockstep followers of any party line. **Reeder** , knock off the anti-Bush hysteria because your lack of perspective makes you look like a brainless ninny who is unable to discern between the trivial and the serious. Frankly, both of you need a serious bitchslap with a book on critical thinking because the two of you are twins in mindless kneejerk reaction. I’m going to watch Moore’s film with a skeptical attitude, decide for myself how well he makes his case against Bush, and check for myself\*\* with other sources to verify of debunk Moore’s charges. Go thou and do likewise. Selah. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-right-wing-anti-american-traitors-the-effort-to-stop-fahrenheit-9-11/250205/43 "2004-06-14T03:16:28Z")
I want to see it! I hear Shrek is in it… ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-right-wing-anti-american-traitors-the-effort-to-stop-fahrenheit-9-11/250205/44 "2004-06-14T03:19:19Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Even if the fictitious work of Mssr.Moore never graces the silver screen, I’m pretty sure it would come out on DVD, be made available for download, etc. ‘Freedom of Speech’ does not equal ‘You must put this propaganda in the movie theaters or we are living in NAZI GERMANY!’. > > And if by some some twist of fate the propaganda peice is never released in any form, it’ll just go to show that the good-guys _do_ sometimes win. But I doubt that’ll happen. You gotta love capitalism, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-right-wing-anti-american-traitors-the-effort-to-stop-fahrenheit-9-11/250205/45 "2004-06-14T03:19:52Z")
How before a website is dedicated to ripping this movie apart (assuming there isn’t already one)? ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-right-wing-anti-american-traitors-the-effort-to-stop-fahrenheit-9-11/250205/46 "2004-06-14T03:33:46Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Criticism is how we as citizens keep the government honest and keep it from going too far off the rails. Hardly. _Voting_ is how we (try) to accomplish that. Criticism is but a tool that may (or may not, in the case of Moore) serve to help inform voters. > [@](#): > > Sorry, **Brutus** , your RadCon PC attitude is un-American. So now calling out people as ‘un-American’ is ok, just so long as you have quaffed the anti-Bush Kool Aid, huh? After all, only the ‘loyal opposition’ actually calls people ‘un-American’, though they cry and rant about how the Right is doing that. Funny. And ‘RadCon’? Do you morons just sit around all day to think these up? I find your DiSh attitude to be amusing. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-right-wing-anti-american-traitors-the-effort-to-stop-fahrenheit-9-11/250205/47 "2004-06-14T03:38:32Z")
Moore is just a jerk. If he was a poster here, I’m sure he’d get banned in no time. And no one would be arguing for a first amendment violation. ---
**Author:** ![cmason32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@cmason32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmason32)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-right-wing-anti-american-traitors-the-effort-to-stop-fahrenheit-9-11/250205/48 "2004-06-14T03:54:45Z")
I don’t understand the Moore hatred. BFC wasn’t an anti-gun documentary. Rather, it asks why we have such a high homicide rate - and it doesn’t blame guns. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-right-wing-anti-american-traitors-the-effort-to-stop-fahrenheit-9-11/250205/49 "2004-06-14T03:58:59Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Hardly. _Voting_ is how we (try) to accomplish that. Criticism is but a tool that may (or may not, in the case of Moore) serve to help inform voters. That’s total bullshit. Why do you think we have a First Amendment, anyway, and not just allow freedom of speech three months before an election. Free debate strengthens any position, and, if it goes against an administration enough, can drive Congress to more reasonable positions. This has happened in administrations of both parties. If you are claiming that freedom of speech is not a political good, except to drive voting, you are antiAmerican, independent of party. BTW, I suspect theater-owners want to show this movie because of critical acclaim, from Cannes, and mostly because it is going to make a lot of money. Anyone trying to stop them by threats or preventing people from entering, are no better than thugs and should be locked up for a long, long time. The First Amendment should not only prevent the government from keeping people from speaking, it must also force the government to stop the suppression of speech by illegal means. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-right-wing-anti-american-traitors-the-effort-to-stop-fahrenheit-9-11/250205/50 "2004-06-14T04:02:59Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Hardly. _Voting_ is how we (try) to accomplish that. Criticism is but a tool that may (or may not, in the case of Moore) serve to help inform voters. You’ve got much to learn, pal. The freedom of speech is enshrined in the Constitution for a reason, to allow public debate about issues important to the public good. Debate cannot be truly free if it doesn’t allow for open criticism of the government. There’s no point in voting if the citizenry is uninformed on the issues on the ballot. that’s why we have newspapers, TV, radio, and the Internet–you know, the marketplace of ideas that allows for discussion of every perspective, not the ones handed us by our masters. > [@](#): > > So now calling out people as ‘un-American’ is ok, just so long as you have quaffed the anti-Bush Kool Aid, huh? After all, only the ‘loyal opposition’ actually calls people ‘un-American’, though they cry and rant about how the Right is doing that. Funny. WTF are you talking about? I’m not calling you un-American for your political stance, something you seem unable to understand. contrary to what you’ve been told by Fox News, we have room in this country for many political camps. I’m calling you un-American because you seem to demand lockstep obedience to the government. Sorry, pal, if you want to live under that sort of authoritarian regime that squelches dissent, move to Saudi Arabia or North Korea. This is America, where we get to speak our minds. If you want to shut down all points of view that contradict your own, if you disapprove of the freedom to speak and more important to be heard, then you, sir, are no American. > [@](#): > > And ‘RadCon’? Do you morons just sit around all day to think these up? I find your DiSh attitude to be amusing. “RadCon”= Radical conservative. It’s been in public use for quite a while now. I use it in oppostion to real conservatism, which treasures liberty, small government, and no deficit spending. Real conservatives want to conserve American values, to preserve the American way of life. Your lot, the RadCons, are revolutionaries that embrace economic and social ideologies that are as loopy as anything dreamt up by their counterparts on the left. You people have stained the honorable name of the Republican party. And what’s DiSh mean? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-right-wing-anti-american-traitors-the-effort-to-stop-fahrenheit-9-11/250205/51 "2004-06-14T04:05:01Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > Dude, **Airman Doors**! You got _served_! Does that mean he’s going to dance? 'Cause I don’t really need to see that. Anyway, I’m a Moore fan, although I don’t take him too seriously. That said, I do have to applaud these far right trogolodytes for trying to get his film banned, because all that does is grant him more credibility. And Moore really needs all the credibility he can get. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-right-wing-anti-american-traitors-the-effort-to-stop-fahrenheit-9-11/250205/52 "2004-06-14T04:15:35Z")
> [@leander](#): > > As for Moore, I have found that once you sift through some of the nonsense and over-the-top bullshit in his films, there _is_ truth there. And if it takes a pompous, blowhard to shine a little light, then so be it. Well, that’s true. None of us will deny that. There’s also no denying that there’s an awful lot of misinformation in his films as well. Mix together lies, truth, and a biased worldview, and you have some pretty potent propaganda. At the risk of invoking Godwin, it is this mixture that made _Mein Kampf_ such a powerful piece of political rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-right-wing-anti-american-traitors-the-effort-to-stop-fahrenheit-9-11/250205/53 "2004-06-14T04:16:12Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > So now calling out people as ‘un-American’ is ok, just so long as you have quaffed the anti-Bush Kool Aid, huh? Are you comparing anti-Bush people to Jim Jones followers? People who question the government are mindless cult zombies? I don’t think so. > [@Brutus](#): > > After all, only the ‘loyal opposition’ actually calls people ‘un-American’, though they cry and rant about how the Right is doing that. Funny. The Right is being terribly un-American nowadays. I don’t think they (you) know what it means to be a patriotic American. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-right-wing-anti-american-traitors-the-effort-to-stop-fahrenheit-9-11/250205/54 "2004-06-14T04:47:22Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > There’s no point in voting if the citizenry is uninformed on the issues on the ballot. Exactly. And you are going to tell me with a straight face that a Michael Moore flick is going to serve to ‘inform’ the electorate? Puh-fucking-lease. That disgusting fat-body lives on lies, deceit, and time-honored propaganda techniques. By the way, you do know who [Michael Moore](http://www.moorelies.com/index.cfm) is, don’t you? You know, the guy who is known to [tell a fib or two](http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20020403.html) in his books and movies? Are you sure this is they guy you want to hold up as an example of ‘informing the electorate’? > [@](#): > > This is America, where we get to speak our minds. If you want to shut down all points of view that contradict your own, if you disapprove of the freedom to speak and more important to be heard, then you, sir, are no American. That’s some red herring you’ve got there, kid. Nothing was said about ‘shutting down all points of view that contradict’ my own. (Except by you, of course.) Tell me, is it easier ‘debating’ your opponents when you just make up their positions? **DING DING DING DING** And br’er **Voyager** proudly holds up his ticket on the DipShit Express, earned by yet another calling of ‘un-American’! Who will be our next lucky winner? > [@Equipoise](#): > > Are you comparing anti-Bush people to Jim Jones followers? Yes. Well, most of them. A few may actually have intellectually honest opposition to the man, but not many. > [@](#): > > People who question the government are mindless cult zombies? No. Well, not generally. Michael Moore fans are an exception to the rule. > [@](#): > > The Right is being terribly un-American nowadays. I don’t think they (you) know what it means to be a patriotic American. Damn, the Dipshit Express is filling up awfully fast…lets see…OK. You are up in 12B, next to **Reeder**. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-right-wing-anti-american-traitors-the-effort-to-stop-fahrenheit-9-11/250205/55 "2004-06-14T05:03:07Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Well, that’s true. None of us will deny that. > > There’s also no denying that there’s an awful lot of misinformation in his films as well. > > Mix together lies, truth, and a biased worldview, and you have some pretty potent propaganda. At the risk of invoking Godwin, it is this mixture that made _Mein Kampf_ such a powerful piece of political rhetoric. You’re missed Godwin a while back; Nazis already came up just a few posts into the thread. Which shows why I’m not particularly saddened at the thought of Moore’s movie not getting wide distribution. As we’ve seen in this thread, this kind of propaganda does nothing to promote rational thought, it simply polarizes people into an “Us vs. Them” mentality, shouting stupid labels at each other in an attempt to dismiss or undermine the other person’s entire viewpoint. And every single mention of Moore quickly devolves into the same thing; in a thread a while back about Moore’s simple-minded cry for attention at the Oscar ceremony, I had a poster repeatedly dismiss everything I said by saying I was “pro-Bush.” The reason so many of us want to “overthrow the government” is because they’ve gone past the point of simple political disputes and into the realm of doing great, but hopefully not irreparable, damage to the values and principles of the nation. Their policy has encouraged racism, xenophobia, homophobia, oppression, mistrust, and fear. They’ve done this by suppressing and manipulating information, and painting their enemies in broad strokes. Moore’s already admitted to suppressing the details about his distribution deal for the movie. This was in order to have people shrieking anti-corporation (Disney) rhetoric and claiming Moore’s right to free speech was being impunged. That’s manipulating people using fear, and that’s one of the tactics of the Bush administration. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-right-wing-anti-american-traitors-the-effort-to-stop-fahrenheit-9-11/250205/56 "2004-06-14T05:10:26Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Exactly. And you are going to tell me with a straight face that a Michael Moore flick is going to serve to ‘inform’ the electorate? Puh-fucking-lease. That disgusting fat-body lives on lies, deceit, and time-honored propaganda techniques. Are you aware of the contents of newspapers during the time the Federalist papers were written? Do you think the Founding Fathers were only protecting speech with no error? And I rather suspect the Bushies are crapping in their pants about it just because it is going to inform the electorate. How much of the electorate knew what Bush was doing when he heard about 9/11, and what he did afterwards? > [@](#): > > By the way, you do know who [Michael Moore](http://www.moorelies.com/index.cfm) is, don’t you? You know, the guy who is known to [tell a fib or two](http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20020403.html) in his books and movies? Are you sure this is they guy you want to hold up as an example of ‘informing the electorate’? Know all about that, and my conclusion is that Moore is more truthful than most presidents, regardless of party, and especially more truthful than the current one. But the whole point of free speech is that Moore makes movies, rightwingers make web sites, and the people have free access to information to decide. BTW, I saw Triumph of the Will in college, and nobody was out protesting - which is as it should be. You have a problem with that? > [@](#): > > And br’er **Voyager** proudly holds up his ticket on the DipShit Express, earned by yet another calling of ‘un-American’! Who will be our next lucky winner? I said > [@](#): > > If you are claiming that freedom of speech is not a political good, except to drive voting, you are antiAmerican, independent of party. Since you believe I am calling you an unAmerican, you must therefore believe that freedom of speech is not a political good. True or false? Nice of you not to quote my statement. > [@](#): > > Yes. Well, most of them. A few may actually have intellectually honest opposition to the man, but not many. So most of those opposed to Bush are like mindless relgious cultists, while those who swallow whatever he says are open minded. War is Peace. You would have made a damned fine Leninist. Ignorance is Strength. We’ve heard it all before. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-right-wing-anti-american-traitors-the-effort-to-stop-fahrenheit-9-11/250205/57 "2004-06-14T05:25:23Z")
This is WAY amusing. Please kids, carry on. :rolleyes: I guess I may just be the only one who doesn’t actually believe everything he reads/watches/sees. There is a veneer of absolute bullshit over everything media. The Bushies believe they’re right, the Lefties think they’ve the market cornered on truth, when in fact, very little is what it seems, and the pisser is, no one is ever likely to know the REAL truth (whatever THAT is). Yeah, Moore films may be chock-a-block with nonsense and drivel, so is the President (and ftr, it doesn’t matter which president). If we ever stopped fighting long enough to turn an examining eye toward the ACTUAL enemy (which, IMO is the bureaucracy under which we all live) the truth (whatever it is) would reveal itself. But alas, we’re locked in a life and death struggle to be the one most right about a given topic, and all these cocksuckers are making a killing behind keeping us fighting amongst ourselves. Sad. > [@Airman Doors](#): > > or that I’m appalled that the people of the United States have made a charlatan like Moore a rich man? Airman? Is that a serious statement? Religion has made FAR more charlatans rich than the media has. If Benny Hinn can fill stadiums, STADUIMS! Moore should have no problem filling seats in movie houses. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-right-wing-anti-american-traitors-the-effort-to-stop-fahrenheit-9-11/250205/58 "2004-06-14T05:37:31Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > Which shows why I’m not particularly saddened at the thought of Moore’s movie not getting wide distribution. Moore’s movie _is scheduled_ for wide distribution. Do you mean that it’s ok if theater owners are terrorized or intimidated into dropping the film? > [@SolGrundy](#): > > Moore’s already admitted to suppressing the details about his distribution deal for the movie. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-right-wing-anti-american-traitors-the-effort-to-stop-fahrenheit-9-11/250205/59 "2004-06-14T05:39:45Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Are you aware of the contents of newspapers during the time the Federalist papers were written? Do you think the Founding Fathers were only protecting speech with no error? Right. Well, are you quite finished with the drama? Great! Now show me where the gov’t is censoring Moore’s speech. What’s that, you can’t? You mean that all involved parties are private citizens, under no obligation to obey each other if they don’t want to? Well fuck, I guess you really don’t have an argument after all! ---
**Author:** ![Denis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5e9695/32.png) [@Denis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Denis)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2004, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-right-wing-anti-american-traitors-the-effort-to-stop-fahrenheit-9-11/250205/60 "2004-06-14T05:46:05Z")
**Brutus** , you’re funny. :wally [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-right-wing-anti-american-traitors-the-effort-to-stop-fahrenheit-9-11/250205.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-right-wing-anti-american-traitors-the-effort-to-stop-fahrenheit-9-11/250205.md?page=4)